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  • #571
    Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

    Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
    In fairness, we have no idea what an Obama plan will be, as he's never put one out there to date. I seriously hope he brings some good and serious ideas to the table. I'm not optimistic, but if he does, I'll give him major kudos.
    You may owe him those kudos.

    (I'll believe it when I see it, but if both Kos and The Weekly Standard come out against his plan, I'll support it.)
    Cornell University
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    • #572
      Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

      Originally posted by Kepler View Post
      HCR was pretty ballsy. I don't buy the "he's not brave enough" thing.
      It was? In whose eyes? It changed almost nothing, in fact the only reason it was a big deal at all was because the GOP pretended it was. If they hadnt been screaming socialism and fighting it like a 5 year old eating broccoli no one would have cared. No single payer, no public option, just the ability to now make it illegal for someone to not have insurance, provided by the same con men insurance companies that provide it now. Yes we got a tradeoff in that now they have to accept pre-existing conditions but beyond that HCR only changed the status quo minutely. I dont think putting forth Bob Dole's plan from 1996 is ballsy at all, it is bending over and once again letting the GOP dictate.

      Ballsy would have been sticking to single payer in the hopes of the public option as a compromise. That is the art of negotiation. Not Obama...he doesnt even fight back when someone calls him a liar during the State of the Union

      If Obama is so strong how has he not repealed DADT when Admirals and Generals are saying it is time?

      Obama is a 95 pound weakling and is now the perfect representation of everything that is wrong about the Democratic Party. He may as well be their mascot because he personifies them now. Such a waste.
      "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
      -aparch

      "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
      -INCH

      Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
      -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

      Comment

      • #573
        Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

        Originally posted by Handyman View Post
        Obama is a 95 pound weakling and is now the perfect representation of everything that is wrong about the Democratic Party. He may as well be their mascot because he personifies them now. Such a waste.
        The GOP has been trying to kill social security for sixty years. Would you say every GOP president during that time has been "weak"?

        Even getting HCR to a vote was a monumental achievement. Every Dem president had tried it since Truman, and every one had failed. All the right's braying about socialism did nothing with the health care debate because everybody knows that's the chord the GOP strums about everything. Obama got it done by being able to keep the Dems from folding, and the Dems have folded plenty of times before. Ergo, Obama isn't the weakling the Kossites want to portray him as; he may be as shifty a dealer as Clinton was but without constantly drawing attention to it "hey, didja see that deal I just made? Now come on and give us a big kiss, darlin'...").

        Passing any form of HCR broke the glass ceiling and means the US will eventually have a real national health care program just like every other non-stone-age country. It's breath-taking that people can take that achievement and just spit it back. It took quite a lot of doing to give enough Dems the cover to get it done -- probably the hardest thing any president has had to do since Bush Senior broke ranks with his base, raised taxes, and started the move towards budget balance.

        AND the coolest part is although Obama did do that and took the political hit, he may still be re-elected which Bush couldn't pull off. That would make him ballsy and effective.
        Cornell University
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        • #574
          Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

          Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
          I raised the issue of PP's very checkered past. Both of them avoided addressing the point I raised. Pretty simple really.
          They can't avoid what they don't know about! They're asking for you to supply documentation of PP's very checkered past as all you're saying is that they have one. There's a large possibility that they're not familiar with PP's forays into the immoral and illegal, so it's up to you to show them (and it's not that hard for you to do it). It's not a hard concept to understand. So post some links so they can see the past of PP, and then you can watch them dodge that info. If you're too lazy to google a link for your own argument, why would someone else do it?
          Old Monster Records

          Comment

          • #575
            Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

            Originally posted by Kepler View Post
            You may owe him those kudos.

            (I'll believe it when I see it, but if both Kos and The Weekly Standard come out against his plan, I'll support it.)
            Is that a light at the end of the tunnel?
            Regarding the offhand remark about "preparing the spare bedroom for grandma" if Medicare is cut... I still don't think people fully appreciate how far in debt we are. That is exactly the sort of thing we're looking at returning to, and it'll do us all good to face up to it. Does everyone need to own a house? Does every teenager need an iphone? Of course not. Needs vs. Wants, people.
            Huskies are very intelligent and trainable. Huskies make an excellent jogging companion, as long as it is not too hot. Grooming is minimal; bathing is normally unnecessary.
            USCHO Fantasy Baseball Champion 2011 2013 2015

            Comment

            • #576
              Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

              Originally posted by Kepler View Post
              The GOP has been trying to kill social security for sixty years. Would you say every GOP president during that time has been "weak"?

              Even getting HCR to a vote was a monumental achievement. Every Dem president had tried it since Truman, and every one had failed. All the right's braying about socialism did nothing with the health care debate because everybody knows that's the chord the GOP strums about everything. Obama got it done by being able to keep the Dems from folding, and the Dems have folded plenty of times before. Ergo, Obama isn't the weakling the Kossites want to portray him as; he may be as shifty a dealer as Clinton was but without constantly drawing attention to it "hey, didja see that deal I just made? Now come on and give us a big kiss, darlin'...").

              Passing any form of HCR broke the glass ceiling and means the US will eventually have a real national health care program just like every other non-stone-age country. It's breath-taking that people can take that achievement and just spit it back. It took quite a lot of doing to give enough Dems the cover to get it done -- probably the hardest thing any president has had to do since Bush Senior broke ranks with his base, raised taxes, and started the move towards budget balance.

              AND the coolest part is although Obama did do that and took the political hit, he may still be re-elected which Bush couldn't pull off. That would make him ballsy and effective.
              Are you actually Chris Mathews? Wipe the drool of your chin. Apparently Obama truly is an angel sent to lead us through the wilderness

              Obama is going to get re-elected because the GOP has no one. If they had a conservative version of Clinton he would be voted out faster than you can say Mondale.
              "It's as if the Drumpf Administration is made up of the worst and unfunny parts of the Cleveland Browns, Washington Generals, and the alien Mon-Stars from Space Jam."
              -aparch

              "Scenes in "Empire Strikes Back" that take place on the tundra planet Hoth were shot on the present-day site of Ralph Engelstad Arena."
              -INCH

              Of course I'm a fan of the Vikings. A sick and demented Masochist of a fan, but a fan none the less.
              -ScoobyDoo 12/17/2007

              Comment

              • #577
                Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                Originally posted by Bob Gray View Post
                I raised the issue of PP's very checkered past. Both of them avoided addressing the point I raised. Pretty simple really.
                Wow. Patman makes allegations that Planned Parenthood is corrupt and guilty of conducting illegal (not immoral - illegal) business. We ask for documentation because we aren't aware of these alleged illegalities and you say we're dodging. Dodging what exactly? You and Patman aren't telling us what we're dodging. You haven't raised any points for us to dodge!

                Comment

                • #578
                  Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                  Originally posted by Handyman View Post
                  Wipe the drool of your chin.
                  Relax, I'm not carving him a spot on Rushmore yet. I'd prefer we carve him into Stone Mountain. How's that taste, South?
                  Cornell University
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                  ECAC Champion 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973, 1980, 1986, 1996, 1997, 2003, 2005, 2010
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                  • #579
                    Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                    Originally posted by geezer View Post
                    Needs vs. Wants, people.
                    Once the barn has been opened, its hard to get the animals back in. Wants are needs now
                    I swear there ain't no heaven but I pray there ain't no hell.

                    Maine Hockey Love it or Leave it

                    Comment

                    • #580
                      Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                      Originally posted by walrus View Post
                      Once the barn has been opened, its hard to get the animals back in. Wants are needs now
                      Correct. Medicare Prescription D anyone? Illegals? NCLB? Wars?
                      **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                      Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                      Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                      Comment

                      • #581
                        Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                        Originally posted by Priceless View Post
                        Wow. Patman makes allegations that Planned Parenthood is corrupt and guilty of conducting illegal (not immoral - illegal) business. We ask for documentation because we aren't aware of these alleged illegalities and you say we're dodging. Dodging what exactly? You and Patman aren't telling us what we're dodging. You haven't raised any points for us to dodge!
                        Focus. PP's grisly history. Margaret Sanger. I didn't say anything about them doing anything illegal (though it wouldn't surprise me). I said they have a grisly history. You made some statement about nobody is perfect. Yah, that explains statements like this from Margaret Sanger "We do not want word to go out that we want to exterminate the Negro population." Or "The marriage bed is the most degenerating influence in the social order." Or "The most merciful thing that a large family does to one of its infant members is to kill it." Yup, every other interest group is like that.
                        Originally posted by Priceless
                        Good to see you're so reasonable.
                        Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                        Very well, said.
                        Originally posted by Rover
                        A fair assessment Bob.

                        Comment

                        • #582
                          Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                          Originally posted by Rimbaud View Post
                          They can't avoid what they don't know about! They're asking for you to supply documentation of PP's very checkered past as all you're saying is that they have one. There's a large possibility that they're not familiar with PP's forays into the immoral and illegal, so it's up to you to show them (and it's not that hard for you to do it). It's not a hard concept to understand. So post some links so they can see the past of PP, and then you can watch them dodge that info. If you're too lazy to google a link for your own argument, why would someone else do it?
                          Except they didn't say they wanted to discuss its history, they avoided it, wanting to only focus on right now and making broad generalizations that nobody's perfect or whatever. You really need to read the posts in question more carefully before wading in here.
                          Originally posted by Priceless
                          Good to see you're so reasonable.
                          Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                          Very well, said.
                          Originally posted by Rover
                          A fair assessment Bob.

                          Comment

                          • #583
                            Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                            So, Patman says they're corrupt, Bob changes the subject, and Priceless etc. is avoiding the issue?

                            And you folks believe that Michele Bachmann can't be elected? Really?
                            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

                            Comment

                            • #584
                              Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                              So, Patman says they're corrupt, Bob changes the subject, and Priceless etc. is avoiding the issue?

                              And you folks believe that Michele Bachmann can't be elected? Really?
                              Priceless was responding to my post about Margaret Sanger (today at 9:02 to help you out). Please stay with the plot.

                              Reading comprehension seems to be in short supply today. Maybe you and Rimbaud can get together on work on it.
                              Originally posted by Priceless
                              Good to see you're so reasonable.
                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo
                              Very well, said.
                              Originally posted by Rover
                              A fair assessment Bob.

                              Comment

                              • #585
                                Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                                What do Margaret Sanger's quotes from 100 years ago have to do with anything that Planned Parenthood is (illegally, allegedly) doing today?

                                Comment

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