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Norwich 2022-23 Back to Normal (ish)

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  • Originally posted by ***JCB*** View Post
    Flint, I wasn't trying to critique the women when I said the atmosphere was great and that's all I had to say .
    I know what you said and were trying to say. You bringing up the women was a nice segue because they’re feeling the effects of these policies too; that’s why I brought them up.

    Again, the point about Northfield was that the extremely limited social life for 21-25 year olds doesn’t help COMBINED with the other difficulties. I love living in Northfield but I’m not 21 anymore. If you’re asking kids to pay 10-20k more a year, not allowing them to live off campus for at least a year, and not providing them the same allotment of sticks as the other schools (for example) it doesn’t help. Kids now are choosing between Newport RI, Beverly MA, etc. Not for nothing, Salve and Endicott are both almost 70% female while Norwich is about 30%; that does matter to some guys.

    The hockey team does still volunteer at other sporting events. As far as in game “activities” for fans go, I’ve been open about my disappointment with the results of people who are being paid for “marketing” (including events) in Kreitzberg. The students still go to games, but they’re civilians. The well has been poisoned against all athletics in the Corps. It’s been a growing problem for some time now.

    You’re all making my point without realizing it. They don’t have scorers. They’ve been shutout a ton. The list goes on. Whether you want to admit or not, the fact is that the elite offensive talents who used to come to Norwich are going elsewhere because it’s waaaay cheaper now. Period. Full stop.

    Jerry brought up the BLC. I’m hearing Allen Doyle himself is getting fed up with the school leaning on the BLC to, essentially, fund the program. I know a lot of athletics “boosters” are feeling the same way. The University isn’t financially supporting teams the way they should and they’re relying on fundraising organizations and the donors are getting ticked.

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    • Originally posted by JSicedog View Post

      There isn’t a planet where Norwich is 10-20k more expensive than Hobart, which is one of the priciest schools to attend in New York.
      Priciest BEFORE aid. Hobart is kicking our (donkey) with financial aid packages.

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      • Originally posted by KrbFlint View Post

        On campus living has been done before. Correct. Mike McShane fought it tooth and nail. [BOLD]You obviously missed the point with the late night food options (it’s not about food). [/BOLD]I’m aware there are 16 Canadians; I said that’s the plan for 2024 enrollees. The financial disparity between the McShane era and now is indisputable. Mike once said he never lost a kid because of money (Mark Bolding too, for the record) and now the hockey programs lose kids because of cost routinely. This is a stone cold fact no matter how badly you want it to be Ellsworth’s fault.

        The women might be in first place but if you don’t think they’re in decline, you aren’t paying attention.

        We know you’re connected to the school (and others here too) but you apparently aren’t tuned in to what’s happening with enrollment/athletics/financial aid. [BOLD]As I said, ask anyone in athletics (hint, the rink guys aren’t in those meetings).[/BOLD]

        I love and support both Norwich hockey programs and want them to be elite but the school is currently cutting their (and other sports) legs out from under them while also expecting success.
        so that’s the way you decided to go?

        If you think I didn’t know that you weren’t talking about food, you really know nothing about me.
        if you think I am relying on rink staff, you are doubly mistaken.

        answer this- is Elmira or UMB a better team, both all around, and defensively?
        Four goals against Elmira in a loss (where was defense), three in a win. zero at UMB. Same team, mostly same players.


        You apparently know all, and all the people (including Mike? Ha), Soo I guess I’ll bow out of this discussion.



        Go 'Wick!

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        • Originally posted by jerrynu26 View Post

          so that’s the way you decided to go?

          If you think I didn’t know that you weren’t talking about food, you really know nothing about me.
          if you think I am relying on rink staff, you are doubly mistaken.

          answer this- is Elmira or UMB a better team, both all around, and defensively?
          Four goals against Elmira in a loss (where was defense), three in a win. zero at UMB. Same team, mostly same players.


          You apparently know all, and all the people (including Mike? Ha), Soo I guess I’ll bow out of this discussion.


          I decided to tell you the recruiting difficulties Norwich hockey/athletics are up against. Yes. I went in that direction.

          You aren’t getting your info (on this topic at least) from anyone who is currently working in Norwich athletics. That’s clear.

          Yeah. I know Mike. Steve Mattson too. And Cam. Mark Bolding. Tony Mariano, Ed Hockenbury, George, even Prez himself.

          I’ll answer the question you asked. Elmira is the much better team. This NU team played great that weekend. I don’t think they have the overall talent to play tha way week in and week out and I tried to give some reasons as to why.

          I’ll also bow out. For some reason, you guys are want to argue about things which are provably true. Maybe Ellsworth could have the same financial climate as McShane and still struggle, but we don’t know because he hasn’t. It’s not an indictment of Coach McShane; it’s a criticism of the current handling of the program, financially, by the administration.

          It can irritate you guys that I have inside info, but it doesn’t make it less true.

          Bowing out.
          Last edited by KrbFlint; 01-21-2024, 10:28 AM.

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          • I don't want to argue about things that are provably true and I'm not irritated you know things. I believe there are challenges but I still think everyone associated with the school and the program should work their tails off to try to pack that rink every game and see where recruits choose to play. It's like a darn ace in the hole and it's being squandered. Do you think a real hockey player wants to go to Salve Regina and drive off campus to play at a prep school rink with no fans? BS. But I'm just an old guy who shows up for the games so what do I know.

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            • Originally posted by ***JCB*** View Post
              I don't want to argue about things that are provably true and I'm not irritated you know things. I believe there are challenges but I still think everyone associated with the school and the program should work their tails off to try to pack that rink every game and see where recruits choose to play. It's like a darn ace in the hole and it's being squandered. Do you think a real hockey player wants to go to Salve Regina and drive off campus to play at a prep school rink with no fans? BS. But I'm just an old guy who shows up for the games so what do I know.
              Totally agree. Better attendance helps.

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              • Flint, outstanding points. How can we speak privately?

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                • Originally posted by Bog Hockey View Post
                  Flint, outstanding points. How can we speak privately?
                  bcsucks11@gmail.com (old email address haha)

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                  • Originally posted by KrbFlint View Post

                    You’re all making my point without realizing it. They don’t have scorers. They’ve been shutout a ton. The list goes on. Whether you want to admit or not, the fact is that the elite offensive talents who used to come to Norwich are going elsewhere because it’s waaaay cheaper now. Period. Full stop.
                    This is the final part of this conversation I want to revisit. According to the USCHO stats page Norwich is 49th is goals scored per game. 49th! That's bottom half of D3. Are you telling me we can't get the same "elite offensive talents" as other NEHC teams with similar schedules like Southern Maine and Castleton!? Becuase they are both above us! Jeez forget the recruiting wars with Hobart! Point being there's nowhere to get a beer past 9pm in Castleton either so what's going on with the coaching to lower our offense to their level?

                    The positive here is the Norwich is third in goals allowed per game which means you can tie Hobart 1-1 but come on get aggresive and try to put some pucks in the net!

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                    • went back and took a Quick Look at some attendance stats Norwich,Oswego etc are off by 300-400 or so from 5 yrs ago,I think it is like that across the board, to many people/kids watching it from home?? or to much cable TV....also many schools are having scoring drops, may have to do with sooooo many teams now in D3??..

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                      • Originally posted by ***JCB*** View Post

                        This is the final part of this conversation I want to revisit. According to the USCHO stats page Norwich is 49th is goals scored per game. 49th! That's bottom half of D3. Are you telling me we can't get the same "elite offensive talents" as other NEHC teams with similar schedules like Southern Maine and Castleton!? Becuase they are both above us! Jeez forget the recruiting wars with Hobart! Point being there's nowhere to get a beer past 9pm in Castleton either so what's going on with the coaching to lower our offense to their level?

                        The positive here is the Norwich is third in goals allowed per game which means you can tie Hobart 1-1 but come on get aggresive and try to put some pucks in the net!
                        I certainly agree with you overall. My objective was to outline why I believe the big picture recruiting battles have become more difficult than in the past - which I do believe has at least contributed to the decline in scoring. And yes, I concede that Ellsworth is a defensive minded coach.

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                        • Originally posted by bakdraft21 View Post
                          went back and took a Quick Look at some attendance stats Norwich,Oswego etc are off by 300-400 or so from 5 yrs ago,I think it is like that across the board, to many people/kids watching it from home?? or to much cable TV....also many schools are having scoring drops, may have to do with sooooo many teams now in D3??..
                          Streaming hurts attendance IMO (I’m guilty of it sometimes) and I do think the expansion of d3 hockey has diluted the talent pool. Would Keith Aucoin come to Norwich today with Endicott nearby? Ty Piancentini? I don’t know the answer but I think it merits some thought.

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                          • Originally posted by KrbFlint View Post

                            Streaming hurts attendance IMO (I’m guilty of it sometimes) and I do think the expansion of d3 hockey has diluted the talent pool. Would Keith Aucoin come to Norwich today with Endicott nearby? Ty Piancentini? I don’t know the answer but I think it merits some thought.
                            Depends on the coach/recruiter. Norwich still gets respect.

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                            • Originally posted by bakdraft21 View Post
                              went back and took a Quick Look at some attendance stats Norwich,Oswego etc are off by 300-400 or so from 5 yrs ago,I think it is like that across the board, to many people/kids watching it from home?? or to much cable TV....also many schools are having scoring drops, may have to do with sooooo many teams now in D3??..
                              Kids these days are also watching sports less in general. When I was growing up everything was on cable and it was simple and easy with only 1 price. Now a days people need 15 different streaming apps to watch everything and the pricing is always changing. Things like regional blackouts still existing for digital streaming doesn't help either. I highly doubt most of us were d3 hockey fans until we attended a d3 hockey school, so if we're turning them away from pro sports as a child, I doubt d3 hockey is gonna change their minds when their adults.
                              Oswego 22' and 23' Student Section Leader 2022-2024. If you heard a weird or offensive chant during an Oswego Hockey Broadcast during that time... odds are my friend Tim and I started it.

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                              • I work in media and the Gen Z/Gen Alpha not liking sports as much as the previous generations is a known (and concerning) phenomena.

                                38% of Gen Z does not have a favorite sports team (compared to 25% of general adults).

                                60% of Gen Z have never watched a college sports game compared to 53% of general adults

                                https://digitalcontentnext.org/blog/...win-them-back/

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