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PHF Purchased, Teams to Be Folded Into New PWHPA League

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  • Isn't the elephant in the room with all of this that most of these women won't even be making a livable wage? The top 36 women will do fine (and they are getting double paid by their national teams), but most of the women filling out the rosters are going to be at the league minimum with no negotiating position and no leverage. I think anyone who participates in this forum wants the league to succeed, but this compensation structure that was "negotiated" by only the women at the top of the pyramid is untenable. Bummer for most of the women in the league.

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    • 100% agree, this league was made for 36 players

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      • Originally posted by tedlasso View Post
        Isn't the elephant in the room with all of this that most of these women won't even be making a livable wage? The top 36 women will do fine (and they are getting double paid by their national teams), but most of the women filling out the rosters are going to be at the league minimum with no negotiating position and no leverage. I think anyone who participates in this forum wants the league to succeed, but this compensation structure that was "negotiated" by only the women at the top of the pyramid is untenable. Bummer for most of the women in the league.
        Every time I try to give this league a chance, I keep coming back to the various issues. And this is one of the most important ones.
        Russell Jaslow
        [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
        U.S. College Hockey Online

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        • I like the names. Complete absence of s is new, but overall I like ‘em. Kinda wish Ottawa was Alerts if that’s what the original team was but oh well.

          no need to over think it.

          trying to think of the coolest team name I ever played for. Lots of pretty vanilla ones. Played for a team called Lux Cleaners (back when dry cleaning was a thing) and we had the old Vancouver colors so went by Lux Canucks. That was cool. My first ever team. My last team was called Team CLE. Pronounced see-el-ee but everyone thought it was pronounced Klee and eventually we were known as Team Cleavage. Ah well. beloved team nonetheless, who of course has since been renamed, because that’s how things go.

          I’m glad the PW possibly has team names!

          fwiw if I ever started a team with no s I would call them the Legacy. Enough of this trailblazer stuff, girl hockey players today are part of a legacy and it’s time we start acting like it and the world reflects it. If Cleveland ever got a PW team I’d petition for the Lake Erie Legacy.

          What would you all name the teams?

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          • That's a useful perspective about the team names, and the turns or changes that names sometimes take, Lindsay! I feel they will probably grow on the fanbase.

            The wage structure is an issue, as tedlasso brings up, with at least 36 players making above $80k per year yet many others bringing down the average. I think that the housing stipend in the season will help!

            I've got some small ideas about the team brands/names:
            1 Regarding the Toronto Torch, artists typically show Furies with torches. Could this be a callback to the Toronto Furies by association? (They were also blue.)
            2 A commenter pointed out that "CH," as in "Echo" for Montreal, appears in the Habs logo. That CH might figure in the Echo logo if the NHL team would allow it. (The CWHL Canadiennes similarly referred back to them.)
            3 In 1915-1930, the Ottawa Alerts reportedly wore yellow and black, with a diagonal band reading "Alerts." While the main color for the Ottawa team is bright red, yellow and black highlights could be cool. And/or they have a band saying "Alert."
            4 Minnesota's purple is reminiscent of the Lakers basketball team.
            5 A green "Wicked" logo perhaps might sadly cause a trademark issue with the show Wicked - if Boston also uses a witch theme as some are theorizing.
            6 The NY Sound will play in the same rink as the Bridgeport Islanders, who were the Sound Tigers until 2 years ago.

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            • Originally posted by BowWowWow View Post
              That's a useful perspective about the team names, and the turns or changes that names sometimes take, Lindsay! I feel they will probably grow on the fanbase.

              The wage structure is an issue, as tedlasso brings up, with at least 36 players making above $80k per year yet many others bringing down the average. I think that the housing stipend in the season will help!

              .
              Also the lack of transparency. Although it’s fair to note the % difference in payouts are still more disparate in mens sports, even if you consider the national team players who are being paid twice.

              It will be interesting to see how USA Hockey and Hockey Canada negotiate their next contracts as well. USA Hockey already went heavy on college kids which conveniently saved them payroll.

              love the team name commentary! I didn’t think of the Torch - Fury connection. Same with CH within Echo.

              Superior and Torch both strike me a referencing the leadership role Minn and TO have played in growing the game.


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              • 36 players make 80k or more ( mostly national team players already and making $$ from that) .with the minimums and the average salary reguriements, it doesn’t look like everyone will have a living salary. Especially tru in NY/Boston areas ( I know little about cost of living in Canada ). Please Explain to me where progress has been made? I understand this is a work in progress….but right now it is only better for the women that would not play before.

                How do we know what teams have signed their drafted players? Any salary transparency?

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                • Originally posted by MAHOCKEY FAN View Post
                  36 players make 80k or more ( mostly national team players already and making $$ from that) .with the minimums and the average salary reguriements, it doesn’t look like everyone will have a living salary. Especially tru in NY/Boston areas ( I know little about cost of living in Canada ). Please Explain to me where progress has been made? I understand this is a work in progress….but right now it is only better for the women that would not play before.

                  How do we know what teams have signed their drafted players? Any salary transparency?
                  The league minimum was $13500 in the PHF last year

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                  • Originally posted by MAHOCKEY FAN View Post
                    36 players make 80k or more ( mostly national team players already and making $$ from that) .with the minimums and the average salary reguriements, it doesn’t look like everyone will have a living salary. Especially tru in NY/Boston areas ( I know little about cost of living in Canada ). Please Explain to me where progress has been made? I understand this is a work in progress….but right now it is only better for the women that would not play before.

                    How do we know what teams have signed their drafted players? Any salary transparency?
                    So far, two player signings from the draft have been announced by their teams, both announced yesterday. Taylor Heise (1st overall pick) signed with her team Minnesota, and Lexie Adzija (65th overall pick) signed with her team Ottawa.

                    Other terms of the signings have not been announced. The terms of contracts may well be announced once the rosters are finalized: the PWHLPA has said they are interested in having players vote on whether to disclose all contract terms once the player pool is decided. Players are already able to find out about colleagues' contracts internally for the purpose of negotiating their own contracts.

                    In 2022-23, reportedly, PHF players received an average salary of $34k, while PWHPA players received a $24k stipend. Multiplied by the number of players in each group (about 162 in the PHF and 97 in the PWHPA), these figures give a total of about $7.8 million invested into paying the players across North America that season.

                    In 2023-24, about $9.9 million will seemingly be paid to players. This figure includes their housing stipends for the season (previously not part of contracts), $1500 per month. The figure also includes salaries, for which the minimum is $35k and mandated average on each team is $55k, and it also includes bonuses for awards and All-Star game appearances. Finally, the $9.9 million figure includes the $15,000 salaries each for 2 reserve players on each team; and the $1 million pool, split among pro players who do not join a pro league (with a $10k per player minimum payment).

                    With this investment, including the benefits provided by the CBA, very many players on active rosters - that is, among the 23 rostered players per team - will be able to play hockey full-time.
                    Last edited by BowWowWow; 10-28-2023, 11:38 AM. Reason: changing housing stipend from $1200 to $1500/month and recalculating total

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                    • I have a few questions about the latest post. Bowwowwow seems to indicate that "Players are already able to find out about colleagues' contracts internally for the purpose of negotiating their own contracts.". How? Just by asking? I don't think all players are so willing to divulge salaries. In fact, I know they aren't. So I'm curious how you think this will happen.

                      Also, is it confirmed that players will receive $1200/month for housing? For all six to seven months of the season? I didn't realize this was a done deal in all markets. And will every player receive this housing stipend?

                      Salary transparency seems important. In a league with multiple owners, this would have to be public information so that owners were certain everyone was abiding by the salary rules. But in a single owner league, this will only happen if the players push for it. And once again, does this benefit the high end players doing all of the negotiating? Probably not. But it certainly would help those players signing for the average or league minimum.

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                      • Originally posted by tedlasso View Post
                        I have a few questions about the latest post. Bowwowwow seems to indicate that "Players are already able to find out about colleagues' contracts internally for the purpose of negotiating their own contracts.". How? Just by asking? I don't think all players are so willing to divulge salaries. In fact, I know they aren't. So I'm curious how you think this will happen.

                        Also, is it confirmed that players will receive $1200/month for housing? For all six to seven months of the season? I didn't realize this was a done deal in all markets. And will every player receive this housing stipend?

                        Salary transparency seems important. In a league with multiple owners, this would have to be public information so that owners were certain everyone was abiding by the salary rules. But in a single owner league, this will only happen if the players push for it. And once again, does this benefit the high end players doing all of the negotiating? Probably not. But it certainly would help those players signing for the average or league minimum.
                        These are good questions, yeah. There is a podcast called Knoxy and Kax done by Liz Knox and Karell Emard, and I think they have more info on this. Knox has been involved in bargaining negotiations even as she's no longer playing; Kax is also not playing this upcoming season.

                        In their latest episode, Sept. 5, they talk about how they hope there will be salary transparency, and they say that there's a system (some kind of spreadsheet maybe?) where the players disclose their contracts to each other and that it helps the up-and-coming players get a fair shake.

                        I agree with the concerns about a single owner and also hope that salaries will become public.

                        I just checked; the housing stipend is $1500/month, increasing by $100 every year in the CBA. This includes every market (it is page 16 of the CBA). The public CBA is available on the newish website, pwhlpa.com.

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                        • Originally posted by tedlasso View Post
                          Salary transparency seems important. In a league with multiple owners, this would have to be public information so that owners were certain everyone was abiding by the salary rules. But in a single owner league, this will only happen if the players push for it. And once again, does this benefit the high end players doing all of the negotiating? Probably not. But it certainly would help those players signing for the average or league minimum.
                          Yea I don’t know why it’s not all public. Weak explanation offered up by Liz Knox about not making decisions for others. Sarah Nurse and Knight were vocal about how little they used to make. Why change now?

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                          • Originally posted by Lindsay View Post
                            What would you all name the teams?
                            For Boston, I'd go with maybe the Boston Clover, given that, as some have pointed out, its color is green?

                            I like your Legacy name.

                            Also, I read on The Messenger sports news that the Riveters branding is owned by Rivs Rising LLC and the Beauts and Whitecaps branding are still owned by NLTT Ventures.
                            Last edited by BowWowWow; 10-27-2023, 12:07 PM. Reason: adding re: branding

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                            • Signings among drafted players announced so far:
                              - Taylor Heise, Minnesota on a 3-year contract
                              - Lexie Adzija, Ottawa on a 1-year contract
                              - Sophie Jaques, Boston on a 3-year contract
                              - Jincy Roese, Ottawa on a 2-year contract

                              The 3 initial free agent signings (pre-draft picks) for each team have also signed 3-year contracts. The PWHL site has signing trackers by team (Boston, Minnesota, Montreal, New York, Ottawa, and Toronto).

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                              • Originally posted by Lindsay View Post

                                The league minimum was $13500 in the PHF last year
                                The league minimum was 30k or35k for 23-24 I think….gotta compare apples to apples. PHF salaries doubled last 2 years without the PWHPA players….

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