The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Facts are facts. Just because they don't comport to your philosophy doesn't mean they aren't right. Nice red herring though

What facts? It ain't happening now and anyone who can't see that is blind. The Bush Tax Cuts had a net 0 impact on the economy. Meanwhile just about every State Government and the Federal Government are running up huge deficits.

You keep harping and harping but quite frankly the current tax system is heavily leaned in your favor and our economy is still crap. If what you were saying is true then we should be seeing some legitimate growth going on.

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Hong Kong

I know you don't realize that Hong Kong has one part of it's economy being free market and the rest was socialist or communist. The government owns all the land and leases it, which allows them to have an overall lower tax rate while still taking in the same or greater amounts than if there was private land ownership. They also provide many of those evil social welfare programs with the money they rake in. Citing them as a "free" market is short sighted and ignorant at best.

Or the US over time compared to the rest of the world.

And now you're just being purposely misleading and no, neither of these are citing examples. You're just throwing out names hoping no one is actually going to look up what you just listed.

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Facts are facts. Just because they don't comport to your philosophy doesn't mean they aren't right. Nice red herring though

And opinions are opinions. Guess which you posted.

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Facts are facts. Just because they don't comport to your philosophy doesn't mean they aren't right. Nice red herring though

Even assuming that somehow correlation=causation in your scenario...I'd still dare to ask you at what point we hit the other side of the Laffer Curve since you insist we haven't yet.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Even assuming that somehow correlation=causation in your scenario...I'd still dare to ask you at what point we hit the other side of the Laffer Curve since you insist we haven't yet.

Well, he'd argue that the point is reached when you cut taxes and revenue goes down. That's fine, but it ignores that there are ten thousand things affecting the economy, and there is never a case when all other things are held equal. Even if you somehow held all other monetary and fiscal factors equal, the world situation would continue to change. And anyway, Clinton raised taxes and revenue went up, so so much for the anecdotal argument.

The Laffer Curve is valuable as a cautionary tale about raising taxes so high they are self-defeating, but instead it was taken up as a bludgeon to always ratchet taxes down -- specifically, to never raise them on the wealthiest. A cut is always popular and so is never challenged. A raise is always unpopular so any fig leaf is enough to defeat it. That's not economic theory, it's just ideology.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Hey, (MinnFan) Boehner!!!

WhereTF are all the jobs????????????????????????????

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Hey, (MinnFan) Boehner!!!

WhereTF are all the jobs????????????????????????????

Obama stole them. You know how they are.

*****http://www.davidduke.com/images/looter24.jpg******

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Obama stole them. You know how they are.

Stole it from the white man.
*****http://67.18.219.83/image_hosting/web_pages/godofwine77/Co-Signs/Beer_looter.gif******

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Jesse Helms warned us it would be this way.

*****http://www.tamparacing.com/photopost/data/500/lootie.gif******

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

*****http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/library/news/2006/10/061011-d-6570c-001.jpg******
Guess which end of this pennisula has a capitalist economy, and which is communist? Now guess which has the higher standard of living?

The problem with your deck of cards analogy is that, like most socialists, you assume that there is a finite amount of wealth in the world. In reality, wealth is accumulated generation to generation. So you should have added cards to your deck. Otherwise, we would have no more wealth in the world today than we did back in the Dark Ages.

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

China is a capitalist society too, right?

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

And we're supposed to not notice how quickly you've abandoned your other examples?

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

And we're supposed to not notice how quickly you've abandoned your other examples?

I really didn't think you wanted to argue that black slaves in the south had it better than the white working class in the north. But go ahead, make your case.

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I really didn't think you wanted to argue that black slaves in the south had it better than the white working class in the north. But go ahead, make your case.

Close, but you mentioned Hong Kong, I gave reasons why it's not the capitalist utopia you probably think it is. You haven't responded to any of that, instead you've moved on to try and bring up another example like that never happened.

[Wol4ine]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Close, but you mentioned Hong Kong, I gave reasons why it's not the capitalist utopia you probably think it is. You haven't responded to any of that, instead you've moved on to try and bring up another example like that never happened.

For the record, I did not mention Hong Kong. But I'll give it a stab then sit back and watch you extoll the virtues of slavery.

The annual survey Economic Freedom of the World is an indicator produced by the Fraser Institute, a libertarian think tank which attempts to measure the degree of economic freedom in the world's nations. The index uses a definition of economic freedom similar to laissez-faire capitalism, This indicator has been used in peer-reviewed studies some of which have found a range of beneficial effects of more economic freedom. [1] [2] There are various criticisms, for example that the important part of economic freedom may be efficient rule of law and functioning property rights, rather than low taxes and a small state, and that the relationship between economic freedom and economic growth is not statistically robust. Economic Freedom of the World index has been more widely used than any other measure of economic freedom, because of its coverage of a longer time period.[3]

Here is the latest ranking I found;


Rank Country EconFreedom Index
1 Hong Kong 89.7
2 Singapore 87.2
3 Australia 82.5
4 New Zealand 82.3
5 Switzerland 81.9
6 Canada 80.8
7 Ireland 78.7
8 Denmark 78.6
9 United States 77.8
Hong Kong has been #1 for more than a decade. Now, I've never been to HK. But here are what others say about it;

From marimari.com

Hong Kong's continued economic success is thanks to the government's basic policy of minimum intervention and maximum support for businesses. Practices of low taxation, a free and fair market competition, an orthodox legal and financial framework, a fully convertible and secure currency, a highly efficient network of transport and communication, a skilled workforce, the enterprising spirit of locals, a high degree of internationalization, and cultural openness has opened doors to the country's economic growth and stability.

From Wiki

As one of the world's leading international financial centres, Hong Kong has a major capitalist service economy characterised by low taxation and free trade, and the currency, Hong Kong dollar, is the ninth most traded currency in the world.[5] Hong Kong has remained as the world's freest economy, according to Index of Economic Freedom since the inception of the index in 1995.[6