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PHF Purchased, Teams to Be Folded Into New PWHPA League

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  • #46
    Originally posted by MAHOCKEY FAN View Post

    So the PHF management over promised……and the new management team did what? They let all the staff go….after saying they were not…..I agree the PHF was signing a lot of really big contracts…..who do you think knew? Coaches? GMs?….
    I think that coaches and GMs didn’t know and only owners did. Based on their quotes afterward, the Boyntons were involved in the sale from 2022 on. The start of the deal may somewhat predate the raising of the salary cap for 2023–24.

    According to Stan Kasten, the people involved had been in a thorough non-disclosure agreement that prevented them from telling anyone about the sale as it was pending. He said the PWHPA’s operations consultant Jayna Hefford didn’t know about the sale in advance. She was the first person he told that the Mark Walter Group had acquired assets of the PHF.

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    • #47
      The problem with this new league is that it's still the national teams in charge behind the scenes. So if a player isn't one of the chosen ones through USA Hockey or Hockey Canada, I can't imagine that player is going to have much luck breaking into the new league. And the national team players will be the ones that make all the money (or most of it) because it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy.

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      • #48
        Originally posted by tedlasso View Post
        The problem with this new league is that it's still the national teams in charge behind the scenes. So if a player isn't one of the chosen ones through USA Hockey or Hockey Canada, I can't imagine that player is going to have much luck breaking into the new league. And the national team players will be the ones that make all the money (or most of it) because it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy.
        Every league, in every sport, is controlled by someone, and a player that isn't liked by the people in charge isn't likely to get to play. There's nothing different here.

        In every league, in every sport, the best players will make most of the money. Check out the wage scales in the NFL. There's nothing different here.

        Aside from which, USA Hockey and Team Canada, between them, do not have enough players to stock six rosters. So, there are going to be plenty of players who are not among the Chosen Ones whi play.

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        • #49
          This prior post is just reckless in its simplicity. "every league is controlled by someone ..." Yes. Every league IS controlled by someone. But I don't think Roger Goodell is making personnel decisions on every, single team. Different owners and different coaches in other leagues allow for difference of opinion. I don't know of another league where every, single team is controlled by the same owner.

          Moreover, of course the better players make more money. But again, in this case, the person deciding who the "better" players are is the same for every, single team. So I would say there IS something different here.

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          • #50
            Originally posted by tedlasso View Post
            But again, in this case, the person deciding who the "better" players are is the same for every, single team.
            The only thing that sounds fair is to have a draft, but then how do you decide the order of picks? Of course most (or all) of Team USA and Team Canada are going to be in this new league, that's pretty obvious, but that still leaves four teams worth of roster spots open. How do you distribute Team USA and Team Canada players to begin with, before even getting to everyone else? I can't see any team management agreeing to fill their roster with players they didn't choose.

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            • #51
              [QUOTE=ZedLeppelin;n3819761]

              The only thing that sounds fair is to have a draft, but then how do you decide the order of picks? Of course most (or all) of Team USA and Team Canada are going to be in this new league, that's pretty obvious, but that still leaves four teams worth of roster spots open. How do you distribute Team USA and Team Canada players to begin with, before even getting to everyone else? I can't see any team management agreeing to fill their roster with players they didn't choose.[/QUOTE

              I suppose Canada and US both have player pools greater than their 23 person rosters. So US Can national team pool might take up close to 4 rosters. Some of that pool is college players of course.

              Lots to figure out.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by tedlasso View Post
                The problem with this new league is that it's still the national teams in charge behind the scenes. So if a player isn't one of the chosen ones through USA Hockey or Hockey Canada, I can't imagine that player is going to have much luck breaking into the new league. And the national team players will be the ones that make all the money (or most of it) because it's just a self-fulfilling prophecy.
                It’s also possible some players on Team Canada or US get exposed as not the best players, afterall. Even if they are favored which I won’t dispute, they are not going to fill out six rosters. Those pool players that rarely break through (Gabel) and the ones that barely get tryouts (Grant-Mentis) have a great opportunity here.


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                • #53
                  I am not sure I agree with that, Lindsay. I view your post as wishful thinking, and I hope you are right. But the reality is that the money is going to get eaten up by the national team women (who I presume will get double paid from both the national governing body and the league.) What is really going to be left over for other women who have never been given a chance by the governing body? The wages at the lower end won't be enough to live on (unless wealthier families or savings or other means), so these women will need to have second jobs. Aren't we right back to where we started for those that haven't been "chosen." Will these women have to pay for very little because someone at USA Hockey or Hockey Canada didn't think they were good enough? So the opportunities, as you say, will only come if someone can play for the lowest salaries and only if they are willing to fill out the third and fourth lines. I haven't been very eloquent in what I have been trying to say, but here is a quote from Miles Arnone from the Hockey News article. This guy invested millions, and what he has to say is pretty poignant:

                  "What this was really about was a small number of US and Canadian national team players wanting to control their own destiny, period. It would have been a lot easier for everyone if they’d just been up front about that instead of hiding that motivation and asserting it was all about justice, and working conditions and rights, which it just wasn’t."

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                  • #54
                    The Miles Arnone interview is very illuminating

                    https://thehockeynews.com/womens/phf...-and-much-more

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                    • #55
                      So, not only did the Mark Walter Group and Billie Jean King Enterprises negotiate the PHF sale without this being at all transparent for the PWHPA, but they also negotiated the CBA with the PWHPA bargaining committee without it being at all transparent for the PHF owners. They then naturally pulled up the curtains for both PWHPA and PHF groups when the sale was announced to them at the same time as the CBA was finalized. It has seemed by the Mark Walter Group/Stan Kasten's logic that the deals would be more advantageous to their own interests if they were done simultaneously. Interviews that I have seen, though, have not touched on whether the PHF unionization process impacted the deals.

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Lindsay View Post
                        I suppose Canada and US both have player pools greater than their 23 person rosters. So US Can national team pool might take up close to 4 rosters. Some of that pool is college players of course.
                        The Dream Gap Tour was four teams, so yeah, they should have enough for four rosters. (And yes, I understand not everyone on the Dream Gap Tour teams were signed by Team USA or Team Canada. But, they are the ones who held out, and quite frankly, despite what everyone is saying publically, they are the ones who are going to virtually be guaranteed a spot on one of the six rosters.)
                        Last edited by Russell Jaslow; 07-17-2023, 09:10 PM.
                        Russell Jaslow
                        [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                        U.S. College Hockey Online

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                        • #57
                          Originally posted by BowWowWow View Post
                          So, not only did the Mark Walter Group and Billie Jean King Enterprises negotiate the PHF sale without this being at all transparent for the PWHPA, but they also negotiated the CBA with the PWHPA bargaining committee without it being at all transparent for the PHF owners. They then naturally pulled up the curtains for both PWHPA and PHF groups when the sale was announced to them at the same time as the CBA was finalized. It has seemed by the Mark Walter Group/Stan Kasten's logic that the deals would be more advantageous to their own interests if they were done simultaneously. Interviews that I have seen, though, have not touched on whether the PHF unionization process impacted the deals.
                          Which brings up a legal question. Is this enough to void the CBA if it's challenged?
                          Russell Jaslow
                          [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                          U.S. College Hockey Online

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                          • #58
                            Originally posted by Scott_TG View Post
                            The Miles Arnone interview is very illuminating

                            https://thehockeynews.com/womens/phf...-and-much-more
                            Wow.

                            Not surprised. I was assuming and surmising a lot of the same stuff, and I was never privy to any inside information. Miles was, and he is saying it.

                            I also have this ugly feeling that we might not even see any teams starting play in January... This might turn out to be a dumb*ss prediction, so I won't go into detail why I feel that way just yet.
                            Russell Jaslow
                            [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                            U.S. College Hockey Online

                            Comment


                            • #59
                              Originally posted by tedlasso View Post
                              I am not sure I agree with that, Lindsay. I view your post as wishful thinking, and I hope you are right. But the reality is that the money is going to get eaten up by the national team women (who I presume will get double paidt."
                              As far as making Team Canada you are probably right. The program likes who it likes. Nonetheless third line or not the likes of Gabel etc are finally going to be in the same league as the national team players and can prove on the ice what they’ve got. I just don’t buy that a coach is going to bench Gabel and put out a 4th line energy player for Team Canada. Bettez used cwhl play to fight her way on to Team Canada a few years back. Problem was what she really had was chemistry with Poulin , who kept getting hurt at the time. No reason there can’t be another situation like that, but it won’t be easy because yes the programs like who they like. Mathematically every national team player is not going to make $80k plus in the new league. There will be national team and pool players making closer to the average.
                              Last edited by Lindsay; 07-18-2023, 06:33 AM.

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                              • #60
                                As I said, Lindsay, I certainly hope you are right. But I feel like Russell Jaslow is likely more on the right track.

                                After reading the Miles Arnone interview, I feel even more pessimistic than ever about the situation. I think more girls coming out of college are just going to quit hockey. It's just not a sustainable living for most people. Which of course is ironic since that is what the PWHPA claimed they were fighting for. While we all agree that one league was and is necessary, this was just a huge step backwards for womens hockey. Like a decade backwards. And anyone reading the CBA right off the bat realized that the 3% wasn't even keeping up with inflation. So a girl 8 years from now will actually be getting paid less. I'm glad Arnone, who was on the inside, articulated what a lot of us were already thinking. Just a bummer that all of that progress by the PHF was for naught.

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