The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Here's the thing. They're going to scream TEH SOCIALISM!!!!11! exactly the same if we go back to Clinton or Eisenhower rates, so go all the way.

*****http://www.taxpolicycenter.org/taxfacts/Content/GIF/toprate_historical.gif******

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Socialism?

Nah, it's stealing. Socialism is the programs they're going to slash.

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Could we not say that the depressed wages are at least partly due to the influx of women into the workforce over the past 30 years on the basis of supply and demand (in this case, adding women = adding to the supply of available labor, thus decreasing the price of said labor)? Isn't the net result of more competition for jobs going to be lower salaries?

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

The Tea Party is spreading. It's been sighted in . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . Finland."

Talk about very foriegn countries...

Arizona legislature just passed a bill that would have allowed guns on university campuses. Big surprise...university police, the universities themselves, 80% of students and the overall Arizona public oppose the bill. The university says allowing guns on campuses would endanger employees, students and visitors, and it would be difficult for officers responding to a shooting to quickly identify a wrongdoer.

Wackier still...the only reason Brewer vetoed it was that it would have also resulted in guns being allowed in K-12 schools.

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

and it would be difficult for officers responding to a shooting to quickly identify a wrongdoer.

It's no different than any shooting: identify the shooter and arrest him/her. If the evidence points to the shooting being justified/in self defense, then the person is released without being charged with a crime.

Let's put this another way: if you're a lunatic bent on shooting up a campus ala the Virginia Tech shooter, how long will your shooting spree last if several of your classmates happen to be armed? If it's a "gun-free" campus / building, you only need to be concerned about armed security guards and/or police. If anyone can carry, then anyone can stop you should you decide to start a murderous rampage.

Of course, the flip side of that is liability issues - and potential for accidental discharges of weapons injuring/killing people. The bottom line is neither approach (allowing people to carry or not allowing them to do so) is perfect. There's simply far too much hysteria on both sides of the gun control issue.

[amherstblackbear]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

It's no different than any shooting: identify the shooter and arrest him/her. If the evidence points to the shooting being justified/in self defense, then the person is released without being charged with a crime.

Let's put this another way: if you're a lunatic bent on shooting up a campus ala the Virginia Tech shooter, how long will your shooting spree last if several of your classmates happen to be armed? If it's a "gun-free" campus / building, you only need to be concerned about armed security guards and/or police. If anyone can carry, then anyone can stop you should you decide to start a murderous rampage.

Of course, the flip side of that is liability issues - and potential for accidental discharges of weapons injuring/killing people. The bottom line is neither approach (allowing people to carry or not allowing them to do so) is perfect. There's simply far too much hysteria on both sides of the gun control issue.

The argument that more armed students would cut back on episodes like VaTech rests on the l a r g e assumption that students packing heat (a)will be in the right place at the right time, and (b) will have the presence of mind to respond calmly in a real crisis situation.

I mean, it's not impossible that things would work out the way that gun advocates claim, but it's not a foregone conclusion by any means. Episodes like Columbine and VaTech are horrific, no doubt. But they're huge exceptions to the norm. I'm not sold on making radical policy changes on the basis of high-profile but really really rare events. $.02

[5mn_Major]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

It's no different than any shooting: identify the shooter and arrest him/her. If the evidence points to the shooting being justified/in self defense, then the person is released without being charged with a crime.

Let's put this another way: if you're a lunatic bent on shooting up a campus ala the Virginia Tech shooter, how long will your shooting spree last if several of your classmates happen to be armed? If it's a "gun-free" campus / building, you only need to be concerned about armed security guards and/or police. If anyone can carry, then anyone can stop you should you decide to start a murderous rampage.

Of course, the flip side of that is liability issues - and potential for accidental discharges of weapons injuring/killing people. The bottom line is neither approach (allowing people to carry or not allowing them to do so) is perfect. There's simply far too much hysteria on both sides of the gun control issue.

I can't imagine that dorms filled with hazing, pranks, guns and drunken parties is worth the one in a million chance that a student would somehow successfully shoot a gunman on campus.

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Meh. I'm willing to make radical policy changes on the off chance that a few philosophy majors get gunned down in the inevitable blood baths. **** them and their ideas.

Subtracting forever-in-debt drunken college students off the face of the earth via gun-related Darwinism is a winner in my book.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I can't imagine that dorms filled with hazing, pranks, guns and drunken parties is worth the one in a million chance that a student would somehow successfully shoot a gunman on campus.

There is no way in a million years I'd send my children to college in a state that allowed guns on campus. I have a feeling I'm not the only one. You can let states pass eftard laws like this -- the invisible hand will take care of them PDQ.

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Vending machines stocked with morning after pills should be present in every dorm and rubber dispensers in every bathroom.

It's not FDR's "chicken in every pot", but it's a start.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

The Tea Party is spreading. It's been sighted in . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . Finland.

Rachel Maddow did a piece on the Tea Party last night. Seems that at all the Tax Day rallies this year the turn out was very very weak. Last year huge crowds. This year people like Tim Pawlenty and Michele Bachmann spoke to crowds of about................300 people.

It's dying.

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

It's no different than any shooting: identify the shooter and arrest him/her. If the evidence points to the shooting being justified/in self defense, then the person is released without being charged with a crime.

Let's put this another way: if you're a lunatic bent on shooting up a campus ala the Virginia Tech shooter, how long will your shooting spree last if several of your classmates happen to be armed? If it's a "gun-free" campus / building, you only need to be concerned about armed security guards and/or police. If anyone can carry, then anyone can stop you should you decide to start a murderous rampage.

Of course, the flip side of that is liability issues - and potential for accidental discharges of weapons injuring/killing people. The bottom line is neither approach (allowing people to carry or not allowing them to do so) is perfect. There's simply far too much hysteria on both sides of the gun control issue.

Things I saw in my undergrad days:
People sledding down hills on lunch trays with a busy road at the bottom
Guys getting in fights after brushing each other on a frat house floor
Guys having keg jumping contests on ice skates on a frozen backyard "rink"
Guys taking a 10-0 loss in "d" level co-ed intramurals like a loss in the Stanley Cup finals
People trying to touch the bonfire during homecoming weekend
People drinking til they puke, then rallying to drink even more til the black out.

Maybe it's just me, but I don't see how allowing firearms for people who pull that kind of crap is responsible legislation. I'm all for protecting the 2nd amendment's right to gun ownership, but I don't think adding firearms to a setting with thousands of hormone ridden teenagers cramped together is a wise decision.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Rachel Maddow did a piece on the Tea Party last night. Seems that at all the Tax Day rallies this year the turn out was very very weak. Last year huge crowds. This year people like Tim Pawlenty and Michele Bachmann spoke to crowds of about................300 people.

It's dying.

Which sucks, because one central concern -- the debt is out of hand -- NEEDS a pressure group to hold the government's feet to the fire and give them a reason not to kick the can down the road. That was the right message, it just had a really loathsome messenger.

It would be nice to see moderate and liberal protests in favor of balanced budgets in order to save the very programs that will go under when austerity measures are the only choice left. For that matter, it would be great to see moderate and liberal groups re-engaging in politics, rather than ceding the field of grassroots political activity to the trogs.

More to the point, real rallies -- not just navel gazing on Kos or whatever the flavor of the month "take back the night" college cause is -- force participants to talk to strangers with overlapping but non-identical concerns, and that is where lasting coalitions based on compromise are born. The left is always in danger of either fracturing into a million purist special interests or coagulating into a single amorphous, unintelligible glob of politically correct goop. Serious political activity involving adults who have actual jobs and a diversity of opinions can help them be relevant to the 90% of the electorate who aren't just in it as a way to skip class or get back at their parents.

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I'm all for protecting the 2nd amendment's right to gun ownership, but I don't think adding firearms to a setting with thousands of hormone ridden teenagers cramped together is a wise decision.

Depends on what the goal is.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Depends on what the goal is.

Fair point. Give them guns at Liberty and close the campus.