Harvard 2022-23: What's Up?

[Still Eeyore]

I'm not sure what has been learned to date other than media reports and the media, at best, is suspect. I think if someone on the team states it was voluntary and a tradition, that is direct evidence. Obviously other players may feel differently or believed that they were pressured. The whole issue is the perceptions of the participants.

I's also entirely consistent with what has been reported. It's not just that different players might feel differently, it's also, according to what's been written, a difference in years. Some seasons, the naked skate was more coercive than others.

[thirdtime's . . .]

The longer this drags on the more convinced I am that Stone is staying on. She's built up enough personal capital that she would have gotten the word by now if she was likely to be forced out. And, after all, there's an upcoming season to be played! Harvard will save face by considering the investigation itself to be rebuke enough for its celebrated coach.

My own choice would be to bring back Sydney Daniels as head coach, in a stunning display of restorative justice by the university.

[Gargoyle]

I's also entirely consistent with what has been reported. It's not just that different players might feel differently, it's also, according to what's been written, a difference in years. Some seasons, the naked skate was more coercive than others.

From time immemorial, systemic hazing has been defended as quasi-voluntary, not coercive, "team-building," sacred tradition, whatever. Abuse is perpetuated when the very people being abused don't recognize it until too late. "We didn't mean anything by it" or "this was all the team's idea" or "no one HAD to participate"--can we, as adult bystanders, begin to look at hazing differently? I am astonished that in 2023, we are still discussing whether certain activities fall under the umbrella of Tradition instead of being labeled as hazing. We should do better. I have stayed out of this discussion until now because I have no personal experience with Harvard. But I do have experience with examining hazing and awful behavior, and what happened at Harvard, even in the most benign interpretation that can be mustered, is both.

[Timothy A]

From time immemorial, systemic hazing has been defended as quasi-voluntary, not coercive, "team-building," sacred tradition, whatever. Abuse is perpetuated when the very people being abused don't recognize it until too late. "We didn't mean anything by it" or "this was all the team's idea" or "no one HAD to participate"--can we, as adult bystanders, begin to look at hazing differently? I am astonished that in 2023, we are still discussing whether certain activities fall under the umbrella of Tradition instead of being labeled as hazing. We should do better. I have stayed out of this discussion until now because I have no personal experience with Harvard. But I do have experience with examining hazing and awful behavior, and what happened at Harvard, even in the most benign interpretation that can be mustered, is both.

Yep. Any opinion less harsh than this post on this subject is completely out of sorts as to how we should treat or view each other as human beings.

[Steamboat]

The longer this drags on the more convinced I am that Stone is staying on. She's built up enough personal capital that she would have gotten the word by now if she was likely to be forced out. And, after all, there's an upcoming season to be played! Harvard will save face by considering the investigation itself to be rebuke enough for its celebrated coach.

My own choice would be to bring back Sydney Daniels as head coach, in a stunning display of restorative justice by the university.

Sadly, I need to agree with this first paragraph. Sadder still is that this precludes the second.

[Skate79]

The longer this drags on the more convinced I am that Stone is staying on. She's built up enough personal capital that she would have gotten the word by now if she was likely to be forced out. And, after all, there's an upcoming season to be played! Harvard will save face by considering the investigation itself to be rebuke enough for its celebrated coach.

My own choice would be to bring back Sydney Daniels as head coach, in a stunning display of restorative justice by the university.

Agree, unfortunately. And this will most likely mean the downfall of the program until changes are made. No blue chip prospect that has any self respect will even consider applying to Harvard.

[Trillium]

Agree, unfortunately. And this will most likely mean the downfall of the program until changes are made. No blue chip prospect that has any self respect will even consider applying to Harvard.

The fish rots from the head.

Any reasonable person would have concluded Stone was done, based on the evidence. However, what wasn't fully taken into account was that the corruption at Harvard runs deep, which is why few speak out.

[Trillium]

Harvard Crimson: Hanging Up the Harvard Jersey

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2...-commencement/

"Harvard lists rosters for 40 sports teams on its official athletics website. Of these teams, 13 experienced perfect retention of the 2019-20 freshmen class, while six had retention percentages at or below 50 percent. These six included women’s ice hockey, men’s golf, women’s heavyweight rowing, women’s rugby, men’s lightweight rowing, and women’s lacrosse. Women’s teams experienced lower retention — at 71 percent — than men’s teams, which saw 78 percent retention. Women’s ice hockey had the lowest retention rate of all 40 teams, with just 20 percent of the original freshman class remaining for the 2022-23 season. Earlier this year, dozens of current and former players leveled allegations of emotional abuse spanning years by longtime head coach Katey Stone in investigations published by the Boston Globe and the Athletic.

In March, Harvard Athletics announced an external review of the team by a New York-based law firm. The review was expected to conclude by the end of this academic year.

While Harvard did not comment directly on the full data or team retention rates, Harvard spokesperson Rachael Dane wrote in an emailed statement that the University encourages student-athletes to take advantage of the “myriad academic, social, and athletic experiences” available to undergraduates...we also support student-athletes choosing to pursue different paths once they arrive on campus"

The majority of teams at Harvard (26 of 40) had retention rates of ~80%-100%. Yet women's hockey had an ATTRITION rate of 80%. So basically, Harvard has demonstrated once again that it doesn't give a flying fig about it's student-athletes and investigating nor addressing why there are such alarming levels of attrition on a few teams.

[Timothy A]

[QUOTE=Trillium
The majority of teams at Harvard (26 of 40) had retention rates of ~80%-100%. Yet women's hockey had an ATTRITION rate of 80%. So basically, Harvard has demonstrated once again that it doesn't give a flying fig about it's student-athletes and investigating nor addressing why there are such alarming levels of attrition on a few teams.

[/QUOTE]

The stat alone is grounds for dismissal. A ginormous red flag.

[MAHOCKEY FAN]

I am not sure what disappoints me more …that this stuff went on as long as it did….or that after all this information has come out that Katie Stone has not been fired yet. What I think is happening now, and has been for several years, girls commit and go there….if it’s really as bad as they hear…they are still getting a Harvard degree and can quit…or they can transfer. So the retention rate just gets worse….

[Skate79]

Last week, I caught a few innings of the women's softball team playing in the NCAA tournament. Reminded me of my visit with Jenny Allard, the head coach of the women's team in 2009 when I brought the daughter of a close friend for her recruiting visit. Allard could not have been nicer to my friend's daughter. They spent an hour together watching the team practice. Allard was one of the reasons why my friend's daughter chose to come to Harvard and she loved every minute of it.

I bring up Allard because she arrived at Harvard around the same time that Coach Stone took over the women's hockey program. Allard is still having success with her program after 27 years of coaching women's softball. And Allard has to recruit against a far greater pool of schools that have women's softball programs. The fact that she is able to coach a team to the NCAA tournament is an achievement in itself.

[Skate79]

I am not sure what disappoints me more …that this stuff went on as long as it did….or that after all this information has come out that Katie Stone has not been fired yet. What I think is happening now, and has been for several years, girls commit and go there….if it’s really as bad as they hear…they are still getting a Harvard degree and can quit…or they can transfer. So the retention rate just gets worse….

So we have passed graduation and nothing changes. It's clear the administration doesn't care one iota about the women's program. I fear the only way out is for the team to quit en masse. I don't see that happening because some of the girls are favorites of Coach Stone and will play through whatever is going down with the other girls who are suffering the abuse. Maybe a few last-place finishes will change their minds but I'm not holding my breath waiting for that to happen.

[MAHOCKEY FAN]

I check this site for updates multiple times a day. I am convinced KS stays. I will never watch another Harvard sporting event again. This inaction tells me what Harvard thinks about their SA. Anything they say to the contrary is lip stick on a pig

[pucko]

Seems to me that Harvard is just waiting for the dust to settle, which it pretty much has. It's either time for another article from the one of the papers, or Stone is staying put. Coaches from other programs have been let go for far less than what has come out about her and this program (and I'm sure we don't even know the majority of it).

[top cheese]

Stone retires https://gocrimson.com/news/2023/6/6/...etirement.aspx