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  • If I had to blind-guess,

    if they make the switch and allow for pre-determined in 2026, Utica seems like it makes perfect sense. In that case, I’ll take Norwich edges out Plattsburgh for the 2025 tourney.

    If they don’t adjust the plans, I’ll say Utica gets next year’s and maybe Hamilton gets 2026 if the rink is renovated by then.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by SHockey98 View Post
      If I had to blind-guess,

      if they make the switch and allow for pre-determined in 2026, Utica seems like it makes perfect sense. In that case, I’ll take Norwich edges out Plattsburgh for the 2025 tourney.

      If they don’t adjust the plans, I’ll say Utica gets next year’s and maybe Hamilton gets 2026 if the rink is renovated by then.
      I think they do one predetermined East and one Predetermined West...If I had to guess it would be GAC getting the West and either Utica 2026 for a joint championship or Plattsburgh in 2027 if its solo.

      I don't think the committee would choose Norwich over Plattsburgh in a one vs one for a predetermined championship, the hotel situation is more complicated in Northfield so if they could pick between the two I think they go to NY. But maybe I'm projecting my own priorities...
      Last edited by Scott_TG; 03-20-2024, 08:13 AM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Scott_TG View Post

        Back to the solo weekend ideas, elsewhere someone threw out the idea of Oswego bidding for a predetermined host nod. Thinking about it, their AD is the current WIH committee chair and is on the committee until August 2025. Perhaps there's a bit of self-interest here?
        Oswego would make an excellent WIH Championship host from a facility and ease of travel perspective. Syracuse airport is 35 minutes away and a relatively easy airport to fly in and out of for most places. It's also a reasonable drive for the fan bases from Plattsburgh, Middlebury, Elmira, Norwich etc. that you might even get some community members, students, fans outside of just parents and friends.

        Plenty of hotels in Oswego to cover the teams and fans that would be attracted to the event.

        The biggest issue I see for Oswego is potentially staffing. The Oswego Athletic Dept. is behind the times on resources for support staff (SID, ATC, game/event operations) etc. Maybe they're working on changing that, but the SID position has been a revolving door for the better part of 6-7 years now included long periods of time with no one in the chair, which is crazy to think when they have had nationally relevant basketball, hockey and baseball programs during that time.

        Hosting these championships in 2024 is a massive undertaking to do it right. When we did it at Norwich in 2018 on four days notice, it would not have been possible to come even remotely close to what we did without 20+ athletic staff (coaches, athletic training, alumni relations etc.) members stepping up to help with the event.
        The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
        "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
        GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
        GO LAKERS!!!
        GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
        "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
        Oswego State '09

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Scott_TG View Post

          I think they do one predetermined East and one Predetermined West...If I had to guess it would be GAC getting the West and either Utica 2026 for a joint championship or Plattsburgh in 2027 if its solo.

          I don't think the committee would choose Norwich over Plattsburgh in a one vs one for a predetermined championship, the hotel situation is more complicated in Northfield so if they could pick between the two I think they go to NY. But maybe I'm projecting my own priorities...
          I don't see them coming west again anytime soon. Seems to me they have their west site checked off for the next few years and once they see the sticker shock of having to pay for those four flights this year they will go back to the east where they can contain costs more easily. Once they do come west again I don't see them going to Gustavus. St. Olaf has a nicer setup if they're really looking at having it on a MIAC campus and there are some Twin Cities rinks that would make even more sense.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by bodyup88 View Post

            I don't see them coming west again anytime soon. Seems to me they have their west site checked off for the next few years and once they see the sticker shock of having to pay for those four flights this year they will go back to the east where they can contain costs more easily. Once they do come west again I don't see them going to Gustavus. St. Olaf has a nicer setup if they're really looking at having it on a MIAC campus and there are some Twin Cities rinks that would make even more sense.
            Scott is correct. The committee is expecting one east and one west predetermined sites. Not guaranteed though.
            Russell Jaslow
            [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
            U.S. College Hockey Online

            Comment


            • Originally posted by bodyup88 View Post

              St. Olaf has a nicer setup if they're really looking at having it on a MIAC campus and there are some Twin Cities rinks that would make even more sense.
              Do you think St. Olaf will bid or would they not be interested because they're not contenders? Which Twin Cities rinks do you think make more sense? I'm not challenging just wondering as I don't know the landscape...

              Comment


              • Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post

                Oswego would make an excellent WIH Championship host from a facility and ease of travel perspective. Syracuse airport is 35 minutes away and a relatively easy airport to fly in and out of for most places. It's also a reasonable drive for the fan bases from Plattsburgh, Middlebury, Elmira, Norwich etc. that you might even get some community members, students, fans outside of just parents and friends.

                Plenty of hotels in Oswego to cover the teams and fans that would be attracted to the event.
                I completely agree. The Marano Campus center is a fantastic facility - I would put it behind the Aud in Utica (I have yet to visit the Nexus Center, but I hear it’s great in its own way), but ahead of Stafford/Kreitzberg/Kenyon/etc. If Oswego were selected, I would fully support that it earned the selection on the merits, not favoritism. (I would expect see McManus to abstain from voting anyway, they typically do in those situations. When the transfer of the NEWHL’s autobid to the SUNYAC was approved, the member of the Championships Committee from New Paltz abstained despite New Paltz not even playing hockey, for crying out loud.)

                If anything, the potential cries of favoritism may actually work AGAINST Oswego in this, because the conflict of interest is far more likely to be why they avoid Oswego than it is to be why Oswego is chosen, IMO.

                The biggest issue I see for Oswego is potentially staffing. The Oswego Athletic Dept. is behind the times on resources for support staff (SID, ATC, game/event operations) etc. Maybe they're working on changing that, but the SID position has been a revolving door for the better part of 6-7 years now included long periods of time with no one in the chair, which is crazy to think when they have had nationally relevant basketball, hockey and baseball programs during that time.
                Yeah, from what I hear they might stop burning through SIDs if they ever decided to actually hire a full-time assistant, rather than expecting one person to handle all of the stats, media, and gameday ops for 22 sports across 3 seasons. (But that’s just what I’ve heard, I can’t guarantee that’s the whole story, please don’t sue me, Oswego!)

                Hosting these championships in 2024 is a massive undertaking to do it right. When we did it at Norwich in 2018 on four days notice, it would not have been possible to come even remotely close to what we did without 20+ athletic staff (coaches, athletic training, alumni relations etc.) members stepping up to help with the event.
                Having covered that championship for USCHO, I have to say you and your staff did an amazing job organizing that event! From a logistical standpoint, it seemed to go off without a hitch. (But as your friend, I also have to say I don’t think I’ve ever seen you look more visibly overworked and stressed than you did that weekend…)
                Last edited by CARDS_rule_the_Burgh; 03-20-2024, 10:03 PM. Reason: Spelling
                Plattsburgh CARDINALS
                SUNYAC Champ x24: 78, 79, 82, 83, 85, 87, 88, 90, 92, 93, 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 04, 08, 09, 11, 12, 15, 17, 23
                ECACW Champ x11: 81, 82, 87, 92, 06, 07, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17
                NEWHL Champ x5: 18, 19, 20, 22, 23
                NCAA DIII Champ x10-ish: 87, 92, 01, 07, 08, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19
                NCAA DIII Runner-up x4-ish: 86, 90, 06, 08
                NCAA DII Runner-up x2: 81, 82

                Comment


                • Originally posted by CARDS_rule_the_Burgh View Post
                  Yeah, from what I hear they might stop burning through SIDs if they ever decided to actually hire a full-time assistant, rather than expecting one person to handle all of the stats, media, and gameday ops for 22 sports across 3 seasons. (But that’s just what I’ve heard, I can’t guarantee that’s the whole story, please don’t sue me, Oswego!)
                  The story is worse than that. :-(
                  Russell Jaslow
                  [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                  U.S. College Hockey Online

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by CARDS_rule_the_Burgh View Post

                    I completely agree. The Marano Campus center is a fantastic facility - I would put it behind the Aud in Utica (I have yet to visit the Nexus Center, but I hear it’s great in its own way), but ahead of Stafford/Kreitzberg/Kenyon/etc. If Oswego were selected, I would fully support that it earned the selection on the merits, not favoritism. (I would expect see McManus to abstain from voting anyway, they typically do in those situations. When the transfer of the NEWHL’s autobid to the SUNYAC was approved, the member of the Championships Committee from New Paltz abstained despite New Paltz not even playing hockey, for crying out loud.)

                    If anything, the potential cries of favoritism may actually work AGAINST Oswego in this, because the conflict of interest is far more likely to be why they avoid Oswego than it is to be why Oswego is chosen, IMO.



                    Yeah, from what I hear they might stop burning through SIDs if they ever decided to actually hire a full-time assistant, rather than expecting one person to handle all of the stats, media, and gameday ops for 22 sports across 3 seasons. (But that’s just what I’ve heard, I can’t guarantee that’s the whole story, please don’t sue me, Oswego!)



                    Having covered that championship for USCHO, I have to say you and your staff did an amazing job organizing that event! From a logistical standpoint, it seemed to go off without a hitch. (But as your friend, I also have to say I don’t think I’ve ever seen you look more visibly overworked and stressed than you did that weekend…)
                    Appreciate the kind words. No doubt that is high up there for the most stressed I have ever been in my life. I'd venture I put about 80-90 hours in that week. (that's not trying to claim a badge of honor). Just trying to explain how much work we put into that event to make it what it was.

                    It was all worth it in the end when the clock hit 0 and the scoreboard read Norwich: 2 Elmira: 1....

                    Unbelievable week and night that I'll surely never forget.
                    The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
                    "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
                    GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
                    GO LAKERS!!!
                    GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
                    "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
                    Oswego State '09

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Scott_TG View Post

                      Do you think St. Olaf will bid or would they not be interested because they're not contenders? Which Twin Cities rinks do you think make more sense? I'm not challenging just wondering as I don't know the landscape...
                      I don't know if St. Olaf will bid or not and their rink is marginally not large enough. I saw one arena description that said there are 954 (individual chair) seats in the arena but they have a great deal of standing room above the seats that extends to a full concourse around the entire perimeter of the arena, including behind both goals - way more standing room than either River Falls or GAC. Their Athletic Director, Ryan Bowles, has been there since 2015 and oversaw the construction of the arena a few years ago.
                      They fancy themselves as a national liberal arts college so I can see them wanting the recognition that hosting might offer. Their women's team really struggled this season after making huge strides in 2022-23 when they qualified for the MIAC playoffs (only the top 5 teams in the conference make it). The men's team, on the other hand, has won their conference tourney 2 of the last 3 years.

                      Regarding the Twin Cities rinks, the names already thrown out there are Aldrich Arena and Ridder (the women's rink on the U of Minnesota campus). I don't think TRIA Rink, the Minnesota Wild practice rink where Hamline plays their home games is big enough or would meet the dedicated ice time needs. University of St. Thomas is supposed to be building a 4,000 seat facility but it has not broken ground and I'm not sure how open they would be to hosting a Division lll event after essentially getting kicked out of the MIAC.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by bodyup88 View Post

                        I don't know if St. Olaf will bid or not and their rink is marginally not large enough. I saw one arena description that said there are 954 (individual chair) seats in the arena but they have a great deal of standing room above the seats that extends to a full concourse around the entire perimeter of the arena, including behind both goals - way more standing room than either River Falls or GAC. Their Athletic Director, Ryan Bowles, has been there since 2015 and oversaw the construction of the arena a few years ago.
                        They fancy themselves as a national liberal arts college so I can see them wanting the recognition that hosting might offer. Their women's team really struggled this season after making huge strides in 2022-23 when they qualified for the MIAC playoffs (only the top 5 teams in the conference make it). The men's team, on the other hand, has won their conference tourney 2 of the last 3 years.

                        Regarding the Twin Cities rinks, the names already thrown out there are Aldrich Arena and Ridder (the women's rink on the U of Minnesota campus). I don't think TRIA Rink, the Minnesota Wild practice rink where Hamline plays their home games is big enough or would meet the dedicated ice time needs. University of St. Thomas is supposed to be building a 4,000 seat facility but it has not broken ground and I'm not sure how open they would be to hosting a Division lll event after essentially getting kicked out of the MIAC.

                        I agree with UST possibly being hesitant to host, but let's get the whole "kicked out" thing straight. St. Thomas wanted out of D3 a hell of a lot more than the select MIAC members "wanted them out." There were complaints, yes. But UST wanted out in the first way. The MIAC wrestled with their "statement" for months. Basically, with the wording they used of "kicking out," it was doing one of their founding members a solid by getting them to D1 immediately with ZERO transition period. Normally, from D3 to D1, that's a 12 year process in full. Sorry, not super relevant, as I do agree they may not be super willing to host a D3 event. But the MIAC did not really want them gone.

                        TRIA would most likely be difficult. Hamline has an extremely difficult time getting games there with the Wild owning it. Ridder would be awesome if they let the MIAC host it, like NCAA basketball regionals.
                        Last edited by SHockey98; 03-21-2024, 05:01 PM.

                        Comment


                        • You're right, not super relevant to this post but thanks for your opinion. Bottom line, I don't think they're a factor in the D3 women's hockey championship site discussion in the west. Also, their building is supposed to be a multi-sport hockey and basketball building so I doubt the total availability would have been there anyway.

                          Comment


                          • The latest championship committee report was released and there are some bombshell items in the form of legislative items.

                            https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/com...ar19Report.pdf

                            1. Pairwise, in all likelihood, is finally dead.

                            The "selection criteria databases" that they did all this legwork on supposedly came up with... NPI. I have heard of this, and I know D-I does it. Have no idea how it will work out.

                            It supposedly only takes into account winning percentage, and opponent's NPI ratings. There can be a sliding scale of how much it weights each. 75%/25% is the standard, but most likely, the men and women will agree on which weight they want to choose. After Year 1 of NPI, they can make changes to that weight if they see fit, but after the initial year, they won't be able to tinker with it every offseason. There will be specific points where they can do so if needed.

                            2. Championship ratio is dropping from 6.5:1 to 6:1.

                            This was expected, but looking like a sure thing. With the 78 projected teams, that would bump the bracket up to 12. However, with the Northland news (recent update seems like they won't reach that financial goal), we'll probably drop back down to 77 unless someone new pops up last second like Dubuque last year. That puts D3WIH back down to the current 11-team field. No rounding up, either, as they'll need to reach the number exactly.

                            3. 2025 and 2027 still looks like the plan for predetermined sites

                            Recent championship budget initiatives revealed 2025 and 2027 as the plan for the predetermined pilot. Again, this is contrary to lining it up with the men for now, so they'll have to get creative.

                            Comment


                            • With Northland alumni only donating $200k of a $12 million need, it looks like that's it for them.

                              Hopefully there's a school like Dubuque where they have a nearby rink and an appetite two take on two teams to boost their own enrollment.

                              Anyone out west know who's nearby?

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Scott_TG View Post
                                With Northland alumni only donating $200k of a $12 million need, it looks like that's it for them.

                                Hopefully there's a school like Dubuque where they have a nearby rink and an appetite two take on two teams to boost their own enrollment.

                                Anyone out west know who's nearby?
                                There's not much next to Ashland WI, UW Superior, St. Scholastica, would be the only close programs. Dubuque is probably the best landing spot for some of them, as they skated with 12 players this year.

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