The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[walrus]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

We owned the banks, didn't we?

We own GM, did we get 50% of the Banks stocks also? We all know its only paper anyway, Obama and Congress are like Marionettes and you and I are never getting close to the strings

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Wow. You're lack of understanding is incredible. You obviously think that kids that CAN afford to pay the tuition come from broken homes, etc.

It's worse than that Scooby. I have no idea what you mean by this.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

It's worse than that Scooby. I have no idea what you mean by this.

Wow. I've always dreamed of living in a vacuum but I never knew it was possible.

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I'm still waiting for you to 'explain away' the meaning of that post. The nuance went way over my head. Use simple words, maybe a few of us neanderthals will learn something.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I'm still waiting for you to 'explain away' the meaning of that post. The nuance went way over my head. Use simple words, maybe a few of us neanderthals will learn something.

How many kids from broken homes can afford private school? How many poor kids can? Do you disagree that the majority of broken homes also tend to be poorer? Do they deserve an education? Seems to me we can easily balance the books if we just start weeding kids out using a combination of demographics and I.Q. scores. Is that what you want to do? We may be throwing money at the problem and it may not be working but at least we took a swing. The greatest injustice, however, is to compare private and public.

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Scooby, I think you're making my point for me. I never said anything about poorer kids not deserving an education. Quite the opposite in fact. Go back to my post #205, second paragraph. We spend in Michigan over $10,000 a year to educate a child in public schools. You weren't under the impression that a public school education was free, were you? How does that compare to private schools? I don't know. Knowing that private school teachers make less, and that salaries are a major (if not biggest) expense, I imagine that $10,000 is comparable to a private school tuition. That may be wrong, I really don't know. If you gave broken homes or poor kids vouchers for $10K couldn't some of them get that private school education?

edit: I just found one private school here in Michigan with tuition and fees for k-8 at $13,000 per year. Considering that Public schools have a virtual monopoly (85% of the market) giving vouchers would spur private school growth and drive the price down eventually.

2nd edit: I just found another 2 private schools, catholic, that came in under $10K. They offer tuition assistance as well, 27% of the students already get that.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Scooby, I think you're making my point for me. I never said anything about poorer kids not deserving an education. Quite the opposite in fact. Go back to my post #205, second paragraph. We spend in Michigan over $10,000 a year to educate a child in public schools. You weren't under the impression that a public school education was free, were you? How does that compare to private schools? I don't know. Knowing that private school teachers make less, and that salaries are a major (if not biggest) expense, I imagine that $10,000 is comparable to a private school tuition. That may be wrong, I really don't know. If you gave broken homes or poor kids vouchers for $10K couldn't some of them get that private school education?

How are those kids going to get to the private schools? I assume it is safe to say that they won't have easy transportation. How far away is the school? Aren't we just going to have two different kinds of private schools then? If kids from the inner city who have no parental involvement and are disruptive in the class is suzy q. from the rich burbs going to continue to go to school there?

You can't solve the problem with vouchers. All you do is move the nut to a different shell.

[WeWantMore]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

How many kids from broken homes can afford private school? How many poor kids can? Do you disagree that the majority of broken homes also tend to be poorer?

But there are programs like vouchers that enable poorer kids to afford private schools. In fact, in Milwaukee, 24% of students now get vouchers.

Guess who the shrillest opponent of vouchers are? That's right, the teachers unions.

All about the kids of course.

Such a voucher program also worked wonders in DC, yet in 2009 the program was killed by Obama and Congress. That was all about the kids too, I'm sure.

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

How are those kids going to get to the private schools? I assume it is safe to say that they won't have easy transportation. How far away is the school? Aren't we just going to have two different kinds of private schools then? If kids from the inner city who have no parental involvement and are disruptive in the class is suzy q. from the rich burbs going to continue to go to school there?

You can't solve the problem with vouchers. All you do is move the nut to a different shell.

If kids from the inner city who have no parental involvement and are disruptive in the class is suzy q, also from the inner city but wants to learn, going to get an education? The answer to both our questions is probably NO.
One private school in Detroit, Cornerstone Academy requires parental involvment. Tuition is under $5,000 and they have the best rating of Detroit schools. My point isn't to get all kids to one private school. If we gave vouchers to all the parents then these 'Cornerstone Academies' would pop up all over the city.

I think one reason for disruptive students is the lack of consequences. Public schools don't like to expel students because it cuts into thier bottom line. A private school wouldn't hesitate to drop a student if it was preventing others from learning. Otherwise the other students parents would pull them out and go somewhere else. No one pulls a kid out of public school just to go to another public school.

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Scooby, don't be stupid. Don't you get it yet? We give vouchers to the good students to go to private schools leaving only the bad ones in the public union run schools. After this happens then we can show just how bad non private schools are so the funding can be cut even more, the unions will be broken, and eventually they will be forced to shut down so it will just be privately run schools. Once more proving how the free market is superior.

[TimP]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

But there are programs like vouchers that enable poorer kids to afford private schools. In fact, in Milwaukee, 24% of students now get vouchers.

And I'll bet that the right-wing hick governor of Wisconsin has no problem with these vouchers being used at Christian schools, given his clear contempt for the first amendment.

[WeWantMore]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Scooby, don't be stupid. Don't you get it yet? We give vouchers to the good students to go to private schools leaving only the bad ones in the public union run schools.

Except that many voucher programs are based on financial need, not on merit.

And I'll bet that the right-wing hick governor of Wisconsin has no problem with these vouchers being used at Christian schools, given his clear contempt for the first amendment.

Hahaha. How in the world does he have contempt for the first amendment?

But anyways, the Supreme Court has already adressed the establishment clause issues with voucher schools. Long story short, no dice. Good effort though.

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Except that many voucher programs are based on financial need, not on merit.

Is that why examples of good students being stuck in poor schools were being used?

[WeWantMore]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Is that why examples of good students being stuck in poor schools were being used?

I have no earthly idea. You're the one who tried to demagogue it by saying all vouchers do is pull good kids out of public schools and leave bad ones to rot. That's not how the program works.

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I have no earthly idea. You're the one who tried to demagogue it by saying all vouchers do is pull good kids out of public schools and leave bad ones to rot. That's not how the program works.

Just taking going down the slippery slope.