The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Dumb question: shouldn't the time to vote on raising the debt ceiling be before we've spent the money?

If you're the Republicans and you want to maximize the affect you're going to do exactly the same thing you did in round 1 when you threatened a government shutdown.

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

If you're the Republicans and you want to maximize the affect you're going to do exactly the same thing you did in round 1 when you threatened a government shutdown.

Effect, not affect. And apparently the Dems have done the same thing in the past, which is kinda embarrassing now. Of course that always probably means the Republicans in the past have thundered against using the debt ceiling as an agenda tool. So both sides are blithering hypocrites, which I'm sure comes as a shock.

It all sounds a lot like trying to decide whether to legislate the law of gravity.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Effect, not affect. And apparently the Dems have done the same thing in the past, which is kinda embarrassing now.

Sorry, wrong vowel.

Yeah, they were idiots. Obama is going to pay dearly for that one.

[amherstblackbear]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Sorry, wrong vowel.

Yeah, they were idiots. Obama is going to pay dearly for that one.

I dunno. It gives Stewart/Colbert something to have fun with. But looking at U.S politics today, I doubt it makes much difference either way. Partisan dems will forgive and forget. Partisan Reps will take more ammunition to fire at the President, but they don't really need any.

I doubt that inconsistent public statements on the debt ceiling really resonate with the public. This isn't really on par with "Read my lips, no new taxes," or "I did not have sexual relations with that woman."

[Bob Gray]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Again with the Obama bit. Obama has DONE NOTHING that I wanted. NOTHING. I didn't vote for him so stop placing me with him. This Sanger bit is just another distraction from the real issue that was being discussed which you and Patman have provided no back up on so you lose. At least you didn't blatantly lie like Senator Kyl.

And for the record I find some of Sanger's views disgusting and repulsive. But, they have nothing to do with what Planned Parenthood does today and she did do some good things.

Then why do you constantly attack anyone who complains about Obama. You say you're one way, but you behave very differently. I'm not sure there is anyone around here who so regularly and vociferously attacks those who don't agree with Obama. I was going to say actions speak louder than words, but all you have on a message board is words, so that doesn't work so well.

Glad to hear you find those comments by Sanger are disgusting. That's more than most around here will concede. But, I'm going to drop it, as we're not getting anywhere, though I'd note for about the 12th time that what I'm discussing is not what Patman had been discussing (of which I wasn't part of the discussion).

[amherstblackbear]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I'll try to revive it - because it's more interesting than most Congressional politics.

Bob, I don't think you've even come close to establishing the relevance of Sanger's comments for anything other than her own legacy. Until I see an argument that's a little bit more sound than the one I summarized below, I'm filing this one under "as irrelevant as it is repugnant."

[Foxton]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Glad to hear you find those comments by Sanger are disgusting. That's more than most around here will concede. But, I'm going to drop it, as we're not getting anywhere, though I'd note for about the 12th time that what I'm discussing is not what Patman had been discussing (of which I wasn't part of the discussion).

Oh ho! The Old Pio assertion that if you don't immediately write a 10 page paper on why you don't like something that means you agree with it.

You haven't presented any arguments on what PP currently does that would lead them to be defunded. So run off with your tail between your legs and act like you actually accomplished something. At least you didn't come up with any lies this time.

[unofan]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Bob...your talking points are now a meme on Fark. I think that's a sign it's time to get new ones.

theorellior:
Jackson Herring: Oh boy can we have another ****ty thread where the usual shills lie about Planned Parenthood some more? YAY!

I'd like to start by mentioning Margaret Sanger and the KKK in the same sentence. Of course, that leads me to mention the Nazis, and then wonder out loud about eugenics and how sluts should just keep their legs closed. Finally, I'd like to cap this off with a soft-focus picture of a four-year-old girl.

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Thank you for being thoughtful in your dialogue. I'm afraid I have to say yet again that Patman was the one talking about corruption at PP, not me. I don't know how many more times I have to say it, but somehow people are missing it. My point is PP's checkered history and it's honoring of Sanger, who was pretty monstrous in her views of things. I'm not going to say she didn't do anything good in her lifetime, but her views of minorities, the poor, the handicapped, immigrants, etc. are far beyond Beck or those others who you mention. I'm not a Beck or Olberman or Rush fan and don't listen to any of their junk, but I've never heard any of them remotely suggest exterminating the negro race, as Sanger advocated. She didn't just say horrifying things, she pushed horrifying agendas. Pre-WW2 her group was connected the Nazi Germany. And it's not like she was just associated with the group for a short period when it initially started and then the group radically changed and rejected its roots. She was active in these issues until her death in 1966. And PP still greatly honors her. So efforts to say something she said or did a century ago has no association with PP now just doesn't square with or reflect the reality of her long association with PP and their continued holding her on a pedestal. It'd be like Cambodia honoring Pol Pot or something. I guess a lot of folks simply aren't as bothered by her views and her long association with PP. The amount of handwringing around here when some conservative person says something relatively innocuous who nobody wants to confront the grisly views of Margaret Sanger shows wild hypocrisy. If some conservative icon from back then had said such things, they'd be horribly castigated (and rightly so), but you get a free pass if you're a liberal darling. I mean, her views aren't just mildly offensive on the edge stuff, they are gross and vile by any measure, part of the reason her organization was looked up to by Nazi Germany, which shared in some of her and her group's perspectives.

Thank you for replying in kind (except the darling part ). I guess I have little knowledge of the horrible side of Sanger. The side that was covered in public health was the fight to diseminate information to women- in particular the poor women who suffered the most from disease and chronic ailments due to multiple, back to back pregnancies, syphillis and other STDs. The scope of medical maladies back then was horrendous.

The only experience I have with PP, Margaret Sanger was not even on the radar. The clinic was focused on health care not on who founded it or even the history of it. Your reaction makes a bit more sense to me with the background you give. I do still have problem connecting Sanger with those views to PP as far as their agenda. None of those views seems to be reflected in the mission of PP. I will have to dig around to see if I was just oblivious or if that was separate from what she espoused in PP.

[Priceless]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I looked it up. What Patman was talking about was a plan by some group (probably LiveAction) to do a James O'Keefe-style video. At eight different PP locations in five states men went to PP and said they needed medical help to treat an STD. When alone with a worker, they said they ran a sex-traffic ring with underage illegals and they were the ones who needed medical care. A catch-22 for a medical provider: if they agree to treat the girls, they are helping run a sex ring; if they refuse then they are a medical group that neglects girls who desperately need their help. Of course, the girls didn't exist.

But the guy(s) who did this little trick didn't count on Planned Parenthood doing what they did: Call the FBI and report them.

"These multi-state visits from men claiming to be engaged in sex trafficking of minors may be a hoax," Cecile Richards, president of Planned Parenthood, wrote in a letter to Attorney General Eric Holder last week. "However, if the representations made by this man are true," she wrote, they indicate violations of several sex trafficking, prostitution and child sex laws.

LiveAction prefers these types of stunts and, when asked for comment, the founder said, "I can't comment until we release the visual evidence."

Ooops.

So Patman was, in fact, full of **** when he made those accusations. Color me surprised.

[Patman]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Actually, I was talking about the work of one woman and her videos relating to the abortions for those under the age of 13 or so... and they're desire to skirt various local state laws. I'm not big on the abortion topic but its hard to ignore that their organization is gung ho about violating the law as long as it fits their morals.

------

So, how about Boehner knifing his own base in the back... 38 billion dollars was proven to be a lie... its more like 12 billion.... the rest of the money related to funds that weren't going to be spent anyhow. So, we'll see what happens at the end of the week. Lying creepbag.

[leswp1]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

Actually, I was talking about the work of one woman and her videos relating to the abortions for those under the age of 13 or so... and they're desire to skirt various local state laws. I'm not big on the abortion topic but its hard to ignore that their organization is gung ho about violating the law as long as it fits their morals.

------

So, how about Boehner knifing his own base in the back... 38 billion dollars was proven to be a lie... its more like 12 billion.... the rest of the money related to funds that weren't going to be spent anyhow. So, we'll see what happens at the end of the week. Lying creepbag.

Link please? Was this one PP, many? I find this an extremely unlikely scenario. How is PP gung ho to violate laws? Their agenda is to prevent the pregnancy before it happens.

In many states it is not legal for a person under the age of 16 to make a decision about abortion without parental consent UNLESS they go before a legal person (varies by state) and make their case that they are capable of making decision by themself, that to involve the parent would be detrimental. This is true in Mass. where you can get an AB earlier than 16 without parental knowledge.

There is a real debate regarding when the pregnant person becomes an emancipated minor. If you are underage and have a child you are the mother, legally responsible for the baby unless they get a guardian set up. If you are the provider you required to keep silent because the person is considered an emancipated minor but are you required to report the statutory rape? PP and any other AB provider have dealt with this enough that they have advocates that help the kid go thru the proper channels if they need to go the legal route. THis protects them legally as well as the woman.

To consider that a 13 yo could be pregnant is very disturbing. In Lawrence they regularly see 11 yr olds get pregnant. If you look at the possibility that the kid is pregnant and will be at huge physical risk of violence (life threatening in some cases) from the parent, &/or the impregnating ba5tard, the kid is at medical risk to continue the pregnancy (pregnancy at that age can be medically very scary) or the pregnancy is at risk d/t what the kid ingested/smoked/injected it becomes a little more reasonable but still a really bad situation.

[Handyman]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

So, how about Boehner knifing his own base in the back... 38 billion dollars was proven to be a lie... its more like 12 billion.... the rest of the money related to funds that weren't going to be spent anyhow. So, we'll see what happens at the end of the week. Lying creepbag.

Boehner is a ****** and while everyone else is either trying to fix the budget or is suffering from all the issues he will be laughing his butt off on the taxpayer's dime on the golf course. He doesnt care, he knows he will not be voted he is the ultimate insider. He has literally ****ed off everyone and it wont matter one lick.

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

I highly recommend Stephen Colbert's Twitter account. This is one of the latest ones.

StephenAtHome Stephen Colbert
Everything you would only do in the privacy of your own home, Jon Kyl prefers to do on a subway car. #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement

Stephen has coined the new hashtag #NotIntendedToBeAFactualStatement in honor of Jon Kyl using that as an excuse for lying on the floor of The House.

The Colbert Report	Mon - Thurs 11:30pm / 10:30c
Jon Kyl Tweets Not Intended to Be Factual Statements
www.colbertnation.com
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Colbert Report Full Episodes Political Humor & Satire Blog Video Archive

[Kepler]

Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

So, how about Boehner knifing his own base in the back... 38 billion dollars was proven to be a lie... its more like 12 billion.... the rest of the money related to funds that weren't going to be spent anyhow. So, we'll see what happens at the end of the week. Lying creepbag.

I'm not a fan of Boehner but this doesn't seem to make sense to me. The two initial leadership offers, before the grandstanding started, were each in the $30B range (it was a small difference and not so much of amount as priorities). Then there was the cough "radical" offer of $61B and at that point the argument became public and so of course all sense and honesty immediately disappeared from the bargaining. So how did the final resolution undershoot everybody's offer? I'm not challenging you but a link would be nice so I could look at the figures.

As far as whether anybody knifed anybody, Boehner and the RNC leadership most definitely wanted to knife the few remaining TPers who haven't simply morphed into normal Republicans (if one is sympathetic to the TPers the word for these people would be "the principled ones" ). The RNC knows they are going into an election against an incumbent president and they know they shot their wad in the midterm running as an "out" party and now they are going to share responsibility for what happens between now and November 2012. That means they can't afford an indigestible voting bloc that won't help them cut deals and actually get something done.

It's very important to realize the way politics works. As much as Movement Republicans need to stay on message that the Dems are the Handmaids of Satan, Republican incumbents need even more to be able to show their constituents something of value -- a combination of (1) pork, (2) pet ideology votes, and (3) progress on national issues.

If they cater to the base, they only get (2). In the past, every Republican has known this and saved the warfare rhetoric for the cameras -- in private they were tough but in the end they tried to govern. What the leadership has now is a big group of freshman who don't understand they can't just swagger in and pretend they're Buford T. Pusser. This showdown was really between the two GOP groups with the leadership and the national party showing the newbies (very privately, so as not to confuse the base) what's what.

Politics as it really happens has almost nothing to do with the narratives parties use to gather voter attention and approval. It really is "the art of the possible." Which seems like a betrayal, but you know what politics that plays ideological hardball and "takes no prisoners" looks like?

Bosnia.