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  • #31
    Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

    Originally posted by WeWantMore View Post
    Yep. Though I don't think they are that ballsy.
    More to the point, it'd contradict their entire rationale for cutting collective bargaining. Their sole reason is that they need to do it to solve the budgetary crisis. If they pull it out and claim it's not a budget item, then they basically screw themselves over.

    not that logic has been the calling card of the tea party.

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    • #32
      Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

      It shouldn't be shocking, but it is: These are school teachers! Step one needs to be required remedial education.
      I know, it's from Hot Air, but I haven't seen anyone else willing to publish the actual photos.
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      • #33
        Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

        Originally posted by geezer View Post
        It shouldn't be shocking, but it is: These are school teachers! Step one needs to be required remedial education.
        I know, it's from Hot Air, but I haven't seen anyone else willing to publish the actual photos.
        At least they all appear to be spelled correctly. Which is more than I can say about the typical Tea Party protestors I've seen.

        I will say, it's gonna be interesting to see what happens 11 months from now when the recall option is available.

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        • #34
          Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

          Originally posted by unofan View Post
          At least they all appear to be spelled correctly. Which is more than I can say about the typical Tea Party protestors I've seen.

          I will say, it's gonna be interesting to see what happens 11 months from now when the recall option is available.
          Heh. It really won't be. He's not getting recalled. Sorry.

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          • #35
            Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

            I love how we extend tax cuts to rich people during a budget crisis and then we squeeze the middle class to pay for it. And no I don't care State, Federal, whatever cause it's all the same thing and it's all orchestrated by the parties.
            **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

            Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
            Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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            • #36
              Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

              Originally posted by WeWantMore View Post
              Heh. It really won't be. He's not getting recalled. Sorry.
              Meh, maybe I'm jaded since Omaha is probably the most recall-happy place around (seriously, 8 of the last 9 mayors have faced an organized recall attempt). My understanding after talking with my wife (a Badger through and through) is that Wisconsin isn't nearly as trigger-happy, so the fact that they're even discussing it is newsworthy.

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              • #37
                Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                Originally posted by unofan View Post
                Meh, maybe I'm jaded since Omaha is probably the most recall-happy place around (seriously, 8 of the last 9 mayors have faced an organized recall attempt). My understanding after talking with my wife (a Badger through and through) is that Wisconsin isn't nearly as trigger-happy, so the fact that they're even discussing it is newsworthy.
                Republicans talked a lot about doing it under Doyle (at least 2 big efforts from what I remember) and they both came to nothing.

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                • #38
                  Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                  Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                  I love how we extend tax cuts to rich people during a budget crisis and then we squeeze the middle class to pay for it. And no I don't care State, Federal, whatever cause it's all the same thing and it's all orchestrated by the parties.
                  .4% contribution. .4%!

                  I don't care how high you raise taxes, that's not something you tax your way out of. Believe me, Jim Doyle tried.

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                  • #39
                    Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                    Originally posted by WeWantMore View Post
                    .4% contribution. .4%!

                    I don't care how high you raise taxes, that's not something you tax your way out of. Believe me, Jim Doyle tried.
                    I'm curious how expenditures and contributions are calculated. If I put $1000 into an investment account and let it sit for 30 years with an average return of 5%, it'll be worthy close to $4300 at that point. Say my employer matched that, so the account has ~$8600 in it. Does that mean I only funded 13% of it, and the employer paid for 87%, give or take? Or did I really fund half of it?

                    I agree Wisconsin's employees are probably contributing less than they should, but disagree with your premise that it's only .4% (or perhaps more succinctly, that the taxpayers are contibuting 99.6%). Compound interest is a wonderful thing.

                    Also, to the degree that states raided pension funds previously and are now on the hook for what they borrowed and never paid back (not sure if that's the case in Wisconsin, but it definitely is in NY/CA/IL), well, how is that the fault of the unions or the public employees?

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                    • #40
                      Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                      Originally posted by WeWantMore View Post
                      .4% contribution. .4%!

                      I don't care how high you raise taxes, that's not something you tax your way out of. Believe me, Jim Doyle tried.
                      Most of the affected employees are okay with the benefit/pension contribution increases. It's the lack of CB to prevent this increase from happening every single year that is the issue. Maybe if the guv put a cap on the annual increase just as he seeks to put a cap on the increase in salary such that the increase in benefit/pension costs doesn't exceed the salary, it would be more palatable to the employees.
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                      • #41
                        Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                        Originally posted by icebadger View Post
                        Most of the affected employees are okay with the benefit/pension contribution increases. It's the lack of CB to prevent this increase from happening every single year that is the issue. Maybe if the guv put a cap on the annual increase just as he seeks to put a cap on the increase in salary such that the increase in benefit/pension costs doesn't exceed the salary, it would be more palatable to the employees.
                        Right, I recognize that. I think that's a really good, fair idea about capping the increase in contributions.

                        Anyways, I know CB is the big part of the issue. But Scooby was moaning about taxes, as he likes to do, and again, I was making the point that this isn't a situation that can be taxed away.

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                        • #42
                          Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                          Originally posted by unofan View Post
                          I'm curious how expenditures and contributions are calculated. If I put $1000 into an investment account and let it sit for 30 years with an average return of 5%, it'll be worthy close to $4300 at that point. Say my employer matched that, so the account has ~$8600 in it. Does that mean I only funded 13% of it, and the employer paid for 87%, give or take? Or did I really fund half of it?

                          I agree Wisconsin's employees are probably contributing less than they should, but disagree with your premise that it's only .4% (or perhaps more succinctly, that the taxpayers are contibuting 99.6%). Compound interest is a wonderful thing.

                          Also, to the degree that states raided pension funds previously and are now on the hook for what they borrowed and never paid back (not sure if that's the case in Wisconsin, but it definitely is in NY/CA/IL), well, how is that the fault of the unions or the public employees?
                          It's all their fault that the Government decided to pay them off with pensions, and benefits instead of just paying them a salary.

                          Now they got caught and they expect the workers to bail them out. I'm starting to see a pattern here and quite frankly it makes me sick to my stomach.
                          **NOTE: The misleading post above was brought to you by Reynold's Wrap and American Steeples, makers of Crosses.

                          Originally Posted by dropthatpuck-Scooby's a lost cause.
                          Originally Posted by First Time, Long Time-Always knew you were nothing but a troll.

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                          • #43
                            Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                            I don't know the details in WI, but I did a job for a gentleman who worked for the DOT in WI for 20 years, then took an early retirement to a million dollar log home on Lake Superior, bought a 30-footer, and fishes 6 months a year (winters in FL). He was telling me that "all a young guy like you has to do is go work in WI for 20 years and you'll be set for life". Again, without knowing the details, it seems extravagant for someone who drove a truck for 20 years at union scale.
                            But then you consider that you'd have to live in Wisconsin those 20 years, and it's not worth it.
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                            • #44
                              Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                              Originally posted by ScoobyDoo View Post
                              It's all their fault that the Government decided to pay them off with pensions, and benefits instead of just paying them a salary.

                              Now they got caught and they expect the workers to bail them out. I'm starting to see a pattern here and quite frankly it makes me sick to my stomach.
                              They have every right to have a pension program. But, since it is given to them by the government, the government also has every right to ask that they contribute a reasonable amount to it. A government powerful enough to give you everything you want... and all that.

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                              • #45
                                Re: The 112th Congress - The first Orange-American to be elected Speaker

                                Originally posted by geezer View Post
                                I don't know the details in WI, but I did a job for a gentleman who worked for the DOT in WI for 20 years, then took an early retirement to a million dollar log home on Lake Superior, bought a 30-footer, and fishes 6 months a year (winters in FL). He was telling me that "all a young guy like you has to do is go work in WI for 20 years and you'll be set for life". Again, without knowing the details, it seems extravagant for someone who drove a truck for 20 years at union scale.
                                But then you consider that you'd have to live in Wisconsin those 20 years, and it's not worth it.
                                Not quite sure what he's referrring to, but I know most states have a system where if years of service+age = a certain number, you can retire early. I think 20 years is probably low balling it a bit, but that would be my guess.

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