Utica Hockey more D1 speculation less Fish/Nubs d-baggery

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Sixteen new bodies coming in, remember last years team was seniors and grad students. I think that Covid year has been used up now. This team will be interesting, get them in and start to get together.

Anybody that is a current senior is the last group that has the covid-year eligibility. All the true seniors came in 2020-21, which was the season that never really was and didn't have a national tournament at all.

[Fishman'81]

Seems to me that no one is addressing the point here, which is assessing the pros and cons of Utica moving to the AHA.

My take:

1. Utica won't be a cheap date for an entire family anymore. That goes to attendance.

2. Utica will definitely take their lumps in the AHA, at least early on, and from the likes of a Bentley, a Canisius, a Mercyhurst... The AHA is composed of no-name teams, just as is the UCHC, but Utica won't beat that group of no-names. That goes to attendance as well.

3. Utica recruits superbly at the D-3 level, but I absolutely expect that to go away for the foreseeable future once they go to the AHA. Hell, Utica's best recruits over the past years- some of whom turned out to be D-3 All Americans- were D-1 cast-offs, including a few from the AHA.

4. The Aud is a fancy D-3 venue, but there are many other fancier venues in D-1. I certainly don't see that rink luring guys away from the top programs on the basis of the barn. (Or the town, for that matter.)

I could go on and on, but not tonight. Still, I haven't heard a coherent peep regarding why this move might possibly be a good idea.

[JSicedog]

Seems to me that no one is addressing the point here, which is assessing the pros and cons of Utica moving to the AHA.

My take:

1. Utica won't be a cheap date for an entire family anymore. That goes to attendance.

2. Utica will definitely take their lumps in the AHA, at least early on, and from the likes of a Bentley, a Canisius, a Mercyhurst... The AHA is composed of no-name teams, just as is the UCHC, but Utica won't beat that group of no-names. That goes to attendance as well.

3. Utica recruits superbly at the D-3 level, but I absolutely expect that to go away for the foreseeable future once they go to the AHA. Hell, Utica's best recruits over the past years- some of whom turned out to be D-3 All Americans- were D-1 cast-offs, including a few from the AHA.

4. The Aud is a fancy D-3 venue, but there are many other fancier venues in D-1. I certainly don't see that rink luring guys away from the top programs on the basis of the barn. (Or the town, for that matter.)

I could go on and on, but not tonight. Still, I haven't heard a coherent peep regarding why this move might possibly be a good idea.

1. True
2. Disagree. Top 15 D3 teams could go to the AHA tomorrow and be fine
3. Why would a kid go to Mercyhurst, Niagara, RMU, AIC over Utica? Schools like Bentley and Holy Cross I could see for the academics, and Army/Air Force for obvious reasons. The pool to recruit from becomes a lot larger as a D1 school.
4. There aren't many, if any, fancier in the AHA.

It is great for the city and school to have a D1 team. That outweighs your opinion that they might be a .500 team for a couple of years and the ticket prices will increase. The Aud is packed when an Oswego or Hamilton play there. Imagine a BU or Cornell coming to play?

[Fishman'81]

1. True
2. Disagree. Top 15 D3 teams could go to the AHA tomorrow and be fine
3. Why would a kid go to Mercyhurst, Niagara, RMU, AIC over Utica? Schools like Bentley and Holy Cross I could see for the academics, and Army/Air Force for obvious reasons. The pool to recruit from becomes a lot larger as a D1 school.
4. There aren't many, if any, fancier in the AHA.

It is great for the city and school to have a D1 team. That outweighs your opinion that they might be a .500 team for a couple of years and the ticket prices will increase. The Aud is packed when an Oswego or Hamilton play there. Imagine a BU or Cornell coming to play?

4. And imagine a BU or a Cornell hammering Utica 9-1? How's that going to play in terms of local interest? (As if BU would make that trip for a "bad" win. I doubt that Cornell would, either. Utica would have to go to them for the payday, and get obliterated in the process.) The venues are much nicer elsewhere. It's comparing apples to oranges to rate the Aud against the more modern arenas in D-1.

3. Why would a good recruit settle for the AHA in the first place? Actual NHL prospects don't. Aside from the silly AQ, the AHA wouldn't have garnered a berth but once or twice in the past 20 years.

2. Of course a few D-3 programs could be *somewhat* competitive in the woeful AHA. But where does that get you? Certainly not a D-1 PW berth.

1. Yup.

One needs only look as far as the RIT experiment, which was a complete flop, to see what's down the road for UU. Utica won't be a legit D-1 team in hockey, any more than it was in hoops when NBA HOFer Larry Costello was hired to guide the basketball program.

Not rooting against that miracle happening, but I'm fairly sure that it won't. (Very sure, actually.)

[PrezdeJohnson09]

One needs only look as far as the RIT experiment, which was a complete flop, to see what's down the road for UU. Utica won't be a legit D-1 team in hockey, any more than it was in hoops when NBA HOFer Larry Costello was hired to guide the basketball

RIT experiment a complete flop?

I vehemently disagree there. The men’s program has been very successful all things considered with the D1 move.

How many AHL and NHL players has RIT had since joining D1? Way more than when they were D3.

The Frozen Four appearance alone made that move worth it. New arena that they pack.

[Sir Nubs]

4. And imagine a BU or a Cornell hammering Utica 9-1? How's that going to play in terms of local interest? (As if BU would make that trip for a "bad" win. I doubt that Cornell would, either. Utica would have to go to them for the payday, and get obliterated in the process.) The venues are much nicer elsewhere. It's comparing apples to oranges to rate the Aud against the more modern arenas in D-1.

3. Why would a good recruit settle for the AHA in the first place? Actual NHL prospects don't. Aside from the silly AQ, the AHA wouldn't have garnered a berth but once or twice in the past 20 years.

2. Of course a few D-3 programs could be *somewhat* competitive in the woeful AHA. But where does that get you? Certainly not a D-1 PW berth.

1. Yup.

One needs only look as far as the RIT experiment, which was a complete flop, to see what's down the road for UU. Utica won't be a legit D-1 team in hockey, any more than it was in hoops when NBA HOFer Larry Costello was hired to guide the basketball program.

Not rooting against that miracle happening, but I'm fairly sure that it won't. (Very sure, actually.)

RIT "experiment" a "complete flop"? They made a FROZEN FOUR for the love of Pete. This now surpasses your Utica is a "perennial national power" comment for level of stupidity that has passed through your fingertips.

Go watch UNE score again when it matters.

[Fishman'81]

RIT experiment a complete flop?

I vehemently disagree there. The men’s program has been very successful all things considered with the D1 move.

How many AHL and NHL players has RIT had since joining D1? Way more than when they were D3.

The Frozen Four appearance alone made that move worth it. New arena that they pack.

If memory serves, RIT has garnered exactly one FF appearance over the past 23 years, and it was sent packing immediately thereafter. I couldn't find the attendance info on this dying site, but IIRC, RIT averaged around 700 people last season.

The rest of the sports there I have no idea about,and that is kinda my point. You could ask 1000 people on the street about RIT, and 999 wouldn't even know where it is located... And I live 2 hours from Rochester.

Going D-1 and gleaning next to nothing via the process is what I was talking about. And I still haven't read anything to change my mind. Pretty sure that Utica going there won't change the ongoing calculus, either.

[JSicedog]

If memory serves, RIT has garnered exactly one FF appearance over the past 23 years, and it was sent packing immediately thereafter. I couldn't find the attendance info on this dying site, but IIRC, RIT averaged around 700 people last season.

The rest of the sports there I have no idea about,and that is kinda my point. You could ask 1000 people on the street about RIT, and 999 wouldn't even know where it is located... And I live 2 hours from Rochester.

Going D-1 and gleaning next to nothing via the process is what I was talking about. And I still haven't read anything to change my mind. Pretty sure that Utica going there won't change the ongoing calculus, either.

You are only off by about 2,000 fans, they averaged 2,752 last year. The D1 move is the right move for the school and city.

[Lord_Zubin]

If memory serves, RIT has garnered exactly one FF appearance over the past 23 years, and it was sent packing immediately thereafter. I couldn't find the attendance info on this dying site, but IIRC, RIT averaged around 700 people last season.

The rest of the sports there I have no idea about,and that is kinda my point. You could ask 1000 people on the street about RIT, and 999 wouldn't even know where it is located... And I live 2 hours from Rochester.

Going D-1 and gleaning next to nothing via the process is what I was talking about. And I still haven't read anything to change my mind. Pretty sure that Utica going there won't change the ongoing calculus, either.

RIT averages 2700 paid attendance putting them 29th out of 60 teams and #1 in the AHA. Good luck figuring out what actual attendance is maybe review some highlights on youtube. I will admit AHA definitely has the worst attendance across all of D1 Hockey. Seems to me like RIT should get the hell outta the AHA https://www.uscho.com/stats/attendan...men/2022-2023/

[Jensen35]

If memory serves, RIT has garnered exactly one FF appearance over the past 23 years, and it was sent packing immediately thereafter. I couldn't find the attendance info on this dying site, but IIRC, RIT averaged around 700 people last season.

That one FF is equal to or more than 19 teams from conferences other that AHA and some pretty big historical names on that list like Cornell, Western Mich, Lake State, BG, Clarkson and more. We get it. You dont want to see UU go DI because they will no longer be the bigger fish in the smaller pond, but I believe it will bring a benefit to the entire community of Utica (I am in Utica quite often, several times a year) and have family in the area. I have attended many UC/UU games at the aud. The city loves its hockey and gong to DI will be a positive move.

[Fishman'81]

That one FF is equal to or more than 19 teams from conferences other that AHA and some pretty big historical names on that list like Cornell, Western Mich, Lake State, BG, Clarkson and more. We get it. You dont want to see UU go DI because they will no longer be the bigger fish in the smaller pond, but I believe it will bring a benefit to the entire community of Utica (I am in Utica quite often, several times a year) and have family in the area. I have attended many UC/UU games at the aud. The city loves its hockey and gong to DI will be a positive move.

Well, Cornell is a big name in D-1, but the others you cite simply aren't. I'll bet the farm that 89% of Utica fans couldn't even guess where the Broncos, the Lakers or the Falcons call home... Maybe 98.7%, actually... 23 seasons of talking to people at The Aud has convinced me of that.

Of course, being a big fish in a small pond works for locals. Utica is a "hockey town" only if hockey is affordable, and the team wins. (Just like every other town, in that respect.) NJ didn't leave town because the Utica Devils were drawing as they lost games. That should be obvious. And if the Comets suddenly start to lose, forget about the gate yet again.

I actually took a minute to review the Wiki page re: RIT. Predz can make his case that it was a boost to go D-1, but the evidence is clear: RIT went from a position of D-3 prominence to a complete also-ran in D-1.

Utica has a shot at a D-3 NC where it currently resides. Locals like that possibility, even if nobody outside the City limits gives a crap. That is my point. Going to D-1 and having a snowball's chance at the hardware is tilting at windmills.

[JSicedog]

Well, Cornell is a big name in D-1, but the others you cite simply aren't. I'll bet the farm that 89% of Utica fans couldn't even guess where the Broncos, the Lakers or the Falcons call home... Maybe 98.7%, actually... 23 seasons of talking to people at The Aud has convinced me of that.

Of course, being a big fish in a small pond works for locals. Utica is a "hockey town" only if hockey is affordable, and the team wins. (Just like every other town, in that respect.) NJ didn't leave town because the Utica Devils were drawing as they lost games. That should be obvious. And if the Comets suddenly start to lose, forget about the gate yet again.

I actually took a minute to review the Wiki page re: RIT. Predz can make his case that it was a boost to go D-1, but the evidence is clear: RIT went from a position of D-3 prominence to a complete also-ran in D-1.

Utica has a shot at a D-3 NC where it currently resides. Locals like that possibility, even if nobody outside the City limits gives a crap. That is my point. Going to D-1 and having a snowball's chance at the hardware is tilting at windmills.

This comment makes zero sense. Even when the Comets were losing they were still selling out. Vancouver left due to location, not anything to do with the success of the team in Utica. NJ will never leave Utica unless something drastic happens, at the end of the day it is one of the best hockey markets left for an AHL team.

Curious how Comets tickets will be double what UC's will be when they go D1. But for some reason you think fans won't go to UC games if they go .500, but they would still shell out $40 per ticket for Comets games. Not to mention Comets games are painfully boring.

[Fishman'81]

This comment makes zero sense. Even when the Comets were losing they were still selling out. Vancouver left due to location, not anything to do with the success of the team in Utica. NJ will never leave Utica unless something drastic happens, at the end of the day it is one of the best hockey markets left for an AHL team.

Curious how Comets tickets will be double what UC's will be when they go D1. But for some reason you think fans won't go to UC games if they go .500, but they would still shell out $40 per ticket for Comets games. Not to mention Comets games are painfully boring.

NJ left Utica in maybe the 90's. It happened. I don't follow AHL hockey, but the haven't Comets been in the mix for years? if you think that Utica fans will shell out for a loser, history suggests otherwise. And that goes for any city.

[Fishman'81]

RIT experiment a complete flop?

I vehemently disagree there. The men’s program has been very successful all things considered with the D1 move.

How many AHL and NHL players has RIT had since joining D1? Way more than when they were D3.

The Frozen Four appearance alone made that move worth it. New arena that they pack.

One FF appearance in 23 years doesn't seem to constitute D-! success, especially considering being on the short end of a 9-1 game after the fact.

Not denigrating RIT in any shape or form. Just referencing their experience in terms of what Utica can reasonably expect to happen when and if they make this move. The parallels are strikingly similar.

[AMC]

One FF appearance in 23 years doesn't seem to constitute D-! success, especially considering being on the short end of a 9-1 game after the fact.

Not denigrating RIT in any shape or form. Just referencing their experience in terms of what Utica can reasonably expect to happen when and if they make this move. The parallels are strikingly similar.

Just out of curiosity, if "reaching the Frozen Four" is the only measuring stick of success how many appearances would qualify?

Here's the list of schools that are "more successful" than RIT since RIT became NCAA tournament eligible (i.e. have more than 1 Frozen Four appearance): Minnesota, Michigan, Denver, Minnesota State, Minnesota-Duluth, Massachusetts, Notre Dame, Quinnipiac, North Dakota, Boston U., Boston College, St. Cloud, Union, Miami

Here's the list of schools that are "as successful" as RIT: Providence, Ohio State, Harvard, Omaha, Yale, Lowell, Ferris State, Wisconsin, Vermont, Bemidji State

Here's a selected list of schools that are "less succesful" than RIT: Maine, New Hampshire, Northeastern, UConn, Cornell, Colgate, St. Lawrence, Clarkson, Princeton, Penn State (limited sample), Michigan State, Colorado College