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Harvard 2023-24: Now is the Winter

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  • #16
    Originally posted by Skate79 View Post
    . Perhaps too idealistic but I have always found that if you go looking for hatred, you'll find it. If you look for violence, you'll find it. And if you search for peace, you will find it as well.
    Well said.

    Wish I could locate a metaphor from the Iliad that John Finley impressed on our brains in Hum 2 back in 1963:
    Something about how Zeus has two groups of children, the Furies and the Pities, and the Furies are fleet of foot, and race into all countries, bringing discord, but the Pities are lame of foot, and can only hobble after them as they seek to bring peace.

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    • #17
      So Taze Thompson scores Northeastern's winning goal.....

      "For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!' "

      Thanks a bunch, Katey

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Watson Rink View Post
        So Taze Thompson scores Northeastern's winning goal.....

        "For of all sad words of tongue or pen, The saddest are these: 'It might have been!' "

        Thanks a bunch, Katey
        Thompson apparently has had great success in the Beanpot so it probably should not have been a surprise that she would score the winning goal. Collateral damage from the Stone fallout as you point out.

        Of greater concern should be the number of games where Harvard is being blown out. They aren't competitive and it will likely take several years of outstanding recruiting classes to get back to a Top 4 team in the conference. That's assuming that Harvard can put together a string of outstanding classes.

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        • #19
          While it's not official, it's a foregone conclusion that Harvard will finish in the basement of the ECAC. The program has hit rock bottom. It may take years for the Crimson to become contenders again. Sad.

          Comment


          • #20
            Still, we are lucky that the team got a new coach with a strong resume. Just the opposite for the (men's, LOL) football team, for whom the AD just performed a quickie search and hired the Rutgers tight ends coach to replace legend Tim Murphy over other candidates like Harvard's longtime defensive coordinator.

            Link to outraged fb alumni and donors:

            https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...mott-backlash/

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            • #21
              Still, the team has gotten a new head coach with a distinguished resume. In contrast, the (men's, LOL) football team has just learned that the AD is hiring, as a replacement for the legendary Tim Murphy, the Rutgers tight ends coach (!!) over Harvard's longtime defensive coordinator and various other candidates with head coach and coordinator experience.

              Link to outrage from fb alumni and donors here:

              https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...mott-backlash/
              Last edited by Watson Rink; 02-11-2024, 12:16 PM. Reason: Sorry, had gotten an error message saying the server was unable to post my first post, but the error message was erroneous

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              • #22
                Originally posted by Skate79 View Post
                While it's not official, it's a foregone conclusion that Harvard will finish in the basement of the ECAC. The program has hit rock bottom. It may take years for the Crimson to become contenders again. Sad.
                With the portal being so thick with players at this time in history, it may be a quicker way to get better faster.
                Wisconsin Hockey: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 WE WANT MORE!
                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Come to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
                ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
                "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
                Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

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                • #23
                  I'm not sure Harvard is going to open their doors to transfers the way they do in Columbus or other places. Further, I'm not sure how many players who have been on scholarship would want to pay the tuition bill there. Like Skate79, I see it as a long road back to competitive hockey.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Watson Rink View Post
                    Still, the team has gotten a new head coach with a distinguished resume. In contrast, the (men's, LOL) football team has just learned that the AD is hiring, as a replacement for the legendary Tim Murphy, the Rutgers tight ends coach (!!) over Harvard's longtime defensive coordinator and various other candidates with head coach and coordinator experience.

                    Link to outrage from fb alumni and donors here:

                    https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...mott-backlash/
                    Laura Bellamy was hired with zero head coaching experience. It remains to be seen if she was a wise choice to resurrect the program.

                    Plenty of assistants get head coaching gigs with zero head coaching experience. Especially in football. Ronn Tommasoni was appointed head coach after Bill Cleary retired from the men's hockey program. Ronn had no previous head coaching experience at the collegiate level but was Billy's assistant and top recruiter for much of the eighties. The first few years were good but soon thereafter, the program fell on hard times. Appointing an assistant from within doesn't always work out.

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                    • #25
                      Originally posted by bodyup88 View Post
                      I'm not sure Harvard is going to open their doors to transfers the way they do in Columbus or other places. Further, I'm not sure how many players who have been on scholarship would want to pay the tuition bill there. Like Skate79, I see it as a long road back to competitive hockey.
                      The non scholarship thing gets me all the time.
                      Wisconsin Hockey: 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, 11 WE WANT MORE!
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Come to the Wisconsin Evangelical Lutheran Synod
                      ------------------------------------------------------------------------------
                      Originally Posted by Wisko McBadgerton:
                      "Baggot says Hughes and Rockwood are centering the top two lines...
                      Timothy A --> Great hockey mind... Or Greatest hockey mind?!?"

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by bodyup3859059
                        I'm not sure Harvard is going to open their doors to transfers the way they do in Columbus or other places. Further, I'm not sure how many players who have been on scholarship would want to pay the tuition bill there. Like Skate79, I see it as a long road back to competitive hockey.
                        We have financial aid for student/athletes who qualify. Not the same as a full ride but it does help reduce the burden. The Dartmouth men's basketball case before the NLRB full board bears watching as several Ivy athletes are in support of their application and there is talk of forming an Ivy League Players Association if the NLRB full board votes in favor of Dartmouth's case. This would change the dynamic of compensation for athletes and allow Harvard and other Ivies to broaden their reach for athletes who otherwise could not afford to attend the University. Many miles to go before this comes to fruition and I expect Harvard to fight this tooth and nail.

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                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Skate79 View Post

                          We have financial aid for student/athletes who qualify. Not the same as a full ride but it does help reduce the burden. The Dartmouth men's basketball case before the NLRB full board bears watching as several Ivy athletes are in support of their application and there is talk of forming an Ivy League Players Association if the NLRB full board votes in favor of Dartmouth's case. This would change the dynamic of compensation for athletes and allow Harvard and other Ivies to broaden their reach for athletes who otherwise could not afford to attend the University. Many miles to go before this comes to fruition and I expect Harvard to fight this tooth and nail.
                          So now how do the Ivy's keep up with the "we only give money to athletes based on need"? Is there an Ivy League Players Association in each sport??? Do the schools now decide to funnel funding to each Players Association some how some way or does each Ivy School have an NIL funded by deep pocket alumni that funds money to the Players Association or directly to the players? Or do the Ivy's now come into the 21st century and give scholarships based on ability and need and still have to deal with a Players Assn. 15,000 seat hockey and basketball arenas are just around the corner to pay for all this LOL.
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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by vicb View Post

                            So now how do the Ivy's keep up with the "we only give money to athletes based on need"? Is there an Ivy League Players Association in each sport??? Do the schools now decide to funnel funding to each Players Association somehow some way or does each Ivy School have an NIL funded by deep-pocket alumni that funds money to the Players Association or directly to the players? Or do the Ivy's now come into the 21st century and give scholarships based on ability and need and still have to deal with a Players Assn? 15,000-seat hockey and basketball arenas are just around the corner to pay for all this LOL.
                            Unfortunately, I don't have concrete answers to your questions. Here's what I do know:

                            1. At this point, the proposed Ivy Players Association would encompass both men and women from a variety of sports. That could all change if the women decided to form their own Association and I imagine at some point, they would do exactly that.

                            2. The schools would not funnel money to the Players Association because that would set a bad precedent for on-campus staff that are represented by unions.

                            3. Deep-pocketed alumni could make contributions to the Players Association or NIL instead of gifts to the University. There is precedent at Harvard to have gifts targeted to specific organizations on campus and I could see former athletes wanting to contribute to the Association. Harvard as well as the other Ivies I'm sure would not want to lose potential donations to their endowments vis a vie a gift to the Players Association but they may not have a choice.

                            4. Funny you should bring up athletic scholarships. A good friend from Dartmouth told me recently that the Congressional antitrust exemption preventing the Ivies from offering athletic scholarships expired on January 1st of this year. As of now, the Ivies can offer athletic scholarships.

                            4. As I mentioned in my post, there are many miles to go before anything is set in stone. Harvard, along with the other Ivies, will continue to fight this proposal if it passes the full NLRB. Dartmouth is already gearing up to fight the initial ruling. I could see the day when the Ivies will do one of two things: a). break off from leagues like the ECAC and play an independent schedule of schools that don't offer scholarships or b). leave D-1 entirely and make all athletics club teams open to any student on campus. Athletics at the Ivies are not money-makers like the Big Ten or SEC. So, there may come a time when the Ivies have to decide how important these teams are to life on campus. Judging by the attendance at Harvard events, the kids could care less.
                            Last edited by Skate79; 02-17-2024, 01:01 PM.

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                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Skate79 View Post

                              Unfortunately, I don't have concrete answers to your questions. Here's what I do know:

                              1. At this point, the proposed Ivy Players Association would encompass both men and women from a variety of sports. That could all change if the women decided to form their own Association and I imagine at some point, they would do exactly that.

                              2. The schools would not funnel money to the Players Association because that would set a bad precedent for on-campus staff that are represented by unions.

                              3. Deep-pocketed alumni could make contributions to the Players Association or NIL instead of gifts to the University. There is precedent at Harvard to have gifts targeted to specific organizations on campus and I could see former athletes wanting to contribute to the Association. Harvard as well as the other Ivies I'm sure would not want to lose potential donations to their endowments vis a vie a gift to the Players Association but they may not have a choice.

                              4. Funny you should bring up athletic scholarships. A good friend from Dartmouth told me recently that the Congressional antitrust exemption preventing the Ivies from offering athletic scholarships expired on January 1st of this year. As of now, the Ivies can offer athletic scholarships.

                              4. As I mentioned in my post, there are many miles to go before anything is set in stone. Harvard, along with the other Ivies, will continue to fight this proposal if it passes the full NLRB. Dartmouth is already gearing up to fight the initial ruling. I could see the day when the Ivies will do one of two things: a). break off from leagues like the ECAC and play an independent schedule of schools that don't offer scholarships or b). leave D-1 entirely and make all athletics club teams open to any student on campus. Athletics at the Ivies are not money-makers like the Big Ten or SEC. So, there may come a time when the Ivies have to decide how important these teams are to life on campus. Judging by the attendance at Harvard events, the kids could care less.
                              Thanks for your post.

                              "As of now, the Ivies can offer athletic scholarships." I guess the question is will they? And if so when?
                              "a. break off from leagues like the ECAC and play an independent schedule of schools that don't offer scholarships" Go Division 3????
                              "or b). leave D-1 entirely and make all athletics club teams open to any student on campus" Wonder how loud if any the outcry would be from alumni????

                              I myself am wondering how much longer the Div 3 play up schools like Clarkson/SLU/RPI have to say they have had enough due to rising costs and lack of income from the sports compared to the larger schools and get out of Div I hockey. It will be a sad day if it comes to this.
                              Last edited by vicb; 02-17-2024, 01:49 PM.
                              Fan of CLARKSON: 2014, 2017 & 2018 NC$$ WOMEN'S DIV 1 HOCKEY NATIONAL CHAMPIONS *******https://fanforum.uscho.com/core/images/smilies/smile.gi*********
                              And of 3 Patty Kaz recepients: Jamie Lee Rattray, Loren Gabel and Elizabeth Giguere
                              WHOOOOOOOOO WHOOOOOOOOO
                              If Union Can Do It So Can CCT (One of These Years) *******https://fanforum.uscho.com/core/images/smilies/smile.gi*********

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                              • #30
                                Originally posted by vicb View Post

                                Thanks for your post.

                                "As of now, the Ivies can offer athletic scholarships." I guess the question is will they? And if so when?
                                "a. break off from leagues like the ECAC and play an independent schedule of schools that don't offer scholarships" Go Division 3????
                                "or b). leave D-1 entirely and make all athletics club teams open to any student on campus" Wonder how loud if any the outcry would be from alumni????

                                I myself am wondering how much longer the Div 3 play up schools like Clarkson/SLU/RPI have to say they have had enough due to rising costs and lack of income from the sports compared to the larger schools and get out of Div I hockey. It will be a sad day if it comes to this.
                                A sad day indeed. I don't want it to come to what I wrote in my post but it's not up to me to decide. At this point, facilities maintenance is a big cost factor and that will only go up in the coming years. UNH and Maine are planning major upgrades to their rinks in the next year or so. Dartmouth is planning a renovation to Thompson Arena that will move the women's locker room downstairs behind the home team bench and make other cosmetic changes for fans. Meehan Auditorium at Brown is in desperate need of renovation or a complete rebuild. Harvard has already sunk major $$ into the renovation of Bright Landry significantly improving the experience for players, coaches, and fans. At some point, corporate sponsorships may be required to offset costs and keep these programs in D-1. I get your point about Clarkson/SLU/RPI (you could also add Union). Hopefully, there will be a way to keep the conference together in the future. Too many great rivalries have been developed over the years to abandon ship.

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