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Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

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  • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

    Kep, I'm as liberal as the next guy, but I draw the line at prosecuting Dick Cheney. As amusing as that may be, it sinks the US into banana republic status. I can't stand the guy, but they operated close enough to the edge as to not break any laws. Basically they'd take a stupid position (detaining US citizens at the President's discretion for example) and then let the court process drag on for years until finally the SCOTUS ruled. In this particular example they slapped the Admin down pretty hard. Unless they continued to do the activity that the court specifically ruled against there's nothing to get them on. Could go after the Valerie Plame thing, but I'm guessing Scooter Libby who's already been pardoned takes the fall for that one.

    Regarding Gitmo, unfortunately that is going to remain a problem for every President until the last of the detainees pass away. Some of them are too dangerous to release, but can't be prosecuted under the law because the incriminating evidence was obtained through illegal means. There's no good options there that I can see.
    Legally drunk???? If its "legal", what's the ------- problem?!? - George Carlin

    Ever notice how everybody who drives slower than you is an idiot, and everybody who drives faster is a maniac? - George Carlin

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    • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

      Personally I haven't been thinking of military spending as foriegn policy...if it were, I would change my grade.

      I would posit evidence of a positive foriegn policy:

      Kim Jong Il takes over in 1994
      Relations between the Koreas warm
      The first summit between the Koreas occurs in 2000
      The Koreas jointly host and have a single team in the World Cup in 2002
      US calls North Korea axis of evil
      Relations with North Korea deteriorate, including firing across the border, sinking of ships and bombing islands
      Slow change towards positive foriegn policy...and now:


      North Korea Reportedly Ready to Halt WMD Tests

      Aug. 24: Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, right, shakes hands with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il outside Ulan-Ude in Byryatia.

      MOSCO – North Korea is ready to impose a moratorium on nuclear missile tests if international talks on its nuclear program resume, a spokesman for Russia's president said Wednesday after talks between the two leaders.

      Russian news agencies, meanwhile, reported that North Korean leader Kim Jong Il said the country is ready to resume talks "without preconditions."

      The six-sided talks have been long-stalled, but Kim's Russia trip comes as his country pushes to restart them. South Korea and Washington have demanded that the North first show its sincerity on fulfilling past nuclear commitments.
      Go Gophers!

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      • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

        Originally posted by Rover View Post
        Kep, I'm as liberal as the next guy, but I draw the line at prosecuting Dick Cheney. As amusing as that may be, it sinks the US into banana republic status. I can't stand the guy, but they operated close enough to the edge as to not break any laws.
        It shouldn't be liberal vs conservative. If anything, small "c" conservatives ought to have been far more appalled by the war crimes because they are, after all, supposed to believe in natural law, absolutes, and non-contextual morality.

        I agree with you completely that we'll never see a great power executive actually prosecuted by the ICC for violations of international law, but that's for the same reason that you'll never see a great power stopped by the UN Security Council -- for all the talk of international law, the system is run for the benefit of the big states at the end of the day.

        What the Bush administration really did was change the standard of comparison of American actions. By the international yardstick, of course, they were just garden variety thugs. But by the American yardstick, they are war criminals. The tragedy is that the American yardstick now no longer exists -- ironically, they were the ones who really destroyed our "exceptionalism," which used to be something we could be genuinely proud of.

        Hopefully as we get farther and farther away from the event it will just become a disgusting but isolated episode, rather than a precedent. The Brits had their concentration camps but particularly as their empire slipped away they returned to their ideals, mostly. We can do the same.
        Last edited by Kepler; 08-24-2011, 10:09 AM.
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        • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

          Originally posted by 5mn_Major View Post
          North Korea Reportedly Ready to Halt WMD Tests

          Aug. 24: Russian President Dmitry Medvedev, right, shakes hands with North Korean leader Kim Jong Il outside Ulan-Ude in Byryatia.

          MOSCO – North Korea is ready to impose a moratorium on nuclear missile tests if international talks on its nuclear program resume, a spokesman for Russia's president said Wednesday after talks between the two leaders.

          Russian news agencies, meanwhile, reported that North Korean leader Kim Jong Il said the country is ready to resume talks "without preconditions."

          The six-sided talks have been long-stalled, but Kim's Russia trip comes as his country pushes to restart them. South Korea and Washington have demanded that the North first show its sincerity on fulfilling past nuclear commitments.
          Speaking as the apparent Tinfoil Hat Howard Zinn of Foreign Policy, I don't believe this for a second. IMHO NK's nuclear weapons program will hum along at the same pace. It's completely disconnected from their diplomatic statements. Same with Iran.
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          • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            Speaking as the apparent Tinfoil Hat Howard Zinn of Foreign Policy, I don't believe this for a second. IMHO NK's nuclear weapons program will hum along at the same pace. It's completely disconnected from their diplomatic statements. Same with Iran.
            Iran and NK are very different animals...much of it due to motivations, geography and internal support. Iran's anger has significant support due to internal religious conservatives and perceived injury due to Israel, etc. North Korea is in planted in the middle of the hottest growing regional economy in the world; couple that with China and Russia (both of whom have vested interest in peace) being neighbors...motivations are different. We don't know what will happen. But the pressure to play nice is enormous...and with no constant escalation of tensions coming from the outside, I would say its more likely NK stays quiet which is a big improvement over it earning an axis of evil label. That's me.
            Go Gophers!

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            • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              Winding up Iraq in his first term is very good
              Hahahaha! I am pretty sure this isn't going to practically happen any time soon. Anyone who thinks the US Military isn't still running and will continue to the show in Iraq is a fool. The only thing that has happened since Obama took over is less soldiers are dying.
              My Four Favorite teams:
              RIT and anyone who is beating Canisius
              Cornell and anyone who is beating Harvard

              If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison

              I am not afraid of terrorism, and I want the Government to stop being afraid on my behalf. I understand that it will not be possible to stop all terrorist acts. I am not afraid!!!!

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              • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                Originally posted by MattS View Post
                Hahahaha! I am pretty sure this isn't going to practically happen any time soon. Anyone who thinks the US Military isn't still running and will continue to the show in Iraq is a fool. The only thing that has happened since Obama took over is less soldiers are dying.
                We are projected to have no US troops in Iraq after December 31. It's going to be hard to run the show from Kuwait.
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                • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                  Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                  We are projected to have no US troops in Iraq after December 31. It's going to be hard to run the show from Kuwait.
                  Your forgot the year.
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                  - Benjamin Franklin

                  Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

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                  • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                    Originally posted by joecct View Post
                    Your forgot the year.
                    2011.

                    The DOD is doing its best to maintain its budget, er, our security by pressuring Iraq to "ask" us to stay longer, but they are still negotiating the size of the bribe.
                    Last edited by Kepler; 08-24-2011, 02:10 PM.
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                    • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                      2011.

                      The DOD is doing its best to maintain its budget, er, our security by pressuring Iraq to "ask" us to stay longer, but they haven't bribed them enough yet.
                      I happen to agree with you. We created the mess and have no idea how to clean it up. Sounds like Dan Snyder.
                      CCT '77 & '78
                      4 kids
                      5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                      1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                      ”Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.”
                      - Benjamin Franklin

                      Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                      I want to live forever. So far, so good.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                        Originally posted by joecct View Post
                        I happen to agree with you. We created the mess and have no idea how to clean it up. Sounds like Dan Snyder.
                        Don't be silly. If we were Dan Snyder, we'd just keep pouring in good money after bad, never learning any lessons and blaming everyone else for our own mistakes.
                        Cornell University
                        National Champion 1967, 1970
                        ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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                        • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                          Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                          We are projected to have no US troops in Iraq after December 31. It's going to be hard to run the show from Kuwait.
                          "Projected" are reality are two very different things. My nephew is preparing to leave in less than a month for another year long tour of Basra. Some of his battalion have already left. So I am positive that the whole no US troops thing is a bunch of BS.
                          My Four Favorite teams:
                          RIT and anyone who is beating Canisius
                          Cornell and anyone who is beating Harvard

                          If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison

                          I am not afraid of terrorism, and I want the Government to stop being afraid on my behalf. I understand that it will not be possible to stop all terrorist acts. I am not afraid!!!!

                          Comment


                          • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                            Originally posted by MattS View Post
                            "Projected" are reality are two very different things. My nephew is preparing to leave in less than a month for another year long tour of Basra. Some of his battalion have already left. So I am positive that the whole no US troops thing is a bunch of BS.
                            Well, I am hopeful the Iraqi government will listen to their domestic constituents rather than KBR's dollars. OTOH, your nephew would probably be safer in Basra than Kandahar.

                            In either case, he has our thanks and our hopes he will come home safely.
                            Cornell University
                            National Champion 1967, 1970
                            ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
                            Ivy League Champion 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1972, 1973, 1977, 1978, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1996, 1997, 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2012, 2014, 2018, 2019, 2020

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                            • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
                              Well, I am hopeful the Iraqi government will listen to their domestic constituents rather than KBR's dollars. OTOH, your nephew would probably be safer in Basra than Kandahar.

                              In either case, he has our thanks and our hopes he will come home safely.
                              I hope the Iraq government does that too. But I doubt it. Heck, our own government who doesn't have nearly the problems that they do and we can't turn down bribe money so how can we expect the Iraqi's to?

                              Thanks. And you're correct about Basra. Earlier this year he didn't know if it was going to be Afghanistan or Iraq and I am selfishly happy it is Iraq. But like he told me a couple of weeks ago when we were talking about his deployment....."This is part of the reason why I joined the Army. To kick some terrorist a.s.s!"
                              My Four Favorite teams:
                              RIT and anyone who is beating Canisius
                              Cornell and anyone who is beating Harvard

                              If tyranny and oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy. - James Madison

                              I am not afraid of terrorism, and I want the Government to stop being afraid on my behalf. I understand that it will not be possible to stop all terrorist acts. I am not afraid!!!!

                              Comment


                              • Re: Global War on Terror III: Dick Cheney's Hague ICC Vacation

                                The US killed AQ's #2 man once again. I imagine the #3 guy is offered a promotion every time we kill #2 and he turns it down. That's one corporate ladder where I wouldn't want to get on the top rungs.

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