Should good teams schedule more good nonconference opponents?

[TitleIXHockey]

Could you list the "eight' that you're counting? Because I listed all their non-conference games earlier, and I think that "eight" might be, shall we say, debatable?

And again, the 'title' of your original post doesn't specify "road"; it just says "good nonconference". So which are you complaining about?

8 games out of 66 that were road games against nonconference opponents that finished with a winning record in between losses to Robert Morris (11-6-09) and Penn State (this season)
2009 2 at Providence (17-16-3)
2016 2 at Clarkson (32-4-5)
2017 2 at Cornell (21-9-3)
2018 2 at Mercyhurst (15-14-5)

[TitleIXHockey]

All the WCHA not conference games are played against teams from the East lol.

When you schedule a non conference series, you really don't have future insight knowing whether or not that team you agree to play is going to be good or not. Do you have an idea? Maybe. Its crazy to think MJ only likes to schedule cupcakes. He himself has said that you really don't learn much about your team by playing a weaker opponent. He's also said that he likes to grow the game and that means playing some teams that maybe are small and upcoming. So the elites should just play the elites and the commoners should just play to the commoners? Welcome to 1914 Europe. I hope the Arch Duke is wearing a bullet proof vest this time.

It's also a comical that this elitist thought is coming from somebody who seems to be very in tune with equity in life.

Except for the 87 against Lindenwood

[TitleIXHockey]

The part I'm admittedly leaving out is the genesis for this is seeing "Wisconsin went x years without losing to a nonconference opponents" comments, to which my response is, yeah, but how impressive is that really when they rarely travel to play good teams in a true road game and 26 of those opponents (13 yrs x 2) are probably Lindenwood?

[TitleIXHockey]

All the WCHA not conference games are played against teams from the East lol.

When you schedule a non conference series, you really don't have future insight knowing whether or not that team you agree to play is going to be good or not. Do you have an idea? Maybe. Its crazy to think MJ only likes to schedule cupcakes. He himself has said that you really don't learn much about your team by playing a weaker opponent. He's also said that he likes to grow the game and that means playing some teams that maybe are small and upcoming. So the elites should just play the elites and the commoners should just play to the commoners? Welcome to 1914 Europe. I hope the Arch Duke is wearing a bullet proof vest this time.

It's also a comical that this elitist thought is coming from somebody who seems to be very in tune with equity in life.

Not what I said. What I said was basically try to schedule a good opponent on the road more than 12% of the time.

[robertearle]

8 games out of 66 that were road games against nonconference opponents that finished with a winning record in between losses to Robert Morris (11-6-09) and Penn State (this season)
2009 2 at Providence (17-16-3)
2016 2 at Clarkson (32-4-5)
2017 2 at Cornell (21-9-3)
2018 2 at Mercyhurst (15-14-5)

Even if we accept the absurd notion that neutral site games "don't count" and home games "don't count" as "good nonconference opponents", the 2016-17 Syracuse team was over .500 and 14-4-2 in conference. That they weren't as good the next year when Wisconsin travelled there is hardly Mark Johnson's fault; he booked an above-500 'east' team. So that's a fifth series. After you take out the neutral site games, and the LIU and Lindenwood trips to help bolster new programs, how many opportunities did they have for such east coast trips, anyway?

Is "66" the entirety of their non-conference scheduling? Because, again, if you are discounting the neutral site gams as "good", they shouldn't be part of the total you cite, either way. And again, the title of the post does not specify only road, it just says "good nonconference opponents".

(And let's also point out that what you're asking in wanting UW to come east instead of staying home is giving up two dates of 2000 tickets sold per game to pack everyone onto a private jet to fly east to play in front of, what?, 200 people per date? That costs money.)

I think your premise is absurd, and I think UW's record under that absurd premise is actually pretty good.

[TitleIXHockey]

Even if we accept the absurd notion that neutral site games "don't count" and home games "don't count" as "good nonconference opponents", the 2016-17 Syracuse team was over .500 and 14-4-2 in conference. That they weren't as good the next year when Wisconsin travelled there is hardly Mark Johnson's fault; he booked an above-500 'east' team. So that's a fifth series. After you take out the neutral site games, and the LIU and Lindenwood trips to help bolster new programs, how many opportunities did they have for such east coast trips, anyway?

Is "66" the entirety of their non-conference scheduling? Because, again, if you are discounting the neutral site gams as "good", they shouldn't be part of the total you cite, either way. And again, the title of the post does not specify only road, it just says "good nonconference opponents".

(And let's also point out that what you're asking in wanting UW to come east instead of staying home is giving up two dates of 2000 tickets sold per game to pack everyone onto a private jet to fly east to play in front of, what?, 200 people per date? That costs money.)

I think your premise is absurd, and I think UW's record under that absurd premise is actually pretty good.

Neutral site games are different than road games both in terms of degree of difficulty and streaming options. And to be clear it's not about replacing home dates with road dates, it's scheduling better opponents for those nonconf road dates.

Yes, 66 was the entirety of nonconf opponents I counted in that time, not including NCAA games. Semantics aside, the point that Wisconsin seems to avoid playing road games against good nonconf opponents seems valid. If you were expecting something approaching a regular distribution, you'd expect 25% each of home/road games against good/bad opponents. You could say that maybe Wisconsin (or any WCHA team) is going to stay home 60% or 70% of the time due to travel costs you'd be at around 15% or 20%, which Wisconsin only sort of gets close to.

You could also say that as a large university that sells well, maybe Wisconsin isn't beholden to travel limitations as much as some of the other WCHA schools.

It'll be interesting to see if Johnson does indeed believe that iron sharpens iron or if Wisconsin slips back into traveling to play road games against RPI (11-12), Lindenwood only (12-13), no one (13-14, 15-16), UNH (14-15), Clarkson??? What are you doing here (16-17), Syracuse (17-18), Cornell??? Two in one season? Surely this must be a mistake (17-18), Mercyhurst (18-19, Mercyhurst is still a 30 win team, right?), LIU (19-20)

Actually, huh, I guess it has gotten a bit better in the last 5 years.

[TitleIXHockey]

Clarkson??? What are you doing here (16-17), Cornell??? Two in one season? Surely this must be a mistake (17-18)

I think they were going for Brown and Dartmouth but the scheduler misclicked on the dropdown menu.

[Lindsay]

To your first point, that's the difference in neutral site tournament games (which Wisconsin has played a bunch of) and road games. For away games at a specific school the streaming is almost always reliable and known in advance. Tournaments tend to be all over the map (though if the host is an NCAA WHockey school, their streaming service is a safe bet).

SLU had a mix up where the Penn State UMD game they hosted in the fall was not streamed in America.

[robertearle]

Neutral site games are different than road games both in terms of degree of difficulty and streaming options. And to be clear it's not about replacing home dates with road dates, it's scheduling better opponents for those nonconf road dates.

Yes, 66 was the entirety of nonconf opponents I counted in that time, not including NCAA games. Semantics aside, the point that Wisconsin seems to avoid playing road games against good nonconf opponents seems valid. If you were expecting something approaching a regular distribution, you'd expect 25% each of home/road games against good/bad opponents. You could say that maybe Wisconsin (or any WCHA team) is going to stay home 60% or 70% of the time due to travel costs you'd be at around 15% or 20%, which Wisconsin only sort of gets close to.

You could also say that as a large university that sells well, maybe Wisconsin isn't beholden to travel limitations as much as some of the other WCHA schools.

It'll be interesting to see if Johnson does indeed believe that iron sharpens iron or if Wisconsin slips back into traveling to play road games against RPI (11-12), Lindenwood only (12-13), no one (13-14, 15-16), UNH (14-15), Clarkson??? What are you doing here (16-17), Syracuse (17-18), Cornell??? Two in one season? Surely this must be a mistake (17-18), Mercyhurst (18-19, Mercyhurst is still a 30 win team, right?), LIU (19-20)

Actually, huh, I guess it has gotten a bit better in the last 5 years.

Your premise is absurd, and your 'methodology' as to what 'counts' and doesn't 'count' is ridiculous.

[Reddington]

Same as college basketball - a coach and program is measured by 20 win seasons. The same applies to college hockey. When you hit that number the administration is happy. Now whether stacking your record with creampuffs helps you come tournament time whether in conference or in the dance is a different question. I think most coaches are comfortable with the 20 wins whether it has creampuffs or not because that is job security for the coach.

[robertearle]

Specifically that they don't play more road games against top eastern teams. Wisconsin played 8 in 13 years (between nonconf losses to RMU in 09 and Penn State in 2022)(and a number of neutral site games which is good, but not the same). Clarkson, for comparison, played 9 in 08-09 and 09-10 alone.

If you're an eastern fan, or maybe a midwestern fan that doesn't get BTN, you should be able to watch Wisconsin play a team like Quinnipiac more than roughly once every other year.

Same as college basketball - a coach and program is measured by 20 win seasons. The same applies to college hockey. When you hit that number the administration is happy. Now whether stacking your record with creampuffs helps you come tournament time whether in conference or in the dance is a different question. I think most coaches are comfortable with the 20 wins whether it has creampuffs or not because that is job security for the coach.

Yup, that's it. Mark Johnson is worried about getting to 20 wins, so as to keep his job safe. You've nailed it.

SMH....

[Timothy A]

Except for the 87 against Lindenwood

MJ has made specific comments in the past about why they play Lindenwood. To grow the game.

[nobody72924]

This weekend St. Cloud, Minnesota, New Hampshire and Merrimack are all playing in Minneapolis. Friday, St. Cloud plays New Hampshire and Minnesota plays Merrimack. On Saturday, St. Cloud plays Merrimack and Minnesota plays New Hampshire.

To get east teams to play west teams more this is a good way to do it. Have 4 teams and switch who plays who. A WCHA-ECAC big hockey challenge one weekend with top 8 teams (I choose 8 because the WCHA has 8 teams) from each conference would be good for women’s hockey. The next year switching which conference plays which could change.

WCHA-ECAC
CHA-Hockey East
WCHA-CHA
ECAC-Hockey East
WCHA-Hockey East
ECAC-CHA

Put on a 6 year rotation. Could be fun.

[robertearle]

This weekend St. Cloud, Minnesota, New Hampshire and Merrimack are all playing in Minneapolis. Friday, St. Cloud plays New Hampshire and Minnesota plays Merrimack. On Saturday, St. Cloud plays Merrimack and Minnesota plays New Hampshire.

To get east teams to play west teams more this is a good way to do it. Have 4 teams and switch who plays who. A WCHA-ECAC big hockey challenge one weekend with top 8 teams (I choose 8 because the WCHA has 8 teams) from each conference would be good for women’s hockey. The next year switching which conference plays which could change.

WCHA-ECAC
CHA-Hockey East
WCHA-CHA
ECAC-Hockey East
WCHA-Hockey East
ECAC-CHA

Put on a 6 year rotation. Could be fun.

Sorry, but according to "the rules" such four-team weekends don't "count".

If they did, then Wisconsin games vs Northeastern and BU and Robert Morris would have to be acknowledged, and then the premise looks even worse.

[KTDC]

Yup, that's it. Mark Johnson is worried about getting to 20 wins, so as to keep his job safe. You've nailed it.

SMH....

From his user profile:
TitleIXHockey
Golden Knight
"2 important things: I am furthest west of anyone and therefore have no eastern bias. I don't turn up my nose at any team just because mine h"

The guy is absurd on his face.