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Utica Hockey more D1 speculation less Fish/Nubs d-baggery

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  • #46
    Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post
    Utica has a shot at a D-3 NC where it currently resides.
    Do they though? Maybe worry about winning that first tournament game before we talk about national championships.

    Also, if frozen four appearances is the benchmark, “bottom feeder “ RIT has been to as many frozen fours in D1 as Utica has in D3. So really UU has been just as unsuccessful where they are now.

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    • #47
      Originally posted by IceKnights20 View Post

      Do they though? Maybe worry about winning that first tournament game before we talk about national championships.

      Also, if frozen four appearances is the benchmark, “bottom feeder “ RIT has been to as many frozen fours in D1 as Utica has in D3. So really UU has been just as unsuccessful where they are now.
      Yeah. So why make it even more difficult?

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      • #48
        Ok I never get into these but..........as I tell my daughter who is a volleyball player who is getting recruited by D1-D3,its not ALL about the volleyball, the school is the MOST important issue, few if any of both the hockey and volleyball players are going to make a living playing ball , focus on the school,NOT what division it is........as far as $$$ goes thats another issue for some..........ok as you were..........

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        • #49
          Originally posted by AMC View Post

          Just out of curiosity, if "reaching the Frozen Four" is the only measuring stick of success how many appearances would qualify?

          Here's the list of schools that are "more successful" than RIT since RIT became NCAA tournament eligible (i.e. have more than 1 Frozen Four appearance): Minnesota, Michigan, Denver, Minnesota State, Minnesota-Duluth, Massachusetts, Notre Dame, Quinnipiac, North Dakota, Boston U., Boston College, St. Cloud, Union, Miami

          Here's the list of schools that are "as successful" as RIT: Providence, Ohio State, Harvard, Omaha, Yale, Lowell, Ferris State, Wisconsin, Vermont, Bemidji State

          Here's a selected list of schools that are "less succesful" than RIT: Maine, New Hampshire, Northeastern, UConn, Cornell, Colgate, St. Lawrence, Clarkson, Princeton, Penn State (limited sample), Michigan State, Colorado College
          *Sigh*

          Try to keep up.

          This thread is about whether or not Utica going D-1 makes sense in any context. The RIT experience is a cautionary tale in that regard, via any reasonable metric. Garnering the odd AHA AQ, then getting trounced earlier rather that later, isn't a selling point as far as Utica's prospective move goes.

          Goddamn people, this isn't all that complicated. The choice is basically to recruit well and compete nationally at the D-3 level, or to enter obscurity at the D-1 level, at least for the next several years. Not akin to solving the riddle of cold fusion.
          Last edited by Fishman'81; 10-02-2023, 08:42 PM.

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          • #50
            The caveat for this whole discussion is what is driving this move. If Utica wants to move its athletic department to Div II, then moving the hockey team to Div I is collateral damage for the good of the rest of the athletic department. If the hockey team is the reason for moving the rest of the athletic department, then Fish's arguments are valid ones. Not sure which side I would come down on, but I can definitely see his point of view...
            Steve
            Penn State Class of '95
            Plattsburgh State Class of '99

            If corn oil is made from corn, and vegetable oil is made from vegetables, then what is baby oil made from?

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            • #51
              Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post

              *Sigh*

              Try to keep up.

              This thread is about whether or not Utica going D-1 makes sense in any context. The RIT experience is a cautionary tale in that regard, via any reasonable metric. Garnering the odd AHA AQ, then getting trounced earlier rather that later, isn't a selling point as far as Utica's prospective move goes.

              Goddamn people, this isn't all that complicated. The choice is basically to recruit well and compete nationally at the D-3 level, or to enter obscurity at the D-1 level, at least for the next several years. Not akin to solving the riddle of cold fusion.
              Fish I hate to be the bearer of bad news but its going to happen. You are looking at it from strictly the hockey team's point of view. It's happening because the entire university benefits. If the hockey team was the only beneficiary of the move then it wouldn't happen.

              This is you worried that you can't attend the Utica vs Kings games where UC wins by double digits.

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              • #52
                Originally posted by JSicedog View Post

                Fish I hate to be the bearer of bad news but its going to happen. You are looking at it from strictly the hockey team's point of view. It's happening because the entire university benefits. If the hockey team was the only beneficiary of the move then it wouldn't happen.

                This is you worried that you can't attend the Utica vs Kings games where UC wins by double digits.
                Now next year he gets to watch them lose to Geneseo, you know a team that was in an actual conference for a long time and can win games in the national tournament
                Oswego 22' and 23' Student Section Leader 2022-2024. If you heard a weird or offensive chant during an Oswego Hockey Broadcast during that time... odds are my friend Tim and I started it.

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                • #53
                  Originally posted by spwood View Post
                  The caveat for this whole discussion is what is driving this move. If Utica wants to move its athletic department to Div II, then moving the hockey team to Div I is collateral damage for the good of the rest of the athletic department. If the hockey team is the reason for moving the rest of the athletic department, then Fish's arguments are valid ones. Not sure which side I would come down on, but I can definitely see his point of view...
                  It's a little of both from what I do know. They had the D2 conference have a spot open which creates a great geographical fit, but they also want to move hockey up because of the reasons both financial and competitively that have already been talked about

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                  • #54
                    Originally posted by spwood View Post
                    The caveat for this whole discussion is what is driving this move. If Utica wants to move its athletic department to Div II, then moving the hockey team to Div I is collateral damage for the good of the rest of the athletic department. If the hockey team is the reason for moving the rest of the athletic department, then Fish's arguments are valid ones. Not sure which side I would come down on, but I can definitely see his point of view...
                    I don't see how any current Utica program would benefit in any respect via going to D-1. Utica sports in general are poor/mediocre to fairly good in D-3, but certainly nowhere near ready to succeed at the next level as a group.


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                    • #55
                      Originally posted by JSicedog View Post

                      Fish I hate to be the bearer of bad news but its going to happen. You are looking at it from strictly the hockey team's point of view. It's happening because the entire university benefits. If the hockey team was the only beneficiary of the move then it wouldn't happen.

                      This is you worried that you can't attend the Utica vs Kings games where UC wins by double digits.
                      I hate the blowout games vs. schools who threw away money even by so much as starting a so much D-3 program in the first place. (Kings, et al.) Sounds like Utica is looking at much the same scenario in D-1, but on the short side of the equation.

                      I only have hearsay to reference, but people tell me that the AHA doesn't have a keen interest in adding another no-name school who will basically be cannon-fodder for the real D-1 programs. If you actually presented some financial facts, instead of settling for simply being The Wizard of Oz*, you might gain some credibility in this discussion.

                      *(I was gonna say "a dick", but my Mama raised me right.)

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                      • #56
                        Originally posted by Fishman'81 View Post

                        I hate the blowout games vs. schools who threw away money even by so much as starting a so much D-3 program in the first place. (Kings, et al.) Sounds like Utica is looking at much the same scenario in D-1, but on the short side of the equation.

                        I only have hearsay to reference, but people tell me that the AHA doesn't have a keen interest in adding another no-name school who will basically be cannon-fodder for the real D-1 programs. If you actually presented some financial facts, instead of settling for simply being The Wizard of Oz*, you might gain some credibility in this discussion.

                        *(I was gonna say "a dick", but my Mama raised me right.)
                        You are talking to the wrong people then.

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                        • #57
                          What this thing boils down to is whether or not Utica wants to be a biggish D-3 fish in a small pond, or a D-1 also-ran. (At least for the foreseeable future).

                          The AHA has gone 8-20 in the NCAA tournament, even when factoring in the BS AQ's, and an unlikely run by RIT during that one season.

                          As an old geezer, I'd prefer to see more success in the short term. Pretty sure that there's no way in the world that Utica could possibly make a splash in D-1 anytime soon, if ever.

                          But, if I was 25 again, and ignored history, maybe I'd be excited about about moving to D-1, even to D-1 Lite... But be careful what you ask for.

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                          • #58
                            With Utica moving to D1 then we surmise all other athletic teams at their school have to be at least D2 ?

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                            • #59
                              Originally posted by lakont55 View Post
                              With Utica moving to D1 then we surmise all other athletic teams at their school have to be at least D2 ?
                              Yes. That's been the plan all along.
                              Russell Jaslow
                              [Former] SUNYAC Correspondent
                              U.S. College Hockey Online

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                              • #60
                                Originally posted by lakont55 View Post
                                With Utica moving to D1 then we surmise all other athletic teams at their school have to be at least D2 ?
                                That has already been approved by the NCAA pending the hockey program getting a D1 conference home

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