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  • #61
    Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

    Originally posted by Handyman View Post
    I dont know where those numbers come from or how they figured them out, but around here there is no way a new public school teacher makes 6k more to start than a private school teacher. And the 38k to start is ridiculous, I have a teacher friend that has been teaching for 4 years and he doesnt make that. (and it is laughable that the private school counterpart makes 10k less)

    I don't know what the criteria was to put the numbers together but based on my (albeit limited) experience in the Twin Cities and the surrounding Burbs I call BS. (until I see what went into the numbers)
    Well, I guess you would know better than the National Center for Education Statistics.

    Being that it is a government agency, I would expect that their bias (if any) would be to make the government system look better than it is, not worse. The $10k difference does match up with some of my friends' experience when looking into teaching jobs. The private schools can set their salaries lower and still get good teachers, because they know that the attraction of working with better students from better home situations (and fewer disciplinary problems) is worth something to the applicants, too.
    If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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    • #62
      Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

      Why is that? I don't know any private school teachers but that just seems stupid. Private schools can hire the best teachers and have endowments and no districts to restrict their spending...why would they not try and buy the best teachers they can? I mean around here you would have to think Cretin-Derham Hall, Hill Murray and Benilde-St. Margaret would have to justify their tuition prices somehow besides good athletics and buildings.
      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
      -aparch

      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
      -INCH

      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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      • #63
        Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

        Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
        Well, I guess you would know better than the National Center for Education Statistics.

        Being that it is a government agency, I would expect that their bias (if any) would be to make the government system look better than it is, not worse. The $10k difference does match up with some of my friends' experience when looking into teaching jobs. The private schools can set their salaries lower and still get good teachers, because they know that the attraction of working with better students from better home situations (and fewer disciplinary problems) is worth something to the applicants, too.
        I never said they were biased, I said I called BS until I saw what went into the numbers. My scanning of the chart didn't say the criteria that went in...are they counting benefits and pension or just dollar amounts? (it shows bonuses but that is it) That is the type of stuff I mean. Averages can be skewed, maybe these were too.

        I know what I am going to make when I get a job, and it is going to be LESS than those numbers from 07-08. Now I may not have gone to Cornell like you did, but that tells me there is more to it than just a spreadsheet can say. I can only go by what I have seen myself hence why I said "albeit limited" in my post.

        I am just looking for info, I am not arguing either way so please take your condescension somewhere else.

        edit: Lynah, good point on teachers taking less to teach "better" kids I never thought of it that way. Makes a lot of sense.
        Last edited by Handyman; 02-21-2011, 02:02 PM.
        "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
        -aparch

        "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
        -INCH

        Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
        -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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        • #64
          Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

          Originally posted by LynahFan View Post
          The private schools can set their salaries lower and still get good teachers, because they know that the attraction of working with better students from better home situations (and fewer disciplinary problems) is worth something to the applicants, too.
          This is what I've heard also, good kids makes for an easier time, the kids are motivated and the parents are attentive. I'm amazed when I see what goes on at my kids high school. I don't know if its a majority or not but I'd say alot of parents could care less. Good kids, smart kids getting grades that are just unacceptable, its not the teachers fault, the parents are not involved at all.
          I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

          Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

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          • #65
            Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

            Originally posted by walrus View Post
            This is what I've heard also, good kids makes for an easier time, the kids are motivated and the parents are attentive. I'm amazed when I see what goes on at my kids high school. I don't know if its a majority or not but I'd say alot of parents could care less. Good kids, smart kids getting grades that are just unacceptable, its not the teachers fault, the parents are not involved at all.
            I had to do conferences while I student taught at Minneapolis South last year...I taught 4 class periods, I did no more than 5 conferences TOTAL! The classes had 20-30 kids per section...that is ridiculous. (yes I know, urban school, different demographics, but STILL)

            I am taking a class on Public Policy right now (it is required for the Masters) and our prof showed us a stat that 88% of the time students spend away from schools. they need to be learning, and given the resources to learn or prepare to learn during that 88%. Too many parents these days send the kids to school and expect the teachers to do everything for them or the schools to do their jobs. Well there just isnt the money or the time to do that.
            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
            -aparch

            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
            -INCH

            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

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            • #66
              Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

              Originally posted by walrus View Post
              This is what I've heard also, good kids makes for an easier time, the kids are motivated and the parents are attentive. I'm amazed when I see what goes on at my kids high school. I don't know if its a majority or not but I'd say alot of parents could care less. Good kids, smart kids getting grades that are just unacceptable, its not the teachers fault, the parents are not involved at all.
              Yeah - this is why it's really not that fair to do a comparison of public vs. private teachers. If ALL schools were private, then the low-end ones would still have to pay their teachers more to put up with the headaches that entails, just as the public ones do today. So while public schools may have higher salaries today, at least some of that is probably just market forces at work, rather than a stranglehold of unfair competition by the teachers' unions. (I know, I know, I'm conservative, so I'm supposed to think Unions are evil, but some conservatives have open minds - honest!)
              If you don't change the world today, how can it be any better tomorrow?

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              • #67
                Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                Why is that? I don't know any private school teachers but that just seems stupid. Private schools can hire the best teachers and have endowments and no districts to restrict their spending...why would they not try and buy the best teachers they can? I mean around here you would have to think Cretin-Derham Hall, Hill Murray and Benilde-St. Margaret would have to justify their tuition prices somehow besides good athletics and buildings.
                I guess it's all a product of the area you live in, but I don't think the majority of private schools are in the mold of the ones you mention there. At least for me, the idea of private schools conjures up the idea of a religious school that has to tough things out just to get by, rather than the dominant sporting/academic power of the region.

                And for what it's worth, I have utterly no problem with public school teachers making more. Both public and private teachers knew the deal going in. I just think it demonstrates the difficult of doing across the board comparisons, doesn't it?

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                • #68
                  Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                  Originally posted by WeWantMore View Post
                  And for what it's worth, I have utterly no problem with public school teachers making more. Both public and private teachers knew the deal going in. I just think it demonstrates the difficult of doing across the board comparisons, doesn't it?
                  Definitely...earlier this year I got in arguments with people saying teachers in rural WI were making plenty of money and how that proves all teachers do well and should just deal with. Well rural WI and urban Minneapolis are two different animals. Just like I know cops that work in Eden Praririe and other cops that work DT Minneapolis, even if the pay was the same (and it isnt from what I can tell) it is easier to swallow making say 40k to work in EP than it would be to make 40k DT. (those numbers are just random)

                  Like I said the other day, I am not pro Union but workers are better off if they are around than if they weren't. They are not in any way close to perfect, but they also arent evil. I think people put too much stock in them on both sides of the aisle.
                  "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                  -aparch

                  "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                  -INCH

                  Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                  -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                  Comment


                  • #69
                    Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                    Originally posted by geezer View Post
                    It shouldn't be shocking, but it is: These are school teachers! Step one needs to be required remedial education.
                    I know, it's from Hot Air, but I haven't seen anyone else willing to publish the actual photos.
                    I'd say this hurts their chances of getting tenure at the new National Institute for Civil Discourse

                    The University of Arizona announced today that it is establishing a civility institute, inspired by the Tucson shooting rampage that left Rep. Gabrielle Giffords severely wounded and six people dead.

                    Former presidents Bill Clinton and George H.W. Bush will serve as honorary chairmen for the National Institute for Civil Discourse.

                    The non-partisan center will focus on research, education and policy about civility in public discourse.

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                    • #70
                      Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                      Also, I sure hope the protester that made this sign isn't a history major/teacher.

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                      • #71
                        Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                        Originally posted by geezer View Post
                        It shouldn't be shocking, but it is: These are school teachers! Step one needs to be required remedial education.
                        I know, it's from Hot Air, but I haven't seen anyone else willing to publish the actual photos.
                        I'm curious how you know that these are school teachers?
                        "This world is your world. Take it easy, but take it." - Woody Guthrie

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                        • #72
                          Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                          So the Daily Show was in town today, doing a bit comparing Madison to Cairo. Hilarity evidently ensued:


                          Notice Jon Oliver at the 30 second mark or so.

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                          • #73
                            Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                            Chances that a drunk Sconnie tried to * the camel?
                            "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
                            -aparch

                            "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
                            -INCH

                            Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
                            -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

                            Comment


                            • #74
                              Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                              Originally posted by Carter View Post
                              I'm curious how you know that these are school teachers?
                              Exactly. I think that attributing these protests solely to teachers is way off the mark. Just because they called in sick doesn't mean they are down there. I was there this weekend and I'm not a teacher. People from all walks of life are down there, union or not (I'm not). Even members of the exempted groups (firefighters, law enforcement) are down there in solidarity with the protesters.
                              Randy Schmidt should be / has been fired.
                              Exhibit A | Exhibit B

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                              • #75
                                Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                                Originally posted by icebadger View Post
                                Exactly. I think that attributing these protests solely to teachers is way off the mark. Just because they called in sick doesn't mean they are down there. I was there this weekend and I'm not a teacher. People from all walks of life are down there, union or not (I'm not). Even members of the exempted groups (firefighters, law enforcement) are down there in solidarity with the protesters.
                                Some of the people in the same fix are the housekeepers.
                                "This world is your world. Take it easy, but take it." - Woody Guthrie

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