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  • #31
    Colgate beats Ckarkson in Potsdam 3-1.

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    • #32
      ECAC tweeted that it is making an announcement at 3pm. Season cancelled? Some teams coming back? Anyone have any intel?

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      • #33
        Originally posted by Rightnut View Post
        ECAC tweeted that it is making an announcement at 3pm. Season cancelled? Some teams coming back? Anyone have any intel?
        Answering my own question - word is that it is likely the announcement of the 4 team schedule.

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by Rightnut View Post

          Sure - those sheep can sit home all season. Ivies can sit in their ivory towers quivering in fear while all their good men's players transfer. These teams will adjust the schedule and keep on playing. Getting covid means little to this age group. Grandma is not at the rink. Get it and get it over with and you don't have to get the vaccine.
          Rightnut....... actually, the most recent research and analysis on sports related spread is showing hockey to be the riskiest of all of the indoor sports. As I've stated in other threads previously, with 40% being asymptomatic, and the vast majority of players in youth and high school level not being required to test two and three times a week the way the NCAA protocols require, we'll never truly know the degree of infection and spread that is directly associated with in game/practice activity.

          I am the father of a 13 yr old here in Minnesota and, we are in week three of a current four week pause on all youth, high school, and adult sports. With the likelihood that governor Walz will extend that through at least Jan. 1st, and possibly into mid or late January. I also make my living directly off of this great game so, it's also been challenging for me personally too. However, I also believe that in this specific situation, given these specific circumstances, if health and science experts like Fauci and Osterholm say that not playing/practicing youth, high school, and adult athletics (when consistent, weekly testing isn't an option) is the proper thing to do to limit/reduce community spread, and in turn reduce the stress on our health care systems, especially the doctors, nurses, and others on the front lines, then I'm willing to make that sacrifice.

          Would it be nice if the federal government got off their azzes and passed another Covid relief bill? It sure would be. Regardless, please read the following articles about the various spreading scenarios and you can draw your own conclusions about how big of an issue infections at the rinks has become.

          https://www.washingtonpost.com/healt...ion-outbreaks/

          https://abcnews.go.com/US/youth-hock...ry?id=74232730

          https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mor...cid=uxbndlbing

          https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucele...h=17b626177f9b

          https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/thund...ckey-1.5782407

          https://www.msn.com/en-us/sports/mor...ks/ar-BB1a5JRT

          https://www.boston.com/news/coronavi...ame-the-adults

          https://www.nj.com/highschoolsports/...us-battle.html

          https://www.wral.com/coronavirus/two...ases/19319331/

          https://www.tsn.ca/new-covid-19-rest...eams-1.1534706
          https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/ohl...emic-1.5675087

          https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottawa/c ... -1.5786399

          https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/20/us/ve...rnd/index.html

          https://www.fosters.com/story/news/c...ter/114252578/

          https://calgaryherald.com/news/thous...-for-two-weeks

          https://montrealgazette.com/sports/h...ovid-outbreaks

          ://www.adn.com/alaska-news/2020/10/12/hundreds-of-potential-coronavirus-quarantines-around-alaska-in-the-wake-of-youth-hockey-tournament/

          Comment


          • #35
            Net Presence- I appreciate that research and am aware of those articles and that theory. I am not debating youth hockey. That is much less regulated and tested. Could youth hockey cause spreading- it’s plausible. Has it been proven- not yet.

            My point is that college hockey is eminently doable. It is in fact happening. Colgate has played 6 games without incident. There have been no instances of teams infecting each other. There are no fans, no parents, no grandmas at the games. There is likely herd immunity on most teams already. When there is a covid event, schedules can be adjusted. Is it anyone’s belief that these players are safer at home partying with their peers rather than in a highly regulated and tested team environment?

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Rightnut View Post
              My point is that college hockey is eminently doable. It is in fact happening. Colgate has played 6 games without incident.
              Which makes them the exception, not the rule. Almost half of the WCHA series scheduled have been postponed.

              There have been no instances of teams infecting each other.
              Wisconsin/Ohio State

              There are no fans, no parents, no grandmas at the games. There is likely herd immunity on most teams already. When there is a covid event, schedules can be adjusted.
              I don't think you actually understand the concept of herd immunity. It is not a useful way to think about transmission between individuals in a small group that has lots of close interaction. Herd immunity is a situation in which the spread of a disease is arrested because a sufficiently high percentage of a total population has immunity, so it becomes difficult to transmit between random individuals interacting. A hockey team is not large enough to constitute a meaningful population, and there is nothing random about the interactions. If one teammate has the disease, and another is not immune, the relative proportions of the population that has immunity is irrelevant.

              Unless you're going to argue that players should have zero contact with their families over the holidays, parents and grandmas are effectively at the games.

              Is it anyone’s belief that these players are safer at home partying with their peers rather than in a highly regulated and tested team environment?
              If they have "herd immunity" in the way you think, why would this matter? You're running out arguments without any awareness that they contradict each other.

              Comment


              • #37
                Which makes them the exception, not the rule. Almost half of the WCHA series scheduled have been postponed.

                Yes. Games will be postponed and rescheduled. I said that.

                Wisconsin/Ohio State

                Where is the evidence that they infected each other rather than getting infected from their respective student populations? I have not seen any.

                I don't think you actually understand the concept of herd immunity. It is not a useful way to think about transmission between individuals in a small group that has lots of close interaction. Herd immunity is a situation in which the spread of a disease is arrested because a sufficiently high percentage of a total population has immunity, so it becomes difficult to transmit between random individuals interacting. A hockey team is not large enough to constitute a meaningful population, and there is nothing random about the interactions. If one teammate has the disease, and another is not immune, the relative proportions of the population that has immunity is irrelevant.
                True. You are correct on this argument relative to an individual on the team. However it is unlikely to knock out an entire team. That is the point. Not saying that no one could get it.

                Unless you're going to argue that players should have zero contact with their families over the holidays, parents and grandmas are effectively at the games.

                No, parents and grandma are not effectively at the games. If the players are tested 3 times a week, they know who is infected and who is not. You ignore the testing factor. Players can be tested before they go home. They are not tested 3 times a week when they are home. Parents and Grandma are effectively at the parties when the players are at home


                If they have "herd immunity" in the way you think, why would this matter? You're running out arguments without any awareness that they contradict each other.[/QUOTE]
                Last edited by Rightnut; 12-10-2020, 02:15 PM.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Rightnut View Post
                  Which makes them the exception, not the rule. Almost half of the WCHA series scheduled have been postponed.

                  Yes. Games will be postponed and rescheduled. I said that.

                  Wisconsin/Ohio State

                  Where is the evidence that they infected each other rather than getting infected from their respective student populations? I have not seen any.

                  I don't think you actually understand the concept of herd immunity. It is not a useful way to think about transmission between individuals in a small group that has lots of close interaction. Herd immunity is a situation in which the spread of a disease is arrested because a sufficiently high percentage of a total population has immunity, so it becomes difficult to transmit between random individuals interacting. A hockey team is not large enough to constitute a meaningful population, and there is nothing random about the interactions. If one teammate has the disease, and another is not immune, the relative proportions of the population that has immunity is irrelevant.
                  True. You are correct on this argument relative to an individual on the team. However it is unlikely to knock out an entire team. That is the point. Not saying that no one could get it.

                  Unless you're going to argue that players should have zero contact with their families over the holidays, parents and grandmas are effectively at the games.

                  No, parents and grandma are not effectively at the games. If the players are tested 3 times a week, they know who is infected and who is not. You ignore the testing factor. Players can be tested before they go home. They are not tested 3 times a week when they are home. Parents and Grandma are effectively at the parties when the players are at home


                  If they have "herd immunity" in the way you think, why would this matter? You're running out arguments without any awareness that they contradict each other.
                  [/QUOTE]

                  Rightnut...it has knocked out entire teams. NMU being the most recent example. Also, if you have actually read the articles I linked -- yes, it's a lot of reading but, I chose to link all of those to show that player to player transmission associated specifically with games and/or practices isn't a theory or belief with just a few examples -- you would see that, due to the unique nature of the playing surface (cold, dry air and boards/glass surrounding it's entirety, along with it causing significant exhalation to play) this sport is far and away the riskiest of all. There absolutely is definitive evidence that player to player transmission has occurred. Period. End of story.

                  Now, IF, repeat IF, the players, coaches, and officials can be tested 2-3 times per week, and players who test positive are properly removed from the team setting and quarantined, there is a possibility that we can play somewhat safely. However, there is legitimate evidence and concern regarding the incidence of post-infection myocarditis and lung scarring in athletes. Especially since those are being found in even asymptomatic individuals. I've been debating this specific issue with Chuck Murray, Jeb, and others over in the Hockey East thread and in the Cafe's Covid thread. It's a lot to absorb but, I urge you to actually read everything and I'd be interested in what you think. Here's Part 1...

                  Chuck....I'm sorry you ended up with a headache today. I really am. However, I doubt I was the cause. Also, I'm pretty confident I haven't posted anything that would come close to getting myself banned. But, I do appreciate your concern...Here's "Part 1" of my response...

                  As for the prevalence of myocarditis and lung-scarring in post-Covid infected athletes, allow me to provide some evidence that supports my concerns.

                  First is an article from MEDPAGE TODAY that analyzes the potential long and short-term effects of myocarditis. Both in athletes and non-athletes. Here's the link:

                  https://www.medpagetoday.com/infecti.../covid19/88487

                  From the article: "One study found myocarditis in 15% of college athletes who tested positive, largely after mild or no symptoms."

                  "Myocarditis is the top concern around COVID-19 for college athletics, due to the risk it poses for cardiac arrhythmia and sudden cardiac death."
                  "Newly released European Society of Cardiology guidelines suggested that people with myocarditis should hold off on vigorous exercise likely for 3 to 6 months."

                  Next, here's a link to a Forbes article...

                  https://www.forbes.com/sites/joshuac...h=2afa331b2be0

                  From the article... "Earlier this week the Washington Post featured an article on Covid-19 survivors in Bergamo, Italy, 50% of whom say they still haven’t fully recovered. Doctors interviewed in Bergamo discussed a follow-up study they conducted this summer of long-term patients. Among 750 patients screened, about 30% still have lung scarring and breathing trouble. Another 30% have problems of inflammation and clotting, including heart abnormalities and artery blockages."

                  "Preliminary, and as yet unpublished, data revealed that in the U.S. approximately 15% of a sample of college athletes who contracted the coronavirus - most of whom had experienced mild or no symptoms - were diagnosed with myocarditis. Myocarditis is inflammation of the heart caused by a viral infection, such as the coronavirus, that can lead to rapid or abnormal heart rhythms and even sudden cardiac death."

                  Here's another article from "The Conversation" (from Nov. 4th)...

                  https://theconversation.com/even-if-...to-know-149243

                  From the article... "New research now shows that even young people with COVID-19 who are asymptomatic are at risk for developing potentially dangerous inflammation around the heart. I am an imaging cardiologist who is developing diagnostic techniques to assess changes in heart muscle function in patients with COVID-19. In a study released Nov. 4, my colleagues and I found evidence of heart abnormalities in over one-third of student athletes who tested positive for COVID-19 and underwent cardiac screening at West Virginia University this fall. While we didn’t detect ongoing damage to the heart muscle itself, we frequently found evidence of inflammation and excess fluid in the pericardium, the sac around the heart. Almost all of the 54 students tested had either mild COVID-19 or were asymptomatic."

                  To help them develop standards, I and other cardiologists from the U.S., Canada, U.K. and Australia reviewed the current evidence and wrote an expert consensus statement. A similar statement focused on myocarditis was published by some of the same doctors in JAMA Cardiology.

                  We suggest the following:
                  • Any student athlete testing positive for COVID-19 should follow quarantine rules and avoid exposing their teammates, coaches or anyone else to the virus.
                  • Before returning to play, athletes who test positive for COVID-19 should consult with their physicians to determine if heart screening tests are needed. Although routine testing is not recommended for all asymptomatic individuals, a physician should determine on an individual basis when the risks are high enough.
                  • If an athlete has active myocarditis, we recommend no competition or strenuous training for three to six months, with follow-up exams with a cardiologist. Exercise can worsen the disease’s progression and create arrhythmias, or irregular heartbeat. After that period, the athlete can gradually resume exercise and play if he or she has no lingering inflammation or arrhythmia.
                  • If an athlete has active features of pericarditis, we also recommend restricting exercise, since it can exacerbate inflammation or cause inflammation to return. Athletes should avoid competitive sports during the acute phase. Once tests show no inflammation or excess fluid, the athlete should be able to return to play.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Here's Part 2....

                    Here's a link to an article from the "Scientific American"...

                    https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...-any-symptoms/

                    From the article... From an offensive lineman at Indiana University dealing with possible heart issues to a University of Houston player opting out of the season because of “complications with my heart,” the news has been coming fast and furiously. More than a dozen athletes at Power Five conference schools have been identified as having myocardial injury following coronavirus infection, according to ESPN; two of the conferences—the Big Ten and the Pac-12—already have announced they are postponing all competitive sports until 2021. And in Major League Baseball, Boston Red Sox ace pitcher Eduardo Rodriguez told reporters that he felt “100 years old” as a result of his bout with COVID, and of MLB’s shortened season because of myocarditis—an inflammation of the heart muscle, often triggered by a virus. Said Rodriguez: “That’s [the heart is] the most important part of your body, so when you hear that … I was kind of scared a little. Now that I know what it is, it’s still scary.”

                    Why are these athletes (and their leagues and conferences) taking such extreme precautions? It’s because of the stakes. Though it often resolves without incident, myocarditis can lead to severe complications such as abnormal heart rhythms, chronic heart failure and even sudden death. Just a few weeks ago, a former Florida State basketball player, Michael Ojo, died of suspected heart complications just after recovering from a bout of COVID-19 in Serbia, where he was playing pro ball.

                    Here’s the background: Myocarditis appears to result from the direct infection of the virus attacking the heart, or possibly as a consequence of the inflammation triggered by the body’s overly aggressive immune response. And it is not age-specific: In The Lancet, doctors recently reported on an 11-year-old child with multisystem inflammatory syndrome (MIS-C)—a rare illness—who died of myocarditis and heart failure. At autopsy, pathologists were able to identify coronavirus particles present in the child’s cardiac tissue, helping to explain the virus’ direct involvement in her death. In fact, researchers are reporting the presence of viral protein in the actual heart muscle, of six deceased patients. Of note is the fact that these patients were documented to have died of lung failure, having had neither clinical signs of heart involvement, nor a prior history of cardiac disease.

                    Samuel called it “extremely dangerous” for athletes diagnosed with myocarditis to play competitive sports for at least three to six months, because of the risk of serious arrhythmia or sudden death, and several athletes already have made the decision to heed those dire warnings. We’ll likely see more such decisions in the very near future, as each sport enters its peak season.

                    Here's the last paragraph from the article for those like Chuck and Jeb who are constantly trying to say that masks, social distancing, and avoiding large gatherings is THE best way to prevent catching the virus...

                    "And for the rest of us? Wear a mask, social distance, avoid large gatherings, and spend more time in the great outdoors. I would echo the advice of J.N.: “Be careful. Just don’t get the virus in the beginning.” As of today, it’s still the best defense we’ve got...

                    To close, let's play this out under the current thought that between 10 and 15% of all collegiate athletes who contract Covid (many who're asymptomatic) develop some form of myocarditis. Approximately 480,000 athletes play at all levels of the NCAA (from the NCAA website). At the moment, Scott Gottlieb is estimating that by the end of this year approximately 30% of the U.S. population will have been infected. So, 30% of the 480,000 NCAA athletes is approximately 144,000. And, if even 10% of those who’ve contracted Covid have been also been diagnosed with some level of myocarditis, that’s a total of approximately 14,400 athletes who have likely developed some level of post-Covid infection myocarditis…
                    Above, you asked me… “On a serious note ... are you saying that a small handful of cases of myocarditis among tens of thousands of NCAA athletes is in any way comparable to the situation (some would say "epidemic") of NCAA athletes with concussions/head injuries, which have even more significant/extensive adverse outcomes than those who suffer from myocarditis (regardless of causation)?”
                    I’ll finish by answering your question with a question… Are you really going to try and argue that 14,400 meets the definition of “a small handful of cases of myocarditis?” If so, I think you’ll find you’ll be standing alone on that island.

                    Comment


                    • #40

                      Rightnut...it has knocked out entire teams. NMU being the most recent example.
                      So they can go back to playing. If they have all had it they are good to go. They all got tested, did the post Covid heart testing and all passed. I know people on that team.

                      Also, if you have actually read the articles I linked -- yes, it's a lot of reading but, I chose to link all of those to show that player to player transmission associated specifically with games and/or practices isn't a theory or belief with just a few examples -- you would see that, due to the unique nature of the playing surface (cold, dry air and boards/glass surrounding it's entirety, along with it causing significant exhalation to play) this sport is far and away the riskiest of all. So hockey is far and away riskier than say - wrestling? Is there any definitive evidence of any college hockey teams infecting the other team. I have not seen any stories on that. I have been playing men's league hockey continuously through this on two different teams at different rinks and there has not been one instance of players passing it on to each other or other teams. Have guys gotten it- yes. But not from hockey. Is there that risk? Of course. There is also a risk in going to the store. There absolutely is definitive evidence that player to player transmission has occurred. Period. End of story.

                      Now, IF, repeat IF, the players, coaches, and officials can be tested 2-3 times per week, and players who test positive are properly removed from the team setting and quarantined, there is a possibility that we can play somewhat safely. Which is what they are doing. However, there is legitimate evidence and concern regarding the incidence of post-infection myocarditis and lung scarring in athletes. So they won't get post infection myocarditis or scarring if they catch Covid at home at a house party? Especially since those are being found in even asymptomatic individuals. I've been debating this specific issue with Chuck Murray, Jeb, and others over in the Hockey East thread and in the Cafe's Covid thread. It's a lot to absorb but, I urge you to actually read everything and I'd be interested in what you think. Here's Part 1...

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        All of the above examples of inadvertent contaminations are a fact, but as it should be, it still comes down to each school making its own decision as to whether the risk can be properly managed. Those who have been able to keep their teams healthy and will continue to do so should be allowed to play. I can only speak for Colgate, where from day one of the fall semester everyone on campus quarantined for 2 full weeks in the dorms upon arrival (the Pres quarantined with the kids in the dorms as well). Since then they have slowly allowed more and more freedom and although they had some positive cases earlier in the fall restrictions are still fairly tight to the point where there has not been a positive test involving anyone in the college community since October 14th. That would be impossible for Ohio State of Wisconsin or Minnesota. That said, Hamilton, NY is a town of fewer than 4,000 people and the Colgate campus with employees is +/- 3,700. So Colgate is highly confident its athletes are negative when they play and will remain that way and I assume would not be playing teams like Syracuse and Clarkson so far and St Lawrence and Quinappiac coming up in Jan if they felt there was any meaningful risk. That said in other places it certainly is and will continue to be a big issue as it has been with youth hockey in MA and other parts of NE where I live. Until scientific data and reasonable precautions indicate otherwise...Go 'Gate

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                        • #42
                          Clarkson playing LIU in Potsdam on Jan 11 & 12 according to the latest schedule on the Clarkson web site.
                          Fan of CLARKSON: 2014, 2017 & 2018 NC$$ WOMEN'S DIV 1 HOCKEY NATIONAL CHAMPIONS *******https://fanforum.uscho.com/core/images/smilies/smile.gi************
                          And of 3 Patty Kaz recepients: Jamie Lee Rattray, Loren Gabel and Elizabeth Giguere
                          WHOOOOOOOOO WHOOOOOOOOO
                          If Union Can Do It So Can CCT (One of These Years) *******https://fanforum.uscho.com/core/images/smilies/smile.gi************

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                          • #43
                            Colgate handled #10 Qpac pretty easily 4-0.

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