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  • Originally posted by AmericanCadet View Post
    While Ellsworth’s strategy almost worked, it was silly against a team like USM.
    Yes it felt like he was trying to win the game 1-0.

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    • Originally posted by Russell Jaslow View Post

      Small D3 schools are actually adding football programs. At a fairly rapid level. Look at Hilbert. A tiny school.

      Why, you ask? Enrollment. A football program wil bring in about 120 paying students (since D3 doesn't give away athletic scholarships) when all is said and done. Now, would some of those stundets have attended without football? We don't know that. But D3 schools have definitely taken this strategy.
      RJ...you are spot on ....D3 Football is an important revenue producer via tuition, fees, etc for 100+ men on campus, and plenty of schools have added Football for the HS athlete that just wants to give it 4 more years, even if playing time is limited. No Football probably means a minority of those student athletes are attending your college. From my quick research, Norwich net cost is between 25-30k, if you lose 75(Norwich has 88) football players, that's well over $2 million conservatively, and even subtracting the expense of the program, you'd still lose about 1.5 million in revenue.
      Last edited by Bartman; 02-23-2024, 06:23 AM.

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      • I decided to look at some more college’s financial situations in the NEHC. Salve Regina, is TINY. They don’t have a big endowment and lost money. Babson is significantly bigger, bigger revenue, bigger endowment and the made money last year. I couldn’t find actual financial statements for Elmira, but I did find an article that said they took a beating during COVID. UMass Boston is in BAD shape and USM lost money in 2023.

        i pondered the comments regarding football and did some digging. Obviously D1 and D3 are completely different, but I did find this article https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/res...vExpReport.pdf.

        This article does NOT include tuition from football players, but the conclusion was the net negative revenue for the average D3 football program in 2020 was $2.2M. The article also demonstrated that costs were increasing rapidly….and this article was through 2020, which doesn’t include recent high inflation. Additionally everything costs more in the NorthEast, so I think the Norwich is above average for D3 football.

        I also found this dated report from the NCAA about D3 sports. The value I took from it was the cost of the average football program was double the average hockey programs cost. Also the article reminds us the costs that we don’t think of. http://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...2015RevExp.pdf

        While not as confident as before, I still believe football is a negative for Norwich. Ultimately the University must survive as an educational institution and they must deal with a current $12M loss.

        What is the solution? I think you go to the heavy hitting donors and ask them their opinion and their help. Do you want to keep football and hockey? Do you want a competitive hockey program (the reality football will simply not be competitive at Norwich)? If the donors want competitive hockey, they need to cough up more dough. While you can’t give these guys scholarships, you can make it that they don’t have to pay a cent for equipment and have up to date locker rooms.

        The college has to right size their programs. The school needs a President that cares about the hockey.

        Comment


        • I decided to look at some more college’s financial situations in the NEHC. Salve Regina, is TINY. They don’t have a big endowment and lost money. Babson is significantly bigger, bigger revenue, bigger endowment and the made money last year. I couldn’t find actual financial statements for Elmira, but I did find an article that said they took a beating during COVID. UMass Boston is in BAD shape and USM lost money in 2023.

          i pondered the comments regarding football and did some digging. Obviously D1 and D3 are completely different, but I did find this article https://ncaaorg.s3.amazonaws.com/res...vExpReport.pdf.

          This article does NOT include tuition from football players, but the conclusion was the net negative revenue for the average D3 football program in 2020 was $2.2M. The article also demonstrated that costs were increasing rapidly….and this article was through 2020, which doesn’t include recent high inflation. Additionally everything costs more in the NorthEast, so I think the Norwich is above average for D3 football.

          I also found this dated report from the NCAA about D3 sports. The value I took from it was the cost of the average football program was double the average hockey programs cost. Also the article reminds us the costs that we don’t think of. http://www.ncaapublications.com/prod...2015RevExp.pdf

          While not as confident as before, I still believe football is a negative for Norwich. Ultimately the University must survive as an educational institution and they must deal with a current $12M loss.

          What is the solution? I think you go to the heavy hitting donors and ask them their opinion and their help. Do you want to keep football and hockey? Do you want a competitive hockey program (the reality football will simply not be competitive at Norwich)? If the donors want competitive hockey, they need to cough up more dough. While you can’t give these guys scholarships, you can make it that they don’t have to pay a cent for equipment and have up to date locker rooms.

          The college has to right size their programs. The school needs a President that cares about the hockey.

          Comment


          • With the women also losing to Southern Maine I think this is the first time a Norwich hockey team won't be playing in March since like 1997. Fun times around here. I guess this is how 90% of the other fans feel every year.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by ***JCB*** View Post
              With the women also losing to Southern Maine I think this is the first time a Norwich hockey team won't be playing in March since like 1997. Fun times around here. I guess this is how 90% of the other fans feel every year.
              It actually happened in 2022 as well. Women lost to Castleton 1-0 in semis after the men lost to Babson 2-1 in quarterfinals the previous weekend.

              That was the first year of the Tony Mariano Cup and Tony’s last year as AD.

              Hockey was done by Feb. 26.
              The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
              "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
              GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
              GO LAKERS!!!
              GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
              "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
              Oswego State '09

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              • Thanks for the clarification. I guess I think of that year as a second lost Covid year. The team had a few games cancelled and it generally felt like things still weren't really operating at anywhere close to a normal level.

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                • Any updates on the Norwich coaching search?

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                  • Originally posted by ***JCB*** View Post
                    Any updates on the Norwich coaching search?
                    No, but I think you’ll be hearing an announcement in the near future that might surprise some folks. (nothing to do with coaching staff).
                    The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
                    "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
                    GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
                    GO LAKERS!!!
                    GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
                    "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
                    Oswego State '09

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post

                      No, but I think you’ll be hearing an announcement in the near future that might surprise some folks. (nothing to do with coaching staff).
                      Why not say it? It's obviously not a secret and in-house only if you know.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post

                        No, but I think you’ll be hearing an announcement in the near future that might surprise some folks. (nothing to do with coaching staff).
                        New league?

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                        • Originally posted by PuckVoice View Post

                          New league?
                          Welcome to the SUNYAC.

                          Comment


                          • I wonder what league Elmira will join? Seems like everyone is leaving the NEHC?
                            2006, 2010 ECAC West Pick'Em Champion.

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by smbenny View Post
                              I wonder what league Elmira will join? Seems like everyone is leaving the NEHC?
                              They're a full member of the empire 8 once st John Fisher joins in 205-2026 they will have enough teams to form a conference and they are required by empire 8 bylaws to join
                              Oswego 22' and 23' Student Section Leader 2022-2024. If you heard a weird or offensive chant during an Oswego Hockey Broadcast during that time... odds are my friend Tim and I started it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Lord_Zubin View Post

                                They're a full member of the empire 8 once st John Fisher joins in 205-2026 they will have enough teams to form a conference and they are required by empire 8 bylaws to join
                                ok since I’m lazy who would be the other teams in that conference? Thanks!

                                2006, 2010 ECAC West Pick'Em Champion.

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