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2023-24: D3whky

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  • Lots of vitriol on the thread and understandably so. But what a set of games yesterday. I hear you about the upcoming conference coming this month regarding protecting high seeds. What I don’t understand was how avoidable this issue was given the money they’re about to shell out for this tournament. This has been talked about on this thread, but they really dropped the ball. Maybe they were hoping for a Plattsburgh FF, but who knows.

    At the end of the day, they would have paid the SAME amount of travel money for a bracket that looked like this.

    9) Nazareth @ 8) Hamilton
    10) Elmira at 7) Cortland
    11) WNEU at 6) Middlebury

    8) Hamilton at 1) River Falls
    10) Elmira at 2) Plattsburgh
    5) Adrian at 3) Gustavus
    6) Middlebury at 4) Amherst

    Who knows what the Frozen Four is. But you’d have to believe UWRF rolls. I’d take Middlebury over Amherst. And I do think Plattsburgh and GAC are better teams than Elmira and Adrian respectively.

    Just such a horrid look for the NCAA. Maybe people aren’t considering that the NCAA actually maybe didn’t think this through. They don’t care so I don’t think we should necessarily assume they do their due diligence after this year’s display.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by JDHack51 View Post

      Actually the results this weekend and last prove what we've said all year. The NESCAC is overrated, GAC and UWRF shouldn't have to face each other in the QF's, and a 4th team from the West should be let in. Especially when Adrian isn't really in the West....more in the middle of nowhere.

      UWEC was a completely different team down the stretch, first half of the year their D was atrocious and would agree they didn't perform. I still wouldn't put them in the top 4, but Hamilton deserved the nod instead? Guess we ignore that part. They were more competitive vs UWRF than Adrian was, and Adrian didn't have any trouble walking all over Hamilton.

      I was at the GAC UWRF game, so that's why I was silent! Great game, 1,700 fans, the place was rocking....so I think Western fans are doing alright.
      The field is chosen by the Pairwise, that is all (except AQs) !
      Last edited by WCHornet; 03-10-2024, 01:50 PM.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Scott_TG View Post
        Lenzen in OT for Elmira, Stott was taken by surprise for some reason granted the shot was a beauty.

        100% turnover for the frozen four from 2023

        Adrian vs River Falls
        Elmira vs Middlebury
        Curious if this has ever happened before. My gut says no, especially since there were so many repeat winners early on in D3 tournament history.
        The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
        "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
        GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
        GO LAKERS!!!
        GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
        "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
        Oswego State '09

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        • Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post

          Curious if this has ever happened before. My gut says no, especially since there were so many repeat winners early on in D3 tournament history.
          Confirmed never happened before. Not the most shocking thing given how certain matchups are near-annually played but still a crazy stat. Few times with 3 newcomers, but this is the first with all 4. Even the 2001 pre-NCAA Frozen Four had one of the inaugural 2002 NCAA finalists in Gustavus.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by WCHornet View Post

            The field is chosen by the Pairwise, that is all (except AQs) !
            I condensed the points that were made the last three months, I understand how it works.

            My point all year was Pairwise only works effectively ranking teams that play in the same region. It can be used beyond that, but it has it's faults with minimal crossover play. The context was this has been an unfair advantage for the NESCAC when it comes to getting automatic qualifiers the last two years. No doubt in my mind UWEC was the better team than Hamilton, and was more deserving. Make a cap of two teams (one at large) per conference and UWEC is in and Hamilton is out using Pairwise.

            This has been said a million times, so going to stop there, but one would hope that a conference limit on at large bids would be an easy change.
            Last edited by JDHack51; 03-10-2024, 06:54 PM.

            Comment


            • I'd also feel that way if it was three MIAC teams making the playoffs. Balance is better for hockey as a whole, especially at the D3 level that's limited by travel cost.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Scott_TG View Post
                Regarding a new measure to approve flights to separate high seeds in the early rounds of NCAA tourneys keeps getting pushed by the DIII Championships Committee. It is now supposed to be debated on their 3/19 video conference that's ahead of that committee's meeting with the NCAA Finance Committee/Board/People that approves money for their new measures...
                We'll see if this gets approved. I'm sure the current Gustavus seniors will be thrilled if legislature is now put in place for next season. They'll feel so worthy and good about themselves.

                Anyways, I also saw according to the Championships Committee, they are...

                1. Looking to can Pool B, making it one at-large pool.
                2. Lower the championship access ratio to 6:1, rather than the current 6.5:1. However, there is no "rounding up", meaning you would have to get to the next full number to warrant an expansion. If this does happen (I have no idea), we could have TWO new bids next year, with a 13-team field. As of right now, I believe is that we'll have 78 teams with the addition of Framingham State, Hood, Keene State, and I am assuming MSOE.

                Comment


                • Originally posted by VTpucksouteast View Post

                  We'll see if this gets approved. I'm sure the current Gustavus seniors will be thrilled if legislature is now put in place for next season. They'll feel so worthy and good about themselves.

                  Anyways, I also saw according to the Championships Committee, they are...

                  1. Looking to can Pool B, making it one at-large pool.
                  2. Lower the championship access ratio to 6:1, rather than the current 6.5:1. However, there is no "rounding up", meaning you would have to get to the next full number to warrant an expansion. If this does happen (I have no idea), we could have TWO new bids next year, with a 13-team field. As of right now, I believe is that we'll have 78 teams with the addition of Framingham State, Hood, Keene State, and I am assuming MSOE.
                  13-team bracket and no Pool B does hypothetically make things cleaner temporarily with all the moving pieces at hand. We'll see what comes of this "selection criteria database," but here's what it looks like with Pairwise.

                  Autobids:
                  CCC: Western New England (23)
                  MAC: Wilkes (26, assuming they take autobid)
                  MIAC: Gustavus (3)
                  NCHA: Adrian (5)
                  NEHC: Elmira (16)
                  NESCAC: Middlebury (6)
                  SUNYAC: Cortland (7)
                  UCHC: Nazareth (9)

                  At-Large:
                  River Falls (1)
                  Plattsburgh (2)
                  Amherst (4)
                  Hamilton (8)
                  Eau Claire (10)

                  Bracket

                  First Round:
                  10) Eau Claire at 3) Gustavus
                  11) Elmira at 9) Nazareth
                  13) Wilkes at 4) Amherst
                  12) WNEU at 6) Middlebury
                  8) Hamilton at 7) Cortland

                  QF:
                  10) UWEC/3) GAC at 1) River Falls
                  11) ELM/9) NAZ at 5) Adrian
                  13) WILK/4) AMH vs. 12) WNEU/6) MIDD
                  8) HAMIL/7) CORT at 2) Plattsburgh

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by VTpucksouteast View Post

                    13-team bracket and no Pool B does hypothetically make things cleaner temporarily with all the moving pieces at hand. We'll see what comes of this "selection criteria database," but here's what it looks like with Pairwise.

                    Autobids:
                    CCC: Western New England (23)
                    MAC: Wilkes (26, assuming they take autobid)
                    MIAC: Gustavus (3)
                    NCHA: Adrian (5)
                    NEHC: Elmira (16)
                    NESCAC: Middlebury (6)
                    SUNYAC: Cortland (7)
                    UCHC: Nazareth (9)

                    At-Large:
                    River Falls (1)
                    Plattsburgh (2)
                    Amherst (4)
                    Hamilton (8)
                    Eau Claire (10)

                    Bracket

                    First Round:
                    10) Eau Claire at 3) Gustavus
                    11) Elmira at 9) Nazareth
                    13) Wilkes at 4) Amherst
                    12) WNEU at 6) Middlebury
                    8) Hamilton at 7) Cortland

                    QF:
                    10) UWEC/3) GAC at 1) River Falls
                    11) ELM/9) NAZ at 5) Adrian
                    13) WILK/4) AMH vs. 12) WNEU/6) MIDD
                    8) HAMIL/7) CORT at 2) Plattsburgh
                    And then you could make a few crazy changes like this and you almost have a perfectly aligned bracket. I left UWRF playing the winner of the 7/11, separating Cortland and Plattsburgh and it would be possible with adding 1 possibly 2 flights max. Plus adding some East/West flavor to it.

                    First Round:
                    10) Eau Claire at 5) Adrian
                    11) Elmira at 7) Cortland
                    13) Wilkes at 4) Amherst
                    12) WNEU at 6) Middlebury
                    8) Hamilton at 9) Nazareth

                    QF:
                    10) UWEC/5) Adrian at 3) GAC
                    11) ELM/7) CORT at 1) River Falls
                    13) WILK/4) AMH vs. 12) WNEU/6) MIDD
                    8) HAMIL/9) NAZ at 2) Plattsburgh



                    Last edited by JDHack51; 03-11-2024, 08:34 PM.

                    Comment


                    • The WIAC may be moving backwards from their autobid dreams instead of forward. Affiliate Northland is making a public appeal for $12 million by April 3rd to avoid closure...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by JDHack51 View Post

                        And then you could make a few crazy changes like this and you almost have a perfectly aligned bracket. I left UWRF playing the winner of the 7/11, separating Cortland and Plattsburgh and it would be possible with adding 1 possibly 2 flights max. Plus adding some East/West flavor to it.

                        First Round:
                        10) Eau Claire at 5) Adrian
                        11) Elmira at 7) Cortland
                        13) Wilkes at 4) Amherst
                        12) WNEU at 6) Middlebury
                        8) Hamilton at 9) Nazareth

                        QF:
                        10) UWEC/5) Adrian at 3) GAC
                        11) ELM/7) CORT at 1) River Falls
                        13) WILK/4) AMH vs. 12) WNEU/6) MIDD
                        8) HAMIL/9) NAZ at 2) Plattsburgh


                        Would be nice. After this year, I'm assuming the worst with this committee and they get no benefit of the doubt until I see changed behavior. I can't assume any more of "the money will be spent." But yes, I do like your bracket a good bit. Maybe with the extra week in the calendar next year, they're more likely to do more pre-FF flights. Again, tell that to the Gustavus seniors this year.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Scott_TG View Post
                          The WIAC may be moving backwards from their autobid dreams instead of forward. Affiliate Northland is making a public appeal for $12 million by April 3rd to avoid closure...
                          That, unfortunately, will have an impact on all of Division lll as it will suppress the post-season at-large bids by 1 if this keeps the number of teams at 77.

                          Comment


                          • Aurora coach Jackie Kooistra stepping down. Over five seasons, led the Spartans to an 82-38-4 record and an NCHA tournament title. Pretty big loss for a program she lifted off the ground. They looked to be an up-and-coming contender before backsliding in 23-24. The trajectory was still high though. Make or break hire incoming

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by VTpucksouteast View Post

                              We'll see if this gets approved. I'm sure the current Gustavus seniors will be thrilled if legislature is now put in place for next season. They'll feel so worthy and good about themselves.
                              Didn't they propose this relatively recently and it was voted down?

                              Anyways, I also saw according to the Championships Committee, they are...

                              1. Looking to can Pool B, making it one at-large pool.
                              2. Lower the championship access ratio to 6:1, rather than the current 6.5:1. However, there is no "rounding up", meaning you would have to get to the next full number to warrant an expansion. If this does happen (I have no idea), we could have TWO new bids next year, with a 13-team field. As of right now, I believe is that we'll have 78 teams with the addition of Framingham State, Hood, Keene State, and I am assuming MSOE.
                              I've been thinking about this recently. The ratio is fine and dandy. I don't have a problem with using a ratio, however you want to (reasonably) set it. But just like there is a maximum number of teams allowed (64), I think there should be a minimum number of teams allowed -- 16.

                              I'm too lazy to look it up, but I wonder what other tournaments have less than 16 teams due to the sport being small and the ratio. But with women climbing to 13 with the new ratio, and presumably the men will climb to pretty darn close to 16, just make the minimum 16. Especially if there are other sports which are pretty darn close, too.
                              Russell Jaslow
                              [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                              U.S. College Hockey Online

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post

                                Didn't they propose this relatively recently and it was voted down?
                                My understanding (not 100% sure) is that it wasn't a down vote it was tabled for future discussion...

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