The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: ...and god help you if you drive a VW

In other words, Boehner sold out. #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Great budget deal.

Things that were cut:

– Special Supplemental Nutrition Program for Women, Infants and Children (WIC): $504 million
– State and local law enforcement: $415 million
– Community oriented policing services (COPS): $296 million
– Green jobs innovation fund: $40 million
– Community health centers: $600 million
– Dislocated worker assistance: $125 million
– Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration (SAMSHA): $45 million
– Occupational Safety and Health Administration (OSHA): $49 million
– IDEA (special education): $16 million
– Infectious disease prevention: $277 million
– National Institutes of Health: $260 million

Especially hard hit are the Departments of Transportation, Housing and Urban Development, Commerce, Justice, Labor and Health and Human Services. They all lose billions of dollars in funding. Almost $3 billion for high-speed rail funds are cut, along with roughly $3 billion for highway construction and $6.2 billion in Department of Defense construction projects.

Social safety net programs are not spared. WIC, a program that uses federal money to subsidize the food and nutrition needs of children from low-income families, is cut by more than $500 million.

Grants to states that help pay for drinking water infrastructure projects are cut by $1 billion.

So spending that might actually lead to jobs was cut. But I'm sure there's some good news in all this.

The Pentagon would end up with a boost of about $5 billion above last year's level.

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[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Yes, Boehner "sold out" to reality. Just as Obama did. Just as every politician interested in more than just posturing has done, through all world history.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Priceless, what did you expect? All you need to do is look at Ryan's budget and you know. His budget cuts something like 7 trillion in 10 years from the debt on the backs of soon to be Grandma and Grandpa's? Well, you can do the same thing cutting defense to 2001 levels and repealing the Bush Tax Cuts. Heard that last night.

Yeah, that's America for ya.

Yes, Boehner "sold out" to reality. Just as Obama did. Just as every politician interested in more than just posturing has done, through all world history.

It's time for these Republicans to start doing what they say so people can actually see what they are. We all know what the Democrats are, a bunch of sniveling wimps.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Priceless, good things and important things are going to get cut. Success is not going to be measured by how much spending we can protect. It's going to be measured by restoring sanity to the tax structure and to national priorities while we also make large cuts in lots and lots and lots of popular, worthwhile programs.

I see your "people are going to suffer" and raise you "we're going broke."

1. Means test everything. End all entitlements for the middle and upper class.
2. End the Warfare State -- cut the DOD by 50%.
3. Roll back the tax structure to the day before Reagan took office.
4. Uncap all payroll taxes (even better, just bump taxes across the board by 15% and end payroll taxes).

Everybody will be furious, but it's the only way. The day the national debt hits $0 we can all start fighting about how best to drive it through the roof again.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Priceless, good things and important things are going to get cut. Success is not going to be measured by how much spending we can protect. It's going to be measured by restoring sanity to the tax structure and to national priorities while we also make large cuts in lots and lots and lots of popular, worthwhile programs.

I see your "people are going to suffer" and raise you "we're going broke."

1. Means test everything.
2. End the Warfare State -- cut the DOD by 50%.
3. Roll back the tax structure to the day before Reagan took office.
4. Uncap all payroll taxes (even better, just bump taxes across the board by 15% and end payroll taxes).

Everybody will be mad, but it's the only way.

Only the stuff in Ryan's plan will happen. And you know it. There is no way in hell taxes will be raised on the rich. No way.

[amherstblackbear]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I see your "people are going to suffer" and raise you "we're going broke."

The IMF agrees.

I take Priceless's point more as a comment on the utter worthlessness of the Democratic Party. Something does need to be done. Ryan is only a "hero" because he's doing something. It doesn't even matter that he's not doing it particularly well. At all. It's just that the Democrats have given him a monopoly.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

The IMF agrees.

I take Priceless's point more as a comment on the utter worthlessness of the Democratic Party. Something does need to be done. Ryan is only a "hero" because he's doing something. It doesn't even matter that he's not doing it particularly well. At all. It's just that the Democrats have given him a monopoly.

Obama is supposed to end that today with a real proposal. Well see.

Here's the thing about the Ryan Plan. If it is terrible and it's the only plan, then it's also the best plan. Until there is a genuine competitive plan (and not "green jobs and high speed rail," but a real plan with both deep cuts and large tax hikes), throwing abuse at Ryan is just a delaying tactic. This was true when the GOP was just stonewalling on health care beause they had no serious alternative, and it's true for the Dems now.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Obama is supposed to end that today with a real proposal. Well see.

Here's the thing about the Ryan Plan. If it is terrible and it's the only plan, then it's also the best plan. Until there is a genuine competitive plan (and not "green jobs and high speed rail," but a real plan with both deep cuts and large tax hikes), throwing abuse at Ryan is just a delaying tactic. This was true when the GOP was just stonewalling on health care beause they had no serious alternative, and it's true for the Dems now.

Doesn't matter. The only real alternative is to cut defense and repeal the Bush tax cuts and both are non-starters. Raising taxes is pure poison for any reelection bid and all someone has to say is "two wars" or "Libya" and the defense budget gets passed with a raise.

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Yeah plus it is kind of hard to cut the DOD when you are raising the funds the Pentagon gets. None of these guys actually care about the debt that is why there is no talk of ending the wars. (or ending the tax cuts) It is all double talk and BS and no matter how much some people choose to ignore it this "compromise" does nothing but show that in a nice big spotlight.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Doesn't matter. The only real alternative is to cut defense and repeal the Bush tax cuts and both are non-starters. Raising taxes is pure poison for any reelection bid and all someone has to say is "two wars" or "Libya" and the defense budget gets passed with a raise.

We'll agree to disagree, but I'd add if you begin with those assumptions then of course you are going to lose. Bankruptcy changes a lot of things. Put it this way -- defense spending is going to go down dramatically between now and 2025. It's only a question of whether it goes down like the US after WW1 or it goes down like the Russians after 1989.

We'll see. If Obama's proposal is just one more "kick the can down the road," then we can all boo him off the stage together.

What are we running in deficit, about 30% of the budget per year? That means raise revenues 15% and cut spending 15%. Or inflate our way out of it and have stagflation* that makes the Oil Shock look like a day at the beach.

* while this would be terrible, it would have the advantage of taking the rest of the world down with us. It would have the disadvantage that economic crises inevitably provoke political and military crises. Taiwan would look like a nice, ripe cherry to a Beijing regime about to go under.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

President Obama's original budget request would have given the Treasury Department money to hire additional agents for the Internal Revenue Service. The Republicans killed that provision. "The Obama administration has sought increased federal funding for the Internal Revenue Service (IRS) -- money that could be used to hire additional agents to enforce the administration's agenda on a variety of issues," the Speaker's office announced. "This increased funding is denied in the agreement."

It's true, by the way: Hiring more IRS agents would have allowed the Obama administration to enforce its agenda, insofar as its agenda is to make sure that people don't cheat on their taxes. Does this mean Republicans now support tax evasion?

Why? Because for every dollar the IRS spends on audits, liens, and property seizures, the government brings in about $10. If the goal is reducing the deficit, undermining the agency that collects revenue doesn't make any sense at all. Indeed, the Obama administration pushed to increase the IRS's budget precisely because it will reduce the budget shortfall Republicans pretend to care about.

http://www.washingtonmonthly.com/arc..._04/028904.php

And the Democrats AND OBAMA caved on this. And you honestly believe they're going to fix the budget with ANYTHING but Ryan's plan? We can't even do a dollar for 10 swap with the Republicans so how in the hell do you believe they will raise taxes or cut defense?

Non-starters.

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

You are arguing with a guy who thinks Obama has accomplished a lot and isnt a weakling...do you really think he is going to agree with you on this? He probably still believes the Dems are the party of the people.

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

*****http://images.sodahead.com/polls/001471209/d5c9f6681176767aa9451dad4d65f632_answer_1_xlarge.j peg******
Greatest country in the world.

Can the end of the world whackos just finish it off already?

[Bakunin]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Doesn't matter. The only real alternative is to cut defense and repeal the Bush tax cuts

I don't think doing those two things would eliminate the deficit. In fact, I know they wouldn't (repeal would recoup about $300B, cutting defense spending to $0 would net $700B, and the deficit is over $1T).

And I agree with Kepler - you can't whine about Ryan's proposal when you don't have a competing one. It's funny how the Dems and GOP basically switched places in the span of a year; the GOP used to be the party of No, and now the Dems are taking on that role with regard to spending cuts (real ones, not this minor BS we just saw in the budget deal). If Obama doesn't offer a serious counterproposal, we will be assured of a couple things: 1) the Dems will do nothing but rip on the GOP for attempting to cut spending (and they'll do it in the usual fashion of saying the GOP wants to starve the poor, kick old people out on the street, etc), and 2) the Dems will completely cede the issue of fiscal responsibility to the GOP for the 2012 campaign. If voters give a **** about that as much as they did in 2010, you can kiss the rest of Congress and the presidency goodbye (assuming of course that the GOP doesn't nominate a complete dolt - and that's assuming a lot with them).

If Obama wants any chance of owning this issue (or at least competing for it), he will come up with a decent alternative and use the remainder of his presidency if need be to sell it to the public (likely under the "shared sacrifice" phrase). Cut spending across the board, and raise taxes across the board. Spare nobody and expect sacrifices from all of us. If he really wants to swing for the fences, he'll mention means testing social security benefits to save that program (I wouldn't hold my breath on this one though).

BTW Kepler, we already are inflating our way out - or at least trying to do so. I read somewhere the other day that if we used the calculations that the government had back in the late 70s / early 80s, current inflation would be pushing 10% (which if true just goes to show how comical this charade is getting w/ regard to government accounting gimmicks and the like).