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PHF Purchased, Teams to Be Folded Into New PWHPA League

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  • #61
    Originally posted by Scott_TG View Post
    The Miles Arnone interview is very illuminating

    https://thehockeynews.com/womens/phf...-and-much-more
    After reading that (and wow, what a read), now it feels like the limit of six teams in this new league is more about keeping it small enough to be sure the league is filled with PWHPA players as much as possible, until they will begrudgingly have to fill any remaining spots with PHF players. How shortsighted it is to dump all the experience of the PHF management/coaches/staffs just because they were "the other guys". Who cares? If the advancement of women's hockey were the real inspiration for a new league, all that PHF experience would be welcomed by this new league. It looks more like a giant ego trip for King-Walters, among others.

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    • #62
      Originally posted by tedlasso View Post
      As I said, Lindsay, I certainly hope you are right. But I feel like Russell Jaslow is likely more on the right track.

      After reading the Miles Arnone interview, I feel even more pessimistic than ever about the situation. I think more girls coming out of college are just going to quit hockey. It's just not a sustainable living for most people. Which of course is ironic since that is what the PWHPA claimed they were fighting for. While we all agree that one league was and is necessary, this was just a huge step backwards for womens hockey. Like a decade backwards. And anyone reading the CBA right off the bat realized that the 3% wasn't even keeping up with inflation. So a girl 8 years from now will actually be getting paid less. I'm glad Arnone, who was on the inside, articulated what a lot of us were already thinking. Just a bummer that all of that progress by the PHF was for naught.
      We will have to wait and see what transpires.

      It’s sad to me that the narrative elsewhere has gotten so toxic so fast again. Definitely appreciate the respectful discourse here. I think Knox and Packer had it right with their positivity and diplomacy after the sale a couple weeks ago.

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      • #63
        Would agree that there is as many open questions as before. Namely if this (yet another) new league will be able to generate enough revenue to support the players demands, or if some benefactor will come in and prop it up. Just me but I draw a very big line between the support given to the women's game at the youth and college level, and then what is considered pro. I've seen what athletics can do for young girls, teenagers and a goal to shoot for to the college ranks. But a pro league is supposed to be that - you want to make a career out of playing a sport, it needs to "sell itself" to generate enough revenue. Any money given to prop up a pro league is much better spent giving it to youth and even some college programs to broaden women's hockey participation, not give as salaries/benefits to a few at the top so they can keep playing beyond college. My read on that article is they are hoping for NHL support. I would hope the NHL, whatever money they can allocate to support the women's game, is directed at the youth level to get more girls playing. My 2-cents, maybe not the most popular opinion.

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        • #64
          Originally posted by ZedLeppelin View Post

          It looks more like a giant ego trip for King-Walters, among others.
          Hard to imagine that came from anywhere other than Coyne/Knight/Nurse (why would BJK care…?). They’re the architects of the “destroy the PHF at all costs” vendetta. All very small and sad. I’m glad Arnone had the gumption to share all of this - it will be lost in the noise as this moves forward, but I’m still glad it’s out there.

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          • #65
            What I took from Arnone's interview, granted his perspective is from the PHF, is that the PWHPA cares not for women's hockey as a whole, but keeping the North American professional level reserved to a small-select in-crowd associated with the Canadian and US national programs.

            All of the best ways to accomplish this is how this shook out: one small league with wages not likely to meet the living needs of players without other sources of income (national team money and high level endorsements only available to thw Olympian set), a direct tie to the NHL, and the history of any other way of doing business crushed.

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            • #66
              Originally posted by tedlasso View Post
              But I don't think Roger Goodell is making personnel decisions on every, single team. Different owners and different coaches in other leagues allow for difference of opinion.
              Ask Colin Kaepernick about this.

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              • #67
                I feel the salary minimums in the CBA are somewhat underrated. They are expected to be higher in the new league than they were expected at any time to be in the PHF for what that's worth.

                - In the PHF, minimums per team were $30k for 20 players, and $13.5k for 2-5 others, as reported in April by TIG and Melissa Burgess.
                - In the new league, the minimums per team are $80k for 6 players, $35k for 17 others, and $15k each for the reserves beyond that.

                The salary distributions that we can expect are unclear, though. Each team has to achieve a $55k average, though they might do so by paying a few players substantially above the $80k rate and most closer to $35k. Given that only 9 players can be paid at league minimum per team (according to reports of the CBA), perhaps some players could be paid only $500 more than that minimum? Alternatively, more evenly, the average would work out if 9 players are paid $80k and 17 are paid $46-46.5k. (Reportedly, no one on the Riveters or Pride was making close to PHF minimum; it's unclear that the new league will follow those teams' model.) The concern about the 3% yearly raise with inflation remains valid.

                In this new article about potential players to build teams around, I am glad that the author Emily Sadler mentions both Keller and Mueller (along with Poulin, Knight, Nurse, Heise, and Desbiens). As in Vicb's fantasy team on the Women's Worlds thread, I think that if you pick Mueller you also need to pick Aurard as they're great together.

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                • #68
                  Originally posted by MAHOCKEY FAN View Post
                  I have followed the Boston Pride for 8 years and gone to over 30 games. While I hate the league name…..they really put on a good show. Go to a Saturday game and the place was packed with girls teams attending. sundays were more difficult due to the girls leagues playing on Sundays. Getting the games on ESPN+ was a real win vs the Twitch years….although the side commentary was fun.

                  So one league was always the dream. The pwhpa constantly complained that the league didn’t have safety, or insurance, or good enough salaries. When these were addressed it still wasn’t enough for these women. They were absolute snobs insisting only they knew how to do it right. …but they were incapable of putting together anything substainable themselves. Many women put their trust in this leadership….and waited. Now many of them along with phf players will be ending their careers.

                  funny how you buyout the league that does everything wrong. And have been publicly insulted the other league.

                  no Boston team is ridiculous….when it comes to fans….look at USA hockey registrations…MA is a hotbed along with Minnesota….you need fans….there is a solid base in Boston.

                  1 league is great.
                  these women are entitled snobs. Obviously no Boston team so difficult to attend…..but I will not be a fan.
                  I just read Miles interview…..and stand by everything I said. This will be a new league for the Olympic players and there will be no room for the players or staff who BUilt the first PAID women’s hockey league…..

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                  • #69
                    Originally posted by BowWowWow View Post
                    I feel the salary minimums in the CBA are somewhat underrated. They are expected to be higher in the new league than they were expected at any time to be in the PHF for what that's worth.

                    - In the PHF, minimums per team were $30k for 20 players, and $13.5k for 2-5 others, .
                    Yes. $53,000 per year in PW league when you add in the housing allowance.

                    I think the energy is better spent on pushing for almost immediate expansion.

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                    • #70
                      Originally posted by Lindsay View Post

                      Yes. $53,000 per year in PW league when you add in the housing allowance.

                      I think the energy is better spent on pushing for almost immediate expansion.
                      I agree about expansion. An important part about the housing allowance turns out to be: “Housing stipends will be paid to cover pre-season & at least one week beyond the end of the team's season” (from Melissa Burgess). (Reports are that this is standard for many leagues.)

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                      • #71
                        Originally posted by BowWowWow View Post

                        I agree about expansion. An important part about the housing allowance turns out to be: “Housing stipends will be paid to cover pre-season & at least one week beyond the end of the team's season” (from Melissa Burgess). (Reports are that this is standard for many leagues.)
                        Ahh good point on the housing allowance

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                        • #72
                          Originally posted by Lindsay View Post

                          Yes. $53,000 per year in PW league when you add in the housing allowance.

                          I think the energy is better spent on pushing for almost immediate expansion.
                          How are they affording all this. Housing allowance, $23k per player, 6 teams, 28 players per team(with practice players). 23,000*6*28=$3,864,000 in housing allowance alone. Salaries are $1,100,000 per team, or $6,600,000 total. So combined, before meal stipend, moving allowances, health insurance, travel costs, coaches, staffing, they are at $10,464,000, am I doing my math correctly?

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                          • #73
                            Originally posted by HockeyGuy362 View Post

                            How are they affording all this. Housing allowance, $23k per player, 6 teams, 28 players per team(with practice players). 23,000*6*28=$3,864,000 in housing allowance alone. Salaries are $1,100,000 per team, or $6,600,000 total. So combined, before meal stipend, moving allowances, health insurance, travel costs, coaches, staffing, they are at $10,464,000, am I doing my math correctly?
                            Also, if doing my math correctly.
                            6 teams
                            16 home games(assume 32 game season)
                            96 total home games
                            2000 fans per game
                            192,000 fans
                            $20 average ticket price

                            $3,840,000 in total revenue

                            Also forgot in my previous email, cost doesn't include ice team. And my math was wrong, should be $3,840,000 for housing allowance.

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                            • #74
                              Deleted, double posted

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                              • #75
                                Originally posted by HockeyGuy362 View Post

                                How are they affording all this. ?
                                As I understand it Mark and Kimbra Walters identify as philanthropists. They also have a wnba team and recently put money into squash (the sport, not the vegetable). Mark is worth $5.5 billion dollars according to Forbes.

                                Even if he put $250 million dollars into this league we are talking about 4.5% of his unfathomably large net worth.

                                The women have an 8 year CBA signed with his company.

                                So, and I’m not being a smart *** when I say this because I’m not a union guru—— but I think the signed CBA means this has to be supported for 8 years. And so for 8 years the women don’t have to worry about their league folding/ dissolving overnight which has happened maybe 4 times in the last 2 decades (old nw, wwhl, cwhl, PHF).

                                Having a wealthy owner is not to say the league and supporters shouldn’t do everything they can do to drive revenue, sponsorships, and television rights sales. I’ll have to go Re read it but it seems like Arnone thinks that stuff will happen.

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