Women’s North American Pro Hockey

[Lindsay]

https://www.nwhl.zone/news/nwhl-to-d...n-season-seven

NWHL salary cap doubles from 150k to 300k next year. Great news.

[Rightnut]

https://www.nwhl.zone/news/nwhl-to-d...n-season-seven

NWHL salary cap doubles from 150k to 300k next year. Great news.

Significant increase which is great news indeed. So does that mean on average, a player gets $15k assuming a 20 player roster or is there significant variance between top and bottom players?

[Lindsay]

Significant increase which is great news indeed. So does that mean on average, a player gets $15k assuming a 20 player roster or is there significant variance between top and bottom players?

I think there is variance. In year 3 they did a tiered thing where everyone made b/t 5-7 k but in other years variance. I tried to find past salary caps and came up with this.

Yr1: team 270k; player min 10k, max $25k. Stack signed for $25 k

Yr2: same as above except salaries slashed without warning early in season. Max might have increased to 26k as that’s what Kessel signed for (did not receive it obvs)

Yr3: 5-7 k per player

Yr4: $100k team cap. Some players made as little as $2000

Yr5: $150k team cap. Increased games played so per game amount did not change. Introduced 50% revenue sharing from sponsorships. This was year 1 of PW too.

Yr6: Same as above, but not sure if they got paid less for playing so few games due to pandemic. Management made the revenue sharing less favorable to players.

Yr7: $300k team cap, and their will be an increase to league minimum. No idea on sponsorship sharing.

At one time players salaries were public, no longer seems to be the case.

[zambonidriver]

Rumor on the street is that next year after the Olympics the NHL is going to make a major financial commitment to forming a women's professional league with the best female players in the world . That means the PWHPA players. It is going to probably mimic what the NBA did with the WNBA. The players will be signed to contracts where they get a very good wage and there will be a significant TV deal. The NWHL will probably still be around in some capacity for what it is and serve as a minor league like the AHL.

[thirdtime's . . .]

Rumor on the street is that next year after the Olympics the NHL is going to make a major financial commitment to forming a women's professional league with the best female players in the world . That means the PWHPA players. It is going to probably mimic what the NBA did with the WNBA. The players will be signed to contracts where they get a very good wage and there will be a significant TV deal. The NWHL will probably still be around in some capacity for what it is and serve as a minor league like the AHL.

A year from now the current PWHPA players are going to be longer in the tooth psychologically as well as physically, and all up-coming student athletes who might otherwise fill their shoes will find themselves in a post-covid world where life/career choices may need to be recalibrated in ways hard to foresee. The NHL may well find itself a day late and several million dollars short.

[Lindsay]

It’s encouraging to hear that Zamboni. In many ways it seems hard to believe, based on what we’ve seen, moving of goal posts etc. However Elliotte Friedman has shared rumblings of this as well, Jocelyne Lamoureux also flat out said it on on the Cammi and AJ podcast.

The new tv rights deals recently signed give the NHL millions more to work with to make this happen, not that they needed it.

To Third time’s point, if the NHL is going to do this, why not announce it formally now? Is the NHL really going to announce a new league and then start it just a few months later? Ie) post Olympic announcement and then start Fall 2022? My hope is that they were waiting for the tv rights to get wrapped up, and will announce sooner rather than later, if this is real.

Players clearly want a league. They don’t like showcases any more than fans. People love to debate this but in my mind Knight and
Poulin are THE players of this generation. Their careers and skills won’t last forever. I truly hope they get to play in whatever is the future of pro women’s hockey, and that this rumor is real!

If they are getting closer to this dream league, with impending free agency in the NWHL coming up, PW needs to work on messaging and programming with/for their non National team players, to sustain them through one more year of this struggle.

[Lindsay]

Ok Sportsnet and Secret Deodorant and Calgary Flames!

https://pwhpa.com/secret-deodorant-a...our-in-canada/


7 game event for the Canadians coming up in Calgary! Very happy for them. No fans but broadcast on Sportsnet. Sounds like a cool event.

[Cornholio]

As much as I would like to see this rumor be true, I just don't know how this happens or even why TBH. In some sense, why does the NHL have to care about a 'competing' league? How much NHL support is/was there for any of the current or past women's efforts? Not a ton. The NHL wants more fans, and young girls and women is an untapped market. But to service that, they could invest in growing the youth game instead of supporting a women's pro league. Lets say each NHL team has $1M to spend to get more women fans. How best to spend that - give it to the 'local' womens pro team that supports a few, or use it for marketing (hockey is not just a boys game), learn-to-play for girls, support girls teams, help disadvantaged girls play, etc. That would be a much smarter use of the money if the goal is to have more female hockey fans. The NBA comparison is a bit of a red herring - the NBA has more money than it knows how to spend and there is already support for girls youth basketball (every middle school in the country...). So they get some PC cover by basically funding a league that can't financially make it on their own. The NHL is in a totally different situation.

[Lindsay]

I think the “why” is sponsorship revenue.

NHL brought in $600 million in sponsorship revenue in 18/19. Those sponsors are accountable to shareholders, and results are driven by consumers. I do think the world is changing and to varying extents people and sponsors and consumers care about gender equity. Sponsors might go elsewhere if NHL isn’t fitting the image they want.

If the NHL puts $32 million annually (omg can you even imagine! $1 million per NHL team, spread over a small women’s league) into a women’s league I think at worst it protects existing sponsorships, at best it makes them more appealing for sponsors.

The NHL generated close to $15 million this year just by introducing helmet advertising. They can afford this despite their bad pandemic year.


I think the other why is that the NHL and governing bodies get lots of government money and it’s going to get harder and harder to justify that, and being engaged in gender equity endeavors might help their arguments. Calgary taxpayers are about to spend $225 million+ on their new rink as one example. Hockey Canada lists the government of Canada as one of their funding partners and thanks them for their “enormous” support in their annual report. Taxpayers should probably be asking themselves if they agree with it in general, but should also be questioning just who benefits from this spending and agitating for the pool of beneficiaries to be as big as possible.

That’s the why that I can come up with... but what happens here is anyone’s best guess.

[Lindsay]

In some sense, why does the NHL have to care about a 'competing' league?

Yes, this is the most confusing part of the narrative for me. People remember the NHL saying they wouldn't get involved until there was 1 league, then changed it to 0 leagues. Can understand why some knowledgeable women's hockey people refuse to believe the rumor of an NHL backed league.

How much NHL support is/was there for any of the current or past women's efforts? Not a ton.

Sometimes the NHL or their franchises come through in big ways, which contributes to my own confusion as to where they really stand on all this, because I agree other times they standy idly by in ways that seem almost cruel. They stepped up to fund the National Team players in that 2017 contract they signed with USA Hockey. Pittsburgh Penguins hosted the women for a week when '19 Four Nations got cancelled. I could be wrong but I think NHL is a sponsor in the Rivalry Series. While some think the NHL AllStar appearances aren't much for the women's players, they seem to come out of that with more sponsors - visibility is key for them. So that NHL support matters. I wish the NHL did a lot more for women's hockey because they have the ability to do way more, but in the list of women's hockey supporters they are also certainly high up on the list. Weird situation.

But to service that, they could invest in growing the youth game instead of supporting a women's pro league. Lets say each NHL team has $1M to spend to get more women fans. How best to spend that - .... use it for marketing (hockey is not just a boys game), learn-to-play for girls, support girls teams, help disadvantaged girls play, etc.

I know we're dreaming with the $32 million number but just for the sake of conversation, if the NHL put $32 million annually into growing grassroots girls hockey - specifically supporting girls teams, creation of local leagues, or helping disadvantaged girls play, it is hard to argue against that as much as I want a women's pro league. I think a visible pro women's league would drive girls hockey enrollment, when an NHL team comes to town, local hockey enrollment skyrockets for example, so visibility matters. But there are other barriers too and putting money towards them would be an incredible thing that the NHL could also use to bolster sponsorships/ their image.

[Cornholio]

I don't know first-hand, but know people who are in pro hockey (both minor and NHL) and have been told that the NHL is very protective of being the only 'pro' hockey around. The NHL considers even the SPHL a 'competing' league if a franchise is within driving distance of an NHL club. I guess the reason is that the NHL is still very much a gate-revenue league, and need butts in the seats, and they don't want to compete for the hockey fan's time at the arenas. If this is true, the only way I see the NHL sponsoring a women's league is if 1) it is in a region with no NHL footprint (which would mean very likely nobody around to be fans...) or 2) supporting a summer league. I personally like the idea of a summer league to get year-round hockey, but I know others think it is a gimmick.

Speaking of gimmicks, unfortunately that is my take in regards to how the NHL has supported women's 'pro' hockey so far. Yes, there have been a few events but they have been fairly clear they are not backing any type of sustainable league.

With that said, some NHL clubs in non-traditional markets have gone above and beyond in supporting the youth girls. The LA Kings come to mind - they have been very supportive in getting young girls on the ice and keeping them in the youth game and as a result, there have been quite a few good players to come out of southern calif. Not sure that type of effort is needed in traditional markets like in Minnesota or out east, but has been a major impact in non-traditional markets.

With regards to the NHL supporting a pro league for basically as an "insurance" policy to keep sponsors and/or governments on-board, which I think is one motivation for the NBA support of the WNBA, there seems to be two concerns here. First, look at what just happened with the Worlds - clearly the political types even in Canada don't consider it a political risk. But worse I am afraid is the actions of some of the more militant supporters of the WNBA and even women's pro soccer. Whatever support there is seems to be not enough for some of the more vocal types, as the women will always be paid 'less' than the men. Not sure the NHL wants to deal with that. To an outsider, subsidizing a women's pro league seems to support only a very few at the top and does not help broaden the game. Again, money used to subsidize a pro league could be in helping colleges start more programs, youth teams offer more opportunity to others who can't afford it, etc. That has a lot more positive PR and much less hassle it would seem.

[Lindsay]

Appreciate reading your perspective on this, Cornholio. Lots to think about.

I’ve also noticed the non traditional NHL market support for girls /women’s hockey. Thinking of Lindsay Fry’s Small Fry’s and the Kachinas in AZ. Great to see.

I try to balance calling for better with simply enjoying the game, and being intentional as a consumer, paying attention to who is supporting women. I hope champions of women’s hockey who are called on to be better understand people also see the good they do. I assume Hockey Canada funds their women’s national team in part with their Sport Canada money. It’s great. Do I also wish Hockey Canada also was more supportive of the now defunct CWHL? I do. At the same time literally right now, HC is hosting a women’s summit event, and I knew they would come through with hockey mom content on Mother’s Day. They published a sweet video of Jill Saulnier and her mom. So I see it, appreciate the progress, but the work of improving the status quo always continues no matter what industry.

Lot’s of nuance in the critiques and celebrations of the entities that grow women’s sport.

After the unfortunate news of the worlds postponement, there was good news last week with the PW Calgary announcement, and this morning it was reported Ovechkin invested in a pro women’s soccer team. I mean SOCCER!, lol, but it’s still great to see.

[Cornholio]

Fun discussion - after reading your insights into this Lindsay, and looking at other women's pro sports leagues both in north america and around the world, the only way I think a pro women's hockey league happens is if there is enough benefactors who would want to sponsor a team / league for the sake of owning a pro sports team. Like Ovi investing in a pro women's soccer team (I think he is a big soccer fan BTW). On pure financials, it will be very hard to make a case to support a pro women's league, and if the pitch is 'support women's hockey', there are ways to support the broader female athlete, especially youth, and not just a few top adult players. A lot of minor league sports teams are, hate to say it, "vanity" projects for the owners; they either don't make money or could make more money investing elsewhere but like owning a yacht or jet or something, it is a 'trophy' and status symbol. Not the best reason to try to promote a women's hockey league but oddly I think it is more realistic than trying to either shame or beg the NHL or hockey federations to do something. A viable league only needs a couple people looking for a project to build, at least in a semi-pro sense (like the ECHL or SPHL) and if a charismatic enough person could find a few of these people, might make something work.

[Cornholio]

This is really the only way I see a viable women's league starting:
- Need to find at least 4 individuals / entities who don't mind losing perhaps upto 6 figures/season at least initially. Maybe a tax write-off or the cost for owning a trophy
- Each of these independent owners has a seat on the board of the league, and make the decisions. Just like the NHL, ECHL, SPHL. The commish works for the owners; it is not a top-down league. This is the only way the ego of the types of people who would be willing to fork over the money can be fed.
- Needs to be a summer league. Reasons outlined below.
- Sorry players - you will not get paid a 'living wage'; this is semi-pro, just like the ECHL, SPHL and even some AHL players. You will get housing and a stipend during the season, but you will need to have a job in the off-season.
- Located in an area that can support say 2-3K fans/game. Any area with a junior or minor pro hockey team could suffice.

With this being a summer league, the 'off-season' for the players is the 'regular' season for all other hockey. So the players can work in the off-season as a coach (youth or college), private lessons, with a men's pro league in the front-office, etc. So there is path to a living solely around hockey. Also, the initial market for such a league is the die-hard hockey fan (will have some hockey to watch in the summer) and women sports fans in general.

[zambonidriver]

Interesting. Another option NHL follows the NBA/ WNBA model
. Has a late summer early fall schedule. 10 team league in NHL cites. New York, Boston, Toronto, Montreal, Calgary, MN, LA, Chicago, Nashville, Buffalo. Play the first season in their practice venues which all can hold about 1500 to 2000 fans. Set a salary cap at 32 million (thanks Lindsay) executive structure is already up and running obviously would need to hire a gm and coaching staff. TV deal and streaming (key revenue). Merchandise and sponsorship like Europe and WNBA make the Jersey a billboard. Grow Sponsorships, they already have Dunkin, Secret, Chipotle,