The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

“Most people understand that Washington doesn’t have a revenue problem, it has a spending problem,” Cantor told “The Early Show” on CBS. “We can’t raise taxes. That was settled last November during the elections.”

Ryan voiced the same sentiment on ABC’s “Good Morning America.” He said, “We don’t have a problem with our budget because Americans don’t pay enough taxes. We have problems with our budget because we spend too much money.”

Yeah, a "balanced" approach is going to pass.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Yeah, a "balanced" approach is going to pass.

This is the equivalent of Dems wailing "what about the chillllllllllllllllllllldren?!" whenever anybody has the temerity to mention social spending levels are unsustainable. Plus, Cantor has people whispering in his ear that he could be president someday (these are the same people who assume the Redskins will go 12-4 every year -- NoVa has delusions of grandeur almost as unwarranted as Boston's) so you are never, ever going to get anything deviating from the party line from him.

Change is gonna come, either voluntarily or by the cold equations.

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Absolutely, although I would think that if we truly had a real balanced budget (say, running right at zero or only fractionally in the red for ten years) we'd have all sorts of healthy things going on in the rest of the economy that would bring us longterm economic benefits.

If we could get even a little into the black (permanently, not just a one time bookkeeping trick) and applied all surplus to paying down the debt we'd have a virtuous circle -- every year there would be less debt interest hence greater surplus hence greater pay down of the debt...

To dream ... the impossible dream ...
To fight ... the unbeatable foe ...
To bear ... with unbearable sorrow ...
To run ... where the brave dare not go ...
To right ... the unrightable wrong ...
To love ... pure and chaste from afar ...
To try ... when your arms are too weary ...
To reach ... the unreachable star ...

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

This is the equivalent of Dems wailing "what about the chillllllllllllllllllllldren?!" whenever anybody has the temerity to mention social spending levels are unsustainable. Plus, Cantor has people whispering in his ear that he could be president someday (these are the same people who assume the Redskins will go 12-4 every year -- NoVa has delusions of grandeur almost as unwarranted as Boston's) so you are never, ever going to get anything deviating from the party line from him.

Change is gonna come, either voluntarily or by the cold equations.

Scooby hasn't reached a point where he can stare at the cold hard reality as we have.

[MinnFan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Change is gonna come, either voluntarily or by the cold equations.

On that note. Some potential consequences if we continue on the path we're on.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Scooby hasn't reached a point where he can stare at the cold hard reality as we have.

Yeah, yeah, that's me. Capt. Fantasy Land.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

On that note. Some potential consequences if we continue on the path we're on.

It makes me shake my head, though, that the same person who wrote (and presumably 90% of the people who read) this article will with their dying breath rasp "no new taxes!" The disconnect with reality is every bit as stunning at the Kossites who refuse to cut benefits. Even moreso, perhaps, since at least the Kossites can be excused by having different things on their mind. This writer knows full well where we are headed, but will never admit that his own hidebound philosophy is half the cause.

It's the height of irony, since the only real way the rich could lose in our system is the kind of financial disaster that adherence to Reaganomics guarantees. They are spending millions to save themselves billions to ultimately cost themselves (and the rest of us) trillions. Bizarre.

[MinnFan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

It makes me shake my head, though, that the same person who wrote (and presumably 90% of the people who read) this article will with their dying breath rasp "no new taxes!" The disconnect with reality is every bit as stunning at the Kossites who refuse to cut benefits. Even moreso, perhaps, since at least the Kossites can be excused by having different things on their mind. This writer knows full well where we are headed, but will never admit that his own hidebound philosophy is half the cause.

It's the height of irony, since the only real way the rich could lose in our system is the kind of financial disaster that adherence to Reaganomics guarantees. They are spending millions to save billions to cost themselves trillions. Bizarre.

You have to keep in mind though that even if you do raise taxes you are only going to collect 19% of GDP anyways. To me that argues for keeping taxes lower in an effort to try to boost the GDP side of the equation.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

You have to keep in mind though that even if you do raise taxes you are only going to collect 19% of GDP anyways. To me that argues for keeping taxes lower in an effort to try to boost the GDP side of the equation.

Even if this is true, and like every rhetorical standard it may simply be "validated by infinite repetition," the real indicator of economic health is median wealth, not mean wealth. We tried trickle down and it failed spectacularly. At the very least, we can return to a genuinely progressive tax structure, particularly since it will be middle class entitlements that get hacked.

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

You have to keep in mind though that even if you do raise taxes you are only going to collect 19% of GDP anyways.

Seriously, you've been bringing up this supposed argument for years now. And it still lacks just as much credability as it did the first hundred times you've spouted it off.

Get some new talking points. Please.

[MinnFan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Even if this is true, and like every rhetorical standard it may simply be "validated by infinite repetition," the real indicator of economic health is median wealth, not mean wealth. We tried trickle down and it failed spectacularly. At the very least, we can return to a genuinely progressive tax structure, particularly since it will be middle class entitlements that get hacked.

Take a look at the article I posted earlier to see how well the lower classes did under Reagan. All wealth transfer does is make people dependant to gov't. The poverty rate was cut in half in the 15 years prior to the "Great Society". Its has remained constant after its inception eventhough we've spent trillions trying to get rid of poverty.

How is our tax system not progressive enough when 47% of the population doesn't pay into begin with? Honestly, should 60% not pay anything? The top 1% pay 40% of the taxes while only making 20% of the income. How much more should they pay? How do you increase that amount and still keep them here. They certianly are the most mobile class.

To me it comes down to justice. I just don't think its just to say to someone that by simply doubling their production (and thereby already providing a service their fellow man) you are going to quadruple their taxes.

[MinnFan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Seriously, you've been bringing up this supposed argument for years now. And it still lacks just as much credability as it did the first hundred times you've spouted it off.

Get some new talking points. Please.

I've shown how its true over time. How about you show me something that refutes that?

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I've shown how its true over time. How about you show me something that refutes that?

How about any of a number of other countries that have far higher tax rates? Or are you saying that America is some special phenomenon whereby it's subject to some economic law that taxes collected always = 19% of GDP?

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Actually, my post was to highlight that this "deficit reduction plan" was nothing of the sort. It took money from programs that might have produced results (fine, that's going to happen, I'll deal with it) but at the same time we backed a truckload of cash up to the Pentagon and left it there. How about rather than using the extra $5 billion from those programs, the Pentagon find that $9 Billion that's been "missing" for a few years (or the other $9 billion that they "lost") and either give that back to the programs or use it to help pay down the debt. But let's not keep throwing money at the Pentagon.

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Take a look at the article I posted earlier to see how well the lower classes did under Reagan. All wealth transfer does is make people dependant to gov't. The poverty rate was cut in half in the 15 years prior to the "Great Society". Its has remained constant after its inception eventhough we've spent trillions trying to get rid of poverty.

How is our tax system not progressive enough when 47% of the population doesn't pay into begin with? Honestly, should 60% not pay anything? The top 1% pay 40% of the taxes while only making 20% of the income. How much more should they pay? How do you increase that amount and still keep them here. They certianly are the most mobile class.

To me it comes down to justice. I just don't think its just to say to someone that by simply doubling their production (and thereby already providing a service their fellow man) you are going to quadruple their taxes.

How about making your corporate friends pay ANYTHING in taxes (rather than sucking us dry with corporate welfare).