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  • shelfit
    replied
    I'm gonna go have some avocado toast now.

    Leave a comment:


  • robertearle
    replied
    Re: Coronavirus

    Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
    It does get difficult for coaches to take on Fr when there will be a whole other class of 5th year Sr's still on rosters. And if you are a Fr, you may lose a whole season of playing time to the 5th yr Sr, but in the end life is all about how you handle deflected shots and I am very disappointed UW is doing this. To go from thinking you had a second chance to play your Sr year to getting it yanked out from underneath you AGAIN is just a bad sad deal.
    In an article in the Madison newspaper, one Badger track senior says the head track coach indicated to her that she would be, will be, welcome back next year, just no longer on scholarship. No indication if that would be the same for the other teams and coaches involved here.

    Leave a comment:


  • ARM
    replied
    Re: Coronavirus

    Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    There is *no doubt* that your core argument is right: having a savings is what protects from stuff like this. Where we differ is on just how much the less fortunate are living outside their means at the expense of saving.
    It's not just the less fortunate; you can lump the middle class and and upper-middle class in there, too. Even some of the very rich have paper fortunes, because they carry a mountain of debt.

    My wife and I grew up in communities that had been settled not many generations before by immigrants. They came to a new country with what they could carry, and didn't have much time to get established and either earn or grow enough to survive winters that were harsh. If they didn't, outside of perhaps some charitable neighbors, there wasn't anywhere to turn for help. A drought, a flood, a fire, a tornado, a blizzard -- they had to be prepared for such disasters and somehow find a way to survive in spite of them.

    Can our current population survive a depression if it lasts a decade like the one less than a century ago? Those people still retained that pioneer spirit. Yes, FDR had social programs that helped, but people as a whole were better at banding together and finding ways to cobble together an existence. Now, at the first sign of trouble, some hoard items that their neighbors need, while others cook up scams to take advantage of the situation. We all look to the government to save us, even though it has proven to be ineffective and inefficient at resolving most problems in the past.

    What are we spending our income on instead of saving? Look at all of the smoke shops, tanning salons, coffee shops, tattoo parlors, and cosmetic counters that are all around in any city. If you need gas, you buy $20 in lottery tickets with it, and on Friday night, you go to the casino. People who are scraping to get by need the same electronics that everyone else owns. For centuries, alcohol has contributed to poor people remaining poor, and today's drugs, legal and illegal, add to the problem. Maybe if we are shut in our house for six weeks, we'll learn that we really don't need all the crap that we spend on every day.

    I think that D2D makes excellent points. Schools should spend more time teaching basic life skills.

    Leave a comment:


  • thirdtime's . . .
    replied
    Re: Coronavirus

    “Larger gatherings — conferences, concerts, sporting events — when people say they’re going to reschedule this conference or graduation event for October 2020, I have no idea how they think that’s a plausible possibility. I think those things will be the last to return. Realistically we’re talking fall 2021 at the earliest.”

    I’ll spare you all yet another link to the NYT, but this Sunday’s magazine section has a feature titled:

    “Restarting America Means People Will Die. So When Do We Do It?”

    You don’t have to read the discussion to get the drift.
    Last edited by thirdtime's . . .; 04-11-2020, 10:23 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • D2D
    replied
    Re: Coronavirus

    Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    Oh don't worry I don't think you're doing anything personal at all -- honestly, my wife and I are incredibly lucky, largely because we have the savings you are talking about.
    I don't think building savings is due to "incredible luck"! It takes discipline to accomplish what you and your wife have managed to do. Even people who make big salaries can spend beyond their means, live paycheck to paycheck and have no meaningful savings, even though they've had plenty of opportunity.

    Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    There is *no doubt* that your core argument is right: having a savings is what protects from stuff like this. Where we differ is on just how much the less fortunate are living outside their means at the expense of saving.
    I think each situation is different, and there is no one rule that fits all. But knowledge and motivation each plays a huge role for those growing up in "less fortunate" environments.

    Leave a comment:


  • D2D
    replied
    Re: Coronavirus

    Originally posted by Timothy A View Post
    Every high school student should be required to take a basic economy class and get at least a B before they can graduate.
    I've often had the same thought. Give students the opportunity to learn the basics, including

    >budgeting
    >not spending beyond one's means
    >prioritizing needs over wants
    >how to be a smart shopper
    >the importance of consistently saving some amount, however small, and
    >the power of compounding

    Kids having parents who don't have a clue (and therefore set a poor example) would have the most to gain from such a class.

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyTheTiger20
    replied
    Originally posted by Offsides Guy View Post
    Additionally , though I’m sure it reads like it, I honestly don’t mean to cast dispersion on your situation or anyone else’s. I’m saying this is a lesson I hope we learn from this crisis and a change we all try to make moving forward. I know I will be taking some of the money I currently spend on dinners & drinks, for example, and use it to start building up my near-term savings.
    Oh don't worry I don't think you're doing anything personal at all -- honestly, my wife and I are incredibly lucky, largely because we have the savings you are talking about.

    There is *no doubt* that your core argument is right: having a savings is what protects from stuff like this. Where we differ is on just how much the less fortunate are living outside their means at the expense of saving.

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyTheTiger20
    replied
    Originally posted by Offsides Guy View Post
    Lastly, thanks to all for these forum posts on the Women’s Hockey Forum. The different ideas and debates are wonderfully entertaining and distracting while I’m under this stay-at-home order! 😃
    Who knew we were capable of civil discourse here!! Hahaha

    Leave a comment:


  • Timothy A
    replied
    Re: Coronavirus

    Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    You're talking about "The Economy" like it's some intangible batch of numbers and graphs and then simultaneously in the same post mentioning people unable to make rent. "The Economy" is not the Dow. 10 million people went unemployed in the last two weeks, a third of people can't make this month's rent, and people aren't going to be able to pay their mortgages.

    As for this:

    My guy, seriously, do you really think most people aren't saving money because they're just spending it on avocado toast or something?? 40% of Americans can't cover an unexpected expense of $500 (and that was before all of this *gestures wildly* happened). If you're living paycheck to paycheck good luck saving 3 months of your salary.

    Holy freaking smokes. I love you guys but let's get up to speed here a little bit.
    People need to live within their means. It's impossible not to paint with broad strokes on this but the immediate gratification requirements of many people in country is their downfall. Save money to buy a new tv? No way, plastic baby! OMG the new iPhone 1000 is out! My current phone works just fine, but....plastic baby! Outback Steakhouse has a buy a meal get one half off! We'll get an appetizer and mixed drinks too! Spend a week's worth of grocery money on this meal?! Oh yeah, plastic baby! Those new Nike's are sweet! All my other 14 pairs of shoes are just fine, but plastic baby! I could rent this older place, but I really need a gas stove and all stainless appliances and a giant closet. It's not plastic time, but you get the picture. I could go to a 2 year state college, live at home, get an associate degree, then get the bachelors, but instead I'm going out east to a private college and take 5 years to graduate. Just like that you have mega college debt all because you just had to rush out of the house at 18. Every high school student should be required to take a basic economy class and get at least a B before they can graduate.

    Leave a comment:


  • Blackbeard
    replied
    Re: Coronavirus

    Originally posted by Offsides Guy View Post
    First, you lost me a bit when you said, “ You have a fascist state in the US ...”. I can’t join you in that opinion. Second, I read the two articles you offered up and, though I don’t pretend to be smart enough to have understood everything in them, they did give me pause. The JP Morgan article makes me think the Fed should have put in a rule that banks servicing PPP loans should have to match them dollar for dollar (or something like that ) with other non-PPP SME loans. It seems the guardrail should have been put in to prevent banks from simply chasing the easy margins and leaving small business owners out in the cold.

    I’ll also say I am optimistic that the US economy will absolutely rebound though not necessarily in the next 6 to 12 months. Our economy has seen numerous significant negative events and has always managed to come back. There are always new investors, new companies formed, new revenues generated that will again drive the economy.
    Well, it's not really an opinion, it's a fact.

    Fascism is characterized by a couple of things. One, is an authoritarian police state. Think no further back than the scam that was September 11/01. The "Patriot" Act followed immediately afterwards so quickly that made one marvel at the speed. Well, that was because most of it was already laying in the wings and had been for years waiting to be deployed. Bought with a bill of goods it sold to the American people who bought it hook, line and sinker. Department of Homeland Security. Constant and ever increasing surveillance of Americans' activities...emails, phone calls, text messages. "Constitution? We don't need no stinkin' constitution."

    The response to the Covid-19 issue is the same..."Constitution, we don't need no stinkin' constitution...we're in charge...not you." Stay home and off the streets and no you don't have a right to assemble (regardless of what the reasons are).

    Snowden, Assange, Manning...same thing. Do what we say, not what we do. Blatantly despicable criminal activity with the sheeple uttering hardly a bleat.

    The other main characteristic of a Fascist state is private ownership of the means of production but with state control. Think Facebook, Google, Apple, etc.. as obvious examples. In bed with government to spy on and censure their own customers...sometimes voluntarily, sometimes pressured into doing so by government.

    As a matter of fact the US government arrogantly attempts to extend that thinking to cover the rest of the planet telling everyone else that they have jurisdiction over the rest of the planet..."and we don't care about your opinions to the contrary."

    That's just the tip of the iceberg.

    So, it's not an opinion.

    I think what some of you guys are missing in your well meant optimism is that you unconsciously assume something that isn't so and that is that you will more or less be able to get by, never mind get ahead, with those pieces of paper that you carry around in your wallets that almost all people have been conditioned to think is money. It never was money. It was never intended to be money.

    The US was a bankrupt country before Covid-19 provided the much needed nudge to the festering financial system. All this financial recklessness by governments around the planet, but primarily the US government, was given the green light on Aug.15/71 when Nixon closed the gold window. In effect, the US defaulted on its obligations...for a second time.

    The pieces of paper with pictures of dead presidents on them immediately became "IOU Nothings" because they ceased to be backed by anything of tangible value. They represented nothing. They were, and still are, a receipt for nothing. (The system only functions on the fragile/flimsy faith that someone will accept them from you just as you accepted them from someone else). It's really a Ponzi scheme perpetrated by the government and the Federal Reserve.

    As such, it freed politicians to begin unlimited reckless and irresponsible monetary practices because there was nothing that the currency was backed by or tied to that would act as a cap on such irresponsibility. (This is why governments and their politicians hate gold and silver because they represent accountability. They are real money...gold, somewhat more so than silver. They are the only money that is not simultaneously someone else's liability. Because there is no debt attached to them. If you own them, you own them, there is no explanation required. Currency is part of a debt/credit system. Gold and silver are not).

    The US has been living beyond its means for decades by virtue of having the reserve currency of the planet. They got their currency to stick its nose into everyone else's business where it has no business being (just like the rest of its foreign policy) at Bretton Woods and furthered the scam with the Petro dollar scheme in the '70's.

    As I was discussing with Choker a few years ago (he since seems to have found his way out of the corral and has wandered out into the pasture somewhere, not to be seen or heard from since) the US financial system (and the entire global system) is a house of cards built on quicksand that has been teetering for years. I mentioned at the time that more and more nations are wanting nothing to do with US dollars in their affairs.

    Any idea why the US "had" to invade Iraq and then later, Libya? That's the reason. The US didn't want any foreign sheep to start jumping over the fence (which both countries were making loud public noises about doing) because you know what happens when one or two make it over the fence...the rest follow.

    That movement is even further along now and is picking up steam.

    With the unconscionable amount of currency that the US is "printing" to throw at this Covid-19 problem, (which is just a desperate attempt to prevent the house of cards from collapsing...and consequently, the country), more people and nations are waking up to the concept of the value of such plentiful pieces of paper. When enough people/nations divest themselves of US dollars, in conjunction with this unprecedented, massive creation of new currency units the whole house of cards will come crashing down. Economics 101, as they say...supply and demand.

    What that really means is that the purchasing power of those currency units will start plummeting towards their intrinsic value...which is zero.

    Rampant price inflation, and quite possibly a hyper inflation is in the cards for the US (as well as most other nations) but the US standard of living will fall the furthest because they have been living beyond their means for decades via this global arrangement where everyone else has been footing their bill and that charade is in the process of ending. Other nations are not in this position.

    Bank runs are common in these situations. Bank of America has already started to limit withdrawals and has apparently been harassing customers to not tap out the maximum on their lines of credit. Is this a harbinger of things to come?

    Ultimately, in the very long run, it's all positive, like having to amputate a limb filled with gangrene in order to save the patient. The poison gets cleaned out of the system, some people who deserve to get lynched maybe do, and the sun starts shining again...eventually. But it is not a stretch to say that that process could take years and maybe even decades.

    And then the process will start all over again and centuries into the future the same irresponsible mistakes will get made again slowly but surely creating mountains of avoidable problems all over again.

    This is the repeated and predictable history of money and human stupidity/greed/corruption.

    So, it is the drastic reduction in the purchasing power of the currency units that you possess that you need to pay attention to and get out in front of...and, as such, there is no objective reason for optimism in the short or medium term or perhaps even longer, especially if you are an American.

    It's not pretty, millions upon millions will be wiped out, an unimaginable amount of money will go to money heaven...but it is a mathematical certainty.

    Leave a comment:


  • Offsides Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    No I'm totally in board with this -- I was confused at the idea that we needed to wait and see what the stimulus(/i) would do to the economy before working on the next ones. What I meant was, it's pretty clear there's a problem we need to stay ahead of! Haha

    They may be temporary boosts, but they are crucial -- my wife is one of the many people who have been or are about to be furloughed, and the fact that we'll have the boosted unemployment to replace all her income is great for us but a lifesaver for the people less fortunate than we are.

    And the volume of small businesses applying for the SBA Payroll Protection Loans (this has been the only thing I've been dealing with at work the last 2 weeks) is going to be huge for people to not lose their jobs in the long term.
    Kind of my point. You’d be less busy at work if those small businesses had, say, 90 days in savings to cover expenses. And, if most of their employees also had 90 days in savings, the businesses wouldn’t have to include payroll in their savings to cover their businesses’ basic business expenses.

    Again, I don’t want to abandon those in the greatest need at a time like this. My point is simply that a lot more businesses and people should be in a position to withstand 2-3 months without any help at all. That - not the stock market - is what makes for a strong economy.

    Additionally , though I’m sure it reads like it, I honestly don’t mean to cast dispersion on your situation or anyone else’s. I’m saying this is a lesson I hope we learn from this crisis and a change we all try to make moving forward. I know I will be taking some of the money I currently spend on dinners & drinks, for example, and use it to start building up my near-term savings.

    Lastly, thanks to all for these forum posts on the Women’s Hockey Forum. The different ideas and debates are wonderfully entertaining and distracting while I’m under this stay-at-home order! 😃

    Leave a comment:


  • TonyTheTiger20
    replied
    Originally posted by D2D View Post
    Those unable to make rent are a consequence of "The Economy" taking a sharp nosedive, caused in large part by our government's reaction to the pandemic (stay at home, much retail closed, etc.) which has led to a sharp reduction in the level of economic activity, and job loss. Many observers believe we are in recession right now, and without government assistance ("stimulus") things like people being unable to make their rent will get worse before they get better. Thousands of people have lost their jobs, and record numbers have filed for unemployment benefits. So it's not at all contradictory to talk about "The Economy" and people unable to make rent - they are inexorably linked.
    No I'm totally in board with this -- I was confused at the idea that we needed to wait and see what the stimulus(/i) would do to the economy before working on the next ones. What I meant was, it's pretty clear there's a problem we need to stay ahead of! Haha

    They may be temporary boosts, but they are crucial -- my wife is one of the many people who have been or are about to be furloughed, and the fact that we'll have the boosted unemployment to replace all her income is great for us but a lifesaver for the people less fortunate than we are.

    And the volume of small businesses applying for the SBA Payroll Protection Loans (this has been the only thing I've been dealing with at work the last 2 weeks) is going to be huge for people to not lose their jobs in the long term.
    Last edited by TonyTheTiger20; 04-10-2020, 10:57 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • D2D
    replied
    Re: Coronavirus

    Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    You're talking about "The Economy" like it's some intangible batch of numbers and graphs and then simultaneously in the same post mentioning people unable to make rent.
    Those unable to make rent are a consequence of "The Economy" taking a sharp nosedive, caused in large part by our government's reaction to the pandemic (stay at home, much retail closed, etc.) which has led to a sharp reduction in the level of economic activity, and job loss. Many observers believe we are in recession right now, and without government assistance ("stimulus") things like people being unable to make their rent will get worse before they get better. Thousands of people have lost their jobs, and record numbers have filed for unemployment benefits. So it's not at all contradictory to talk about "The Economy" and people unable to make rent - they are inexorably linked.

    Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    "The Economy" is not the Dow.
    Never said it was!

    Leave a comment:


  • Offsides Guy
    replied
    Originally posted by Blackbeard View Post
    Allow me to share with you some over-riding reasons why things might not take back off.

    And don't forget, Covid-19 didn't cause this. It was just the catalyst that pushed the already terminally ill economy over the edge. The misallocations of capital were not allowed to clear the system in 2008-2009. Businesses that fail should be allowed to finish that process...but they weren't. Politics becomes involved. The systemic dangers are much greater now than they were in 2008. You have a fascist state in the US that has been allowed to grow and fester and the day of reckoning would appear to be here.

    And, as a result, it certainly wouldn't surprise me to find that in October, women's hockey, in whatever form, is not business as usual.

    https://kingworldnews.com/alasdair-m...crack-up-boom/

    https://www.zerohedge.com/economics/...small-business
    First, you lost me a bit when you said, “ You have a fascist state in the US ...”. I can’t join you in that opinion. Second, I read the two articles you offered up and, though I don’t pretend to be smart enough to have understood everything in them, they did give me pause. The JP Morgan article makes me think the Fed should have put in a rule that banks servicing PPP loans should have to match them dollar for dollar (or something like that ) with other non-PPP SME loans. It seems the guardrail should have been put in to prevent banks from simply chasing the easy margins and leaving small business owners out in the cold.

    I’ll also say I am optimistic that the US economy will absolutely rebound though not necessarily in the next 6 to 12 months. Our economy has seen numerous significant negative events and has always managed to come back. There are always new investors, new companies formed, new revenues generated that will again drive the economy.

    Leave a comment:


  • shelfit
    replied
    Originally posted by TonyTheTiger20 View Post
    You're talking about "The Economy" like it's some intangible batch of numbers and graphs and then simultaneously in the same post mentioning people unable to make rent. "The Economy" is not the Dow. 10 million people went unemployed in the last two weeks, a third of people can't make this month's rent, and people aren't going to be able to pay their mortgages.

    As for this:

    My guy, seriously, do you really think most people aren't saving money because they're just spending it on avocado toast or something?? 40% of Americans can't cover an unexpected expense of $500 (and that was before all of this *gestures wildly* happened). If you're living paycheck to paycheck good luck saving 3 months of your salary.

    Holy freaking smokes. I love you guys but let's get up to speed here a little bit.
    Ooh, I love avocado toast!

    Leave a comment:

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