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  • Combined D1/D3 FF Site from a Player's Perspective

    Read through the last argument where D3 supporters voiced concerns about the long-standing rumor of combining the D1 and D3 Frozen Four sites and I have some thoughts as someone who has recently played in 2 D3 FFs.

    First, Lake Placid is the worst venue by far. No D3 players, besides maybe one or two SUNYAC schools, want to play in Lake Placid. I can't emphasize enough how grateful we were to not play our FF in that venue. From friends who played for St. Norberts and the look of pictures the atmosphere is awful and moving to an olympic ice sheet after playing on NHL size all year sucks for both your conditioning and your systems. Needless to say, we enjoyed our spring break vacation the year it was held there.

    Second, we played in Ridder and the Aud for our FF.

    Ridder was a beautiful rink and our parents and alumni loved the fact it was in a big city, we have players from all around the country and it is difficult/expensive to get to places like Stevens Point in a weeks notice. It was a little demoralizing playing in a women's arena but the atmosphere for the championship was fun and the hotel/banquet were top notch.

    Utica on the other hand was maybe the ugliest city I have ever seen and difficult for families to get too but they hosted a great tournament. The guys loved played in an AHL arena, it made us enjoy a rare moment of professionalism surrounding by videoboards and light productions. I guess attendance wasn't great but in the championship it seemed loud on the ice as both teams brought good amounts of supporters. Maybe that has to do with the size of the arena. Also the hotel was pretty poor, even by d3 standards.

    Finally my point, every D3 player in the country would LOVE a D1/D3 FF Format. To those people concerned about feeling like we would be playing second fiddle, 95% of D3 teams play in front of family and 12 students every game, it would be very difficult for us to feel like we are playing second fiddle to anyone. D3 hockey is humbling to say the least. The opportunity to play in an NHL arena would be worth the trip in itself, to step on the ice of those hockey cathedrals would be awesome. Even if that means that the place feels empty. Most of the time curtaining off the top row would solve a majority of the problems. Maybe for the first time in most guys careers the could say they played in an NHL rink, that is something they can share with their kids someday.

    My suggestion though is this though: Extend D3 regular season a week, then have D3 semi-Finals at On-Campus Sites, then have single Championship game in 2 weeks in between the D1 Semifinals and Championship game. There are a number of positives to that. (1) Allows 2 weeks for parents, alumni and fans to arrange travel. This is expensive and difficult to do in 1 week for many people, more time is better for everyone. (2) Big cities are cheaper to fly into and players enjoy being there much more than middle of nowhere towns. Also for those saying that California or Tampa is a problem, our parents spent every Christmas break in places like Livonia, MI or Chilliwack, BC. A trip to FL to watch their son play in an NHL rink would be a god send. (3) D3 players get the opportunity to get treated like professionals, something we never get. D1 players get to play in these beautiful rinks on big colleges, D3 guys play at the Valley Forum in Medford in a rink that is -10 degrees. (4) Attendance would be better. Offer the D3 game as included in the weekend pass for the D1 FF. I would be hard pressed to imagine hockey fans would rather sit in their hotel than go watch some really good hockey on that Friday night. Thinking back to 2015 when Boston was the host, a Stevens Point v. Trinity game would have been very well attended considering the amount of people who were already in town for D1, then add on top the 20,000 or so Trinity alumni in Boston/New York/Hartford. Would it be a sell out? Absolutely not, but it might top 6,000 which no D3 player would complain about. (5) Probably the most insignificant point but not surprisingly a lot of D3 guys are close friends with D1 guys, we played junior hockey together or grew up together. Hockey is a small world. It would be great to go watch some of our D1 buddies play on such a big stage and I am sure a lot of them would like to watch their D3 friends get a chance to shine.

    At the end of the day D3 hockey is about athletes trying to squeeze out what is ever left of their hockey careers. The opportunity to play the final game of the season, in an NHL arena would be worth all of that. Will NCAA have to take a loss? Sure but it pales in comparison to what they are making as it stands. If I have missed anything feel free to let me know.

  • #2
    Originally posted by nescac19 View Post
    Read through the last argument where D3 supporters voiced concerns about the long-standing rumor of combining the D1 and D3 Frozen Four sites and I have some thoughts as someone who has recently played in 2 D3 FFs.

    First, Lake Placid is the worst venue by far. No D3 players, besides maybe one or two SUNYAC schools, want to play in Lake Placid. I can't emphasize enough how grateful we were to not play our FF in that venue. From friends who played for St. Norberts and the look of pictures the atmosphere is awful and moving to an olympic ice sheet after playing on NHL size all year sucks for both your conditioning and your systems. Needless to say, we enjoyed our spring break vacation the year it was held there.

    Second, we played in Ridder and the Aud for our FF.

    Ridder was a beautiful rink and our parents and alumni loved the fact it was in a big city, we have players from all around the country and it is difficult/expensive to get to places like Stevens Point in a weeks notice. It was a little demoralizing playing in a women's arena but the atmosphere for the championship was fun and the hotel/banquet were top notch.

    Utica on the other hand was maybe the ugliest city I have ever seen and difficult for families to get too but they hosted a great tournament. The guys loved played in an AHL arena, it made us enjoy a rare moment of professionalism surrounding by videoboards and light productions. I guess attendance wasn't great but in the championship it seemed loud on the ice as both teams brought good amounts of supporters. Maybe that has to do with the size of the arena. Also the hotel was pretty poor, even by d3 standards.

    Finally my point, every D3 player in the country would LOVE a D1/D3 FF Format. To those people concerned about feeling like we would be playing second fiddle, 95% of D3 teams play in front of family and 12 students every game, it would be very difficult for us to feel like we are playing second fiddle to anyone. D3 hockey is humbling to say the least. The opportunity to play in an NHL arena would be worth the trip in itself, to step on the ice of those hockey cathedrals would be awesome. Even if that means that the place feels empty. Most of the time curtaining off the top row would solve a majority of the problems. Maybe for the first time in most guys careers the could say they played in an NHL rink, that is something they can share with their kids someday.

    My suggestion though is this though: Extend D3 regular season a week, then have D3 semi-Finals at On-Campus Sites, then have single Championship game in 2 weeks in between the D1 Semifinals and Championship game. There are a number of positives to that. (1) Allows 2 weeks for parents, alumni and fans to arrange travel. This is expensive and difficult to do in 1 week for many people, more time is better for everyone. (2) Big cities are cheaper to fly into and players enjoy being there much more than middle of nowhere towns. Also for those saying that California or Tampa is a problem, our parents spent every Christmas break in places like Livonia, MI or Chilliwack, BC. A trip to FL to watch their son play in an NHL rink would be a god send. (3) D3 players get the opportunity to get treated like professionals, something we never get. D1 players get to play in these beautiful rinks on big colleges, D3 guys play at the Valley Forum in Medford in a rink that is -10 degrees. (4) Attendance would be better. Offer the D3 game as included in the weekend pass for the D1 FF. I would be hard pressed to imagine hockey fans would rather sit in their hotel than go watch some really good hockey on that Friday night. Thinking back to 2015 when Boston was the host, a Stevens Point v. Trinity game would have been very well attended considering the amount of people who were already in town for D1, then add on top the 20,000 or so Trinity alumni in Boston/New York/Hartford. Would it be a sell out? Absolutely not, but it might top 6,000 which no D3 player would complain about. (5) Probably the most insignificant point but not surprisingly a lot of D3 guys are close friends with D1 guys, we played junior hockey together or grew up together. Hockey is a small world. It would be great to go watch some of our D1 buddies play on such a big stage and I am sure a lot of them would like to watch their D3 friends get a chance to shine.

    At the end of the day D3 hockey is about athletes trying to squeeze out what is ever left of their hockey careers. The opportunity to play the final game of the season, in an NHL arena would be worth all of that. Will NCAA have to take a loss? Sure but it pales in comparison to what they are making as it stands. If I have missed anything feel free to let me know.
    Welcome to the board! Great post and interesting perspective from a player for sure.

    I will provide some context that there was a proposal put forth to try and combine the D3 championship with the D1 back in 2012 or 2013 I believe and ultimately it was killed by the D3 championships committee.

    The extension of the season by another 3 weeks puts strain on already limited D3 support staffs like AT, Equipment and SID. If it combined with d1, a handful of teams would now have winter season going through almost the entire spring season. The crossover seasons are already brutal enough.

    Coming from the NESCAC itís interesting you have the perspective to try and extend the season since the NESCACís values try to preach to allow student-athletes to try and compete in 2 or 3 different seasons by aligning their competition seasons differently than most other conferences.

    I personally would like to see the D3 men and women try and combined Championship once. The seasons already align or are off by one week lately. Having a combined championship in Minneapolis, Boston, Utica, Buffalo etc would be interesting to try once or twice in my opinion.
    The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
    "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
    GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
    GO LAKERS!!!
    GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
    "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
    Oswego State '09

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    • #3
      Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
      Welcome to the board! Great post and interesting perspective from a player for sure.

      I will provide some context that there was a proposal put forth to try and combine the D3 championship with the D1 back in 2012 or 2013 I believe and ultimately it was killed by the D3 championships committee.

      The extension of the season by another 3 weeks puts strain on already limited D3 support staffs like AT, Equipment and SID. If it combined with d1, a handful of teams would now have winter season going through almost the entire spring season. The crossover seasons are already brutal enough.

      Coming from the NESCAC itís interesting you have the perspective to try and extend the season since the NESCACís values try to preach to allow student-athletes to try and compete in 2 or 3 different seasons by aligning their competition seasons differently than most other conferences.

      I personally would like to see the D3 men and women try and combined Championship once. The seasons already align or are off by one week lately. Having a combined championship in Minneapolis, Boston, Utica, Buffalo etc would be interesting to try once or twice in my opinion.
      It would be a madhouse if they played the D-3 final at the Bruins practice facility which holds 1500 people...maybe something like Tsongas or something in Boston would be interested
      Yes I am the former member known as Zlax45

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      • #4
        Re: Combined D1/D3 FF Site from a Player's Perspective

        Originally posted by The Zlax45 View Post
        It would be a madhouse if they played the D-3 final at the Bruins practice facility which holds 1500 people...maybe something like Tsongas or something in Boston would be interested
        We get to play at the Warrior Complex next month....Ive heard its a cluster to say the least around there....
        Remy Babineaux
        remyb616@gmail.com
        D3FHL Web Page

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        • #5
          Re: Combined D1/D3 FF Site from a Player's Perspective

          Originally posted by PrezdeJohnson09 View Post
          Welcome to the board! Great post and interesting perspective from a player for sure.

          I will provide some context that there was a proposal put forth to try and combine the D3 championship with the D1 back in 2012 or 2013 I believe and ultimately it was killed by the D3 championships committee.

          The extension of the season by another 3 weeks puts strain on already limited D3 support staffs like AT, Equipment and SID. If it combined with d1, a handful of teams would now have winter season going through almost the entire spring season. The crossover seasons are already brutal enough.

          Coming from the NESCAC itís interesting you have the perspective to try and extend the season since the NESCACís values try to preach to allow student-athletes to try and compete in 2 or 3 different seasons by aligning their competition seasons differently than most other conferences.

          I personally would like to see the D3 men and women try and combined Championship once. The seasons already align or are off by one week lately. Having a combined championship in Minneapolis, Boston, Utica, Buffalo etc would be interesting to try once or twice in my opinion.
          Do you have to extend the season by that much or can you simply readjust the schedule? Right now many D3 hockey teams come back to campus with an abbreviated Christmas Break while the rest of campus is shut down longer. Give the hockey teams more time off then and start the 2nd part of the schedule later and align with D1. The issue might be the academics. D3 should be academics first and the longer the hockey season goes the closer to finals which for some student athletes, is stressful. Not sure that factors in to the decision at all.

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          • #6
            Re: Combined D1/D3 FF Site from a Player's Perspective

            Originally posted by MELIN27 View Post
            Do you have to extend the season by that much or can you simply readjust the schedule? Right now many D3 hockey teams come back to campus with an abbreviated Christmas Break while the rest of campus is shut down longer. Give the hockey teams more time off then and start the 2nd part of the schedule later and align with D1. The issue might be the academics. D3 should be academics first and the longer the hockey season goes the closer to finals which for some student athletes, is stressful. Not sure that factors in to the decision at all.
            This probably won't work because you have some 2 sport athletes that play baseball or lacrosse, too.
            Middlebury Hockey....The Greatest DIII Show on Skates

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            • #7
              Originally posted by neumyer View Post
              This probably won't work because you have some 2 sport athletes that play baseball or lacrosse, too.
              Youíre talking about FOUR teams out of 84 teams. It wouldnít be extending the season for the 80 other D3 hockey teams.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by neumyer View Post
                This probably won't work because you have some 2 sport athletes that play baseball or lacrosse, too.
                And you most likely will have flights for the semis, with extra flights for the final (unless everyone would be okay with the east and west regions separately playing down to one representative). The NCAA wouldn't cough up any extra money for that.
                Go 'Wick!

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                • #9
                  Re: Combined D1/D3 FF Site from a Player's Perspective

                  Originally posted by d3hockey57 View Post
                  Youíre talking about FOUR teams out of 84 teams. It wouldnít be extending the season for the 80 other D3 hockey teams.
                  You're right. But with how competitive D3 hockey has become I think 20-25 teams have to legitimately consider that their season could be extended further if everything falls the right way. Now you're talking about 1/4th of the teams playing D3 hockey that it could affect annually.
                  The Poster Formerly Known as Purple_and_Gold10©
                  "The Prezidential Three - Elmira, Oswego, Norwich" © Joecct
                  GO EAGLES!!! R.I.P. L.H. #4 In our hearts forever
                  GO LAKERS!!!
                  GO CADETS!!! R.I.P. Charlie Crosby '63
                  "Reisweber trying to circle in front of the net, he does, HE SCORES! that's it! Oswego State has done it!! The Lakers take home the first NCAA title of any kind in school history. It's celebration time in Upstate New York!"
                  Oswego State '09

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Combined D1/D3 FF Site from a Player's Perspective

                    This players perspective,Waaaaay back in the day in 87',1987 that is,walking into the Ronnie B some 2 hrs before gametime the place was packed with I think 4000+,that was a College Championship atmosphere,not sure if it was at the Ronnie B due to Plattys best record or it was pre-set,anyway we should try and do it that way...

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                    • #11
                      Re: Combined D1/D3 FF Site from a Player's Perspective

                      Originally posted by neumyer View Post
                      This probably won't work because you have some 2 sport athletes that play baseball or lacrosse, too.
                      I could be off base, but I think missing a couple of early season practices/games to compete for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP would be acceptable. Also, outside of the Nescac, I don't know how many hockey players are playing a spring sport.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KrbFlint View Post
                        I could be off base, but I think missing a couple of early season practices/games to compete for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP would be acceptable. Also, outside of the Nescac, I don't know how many hockey players are playing a spring sport.
                        Interestingly, there is a discussion on the D1 threads to start the D1 season earlier so it can finish earlier and avoid the bye week during the Final Fours. Doing so would avoid the D3 issues currently under discussion.
                        CCT '77 & '78
                        4 kids
                        5 grandsons (BCA 7/09, CJA 5/14, JDL 8/14, JFL 6/16, PJL 7/18)
                        1 granddaughter (EML 4/18)

                        ĒAny society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.Ē
                        - Benjamin Franklin

                        Banned from the St. Lawrence University Facebook page - March 2016 (But I got better).

                        I want to live forever. So far, so good.

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                        • #13
                          Originally posted by KrbFlint View Post
                          I could be off base, but I think missing a couple of early season practices/games to compete for a NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP would be acceptable. Also, outside of the Nescac, I don't know how many hockey players are playing a spring sport.
                          Plattsburgh has two baseball players and used to have a lacrosse player not too long ago. The womenís hockey team at Plattsburgh has a lacrosse player, and I believe the 2017-18 Elmira womenís hockey team had 4 (I think?)

                          Itís probably not as uncommon as youíd think.
                          Plattsburgh CARDINALS
                          SUNYAC Champ x23: 78, 79, 82, 83, 85, 87, 88, 90, 92, 93, 97, 98, 99, 00, 01, 02, 04, 08, 09, 11, 12, 15, 17
                          ECACW Champ x11: 81, 82, 87, 92, 06, 07, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17
                          NEWHL Champ x2: 18, 19
                          NCAA DIII Champ x10-ish: 87, 92, 01, 07, 08, 14, 15, 16, 17, 19
                          NCAA DIII Runner-up x4-ish: 86, 90, 06, 08
                          NCAA DII Runner-up x2: 81, 82


                          Vermont CATAMOUNTS
                          HEA Runner-up x1:
                          08
                          ECAC Runner-up x1: 89
                          ECAC DII Champ x2: 73, 74
                          NCAA DI Frozen Four x2: 96, 09

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                          • #14
                            Re: Combined D1/D3 FF Site from a Player's Perspective

                            Originally posted by CARDS_rule_the_Burgh View Post
                            Plattsburgh has two baseball players and used to have a lacrosse player not too long ago. The womenís hockey team at Plattsburgh has a lacrosse player, and I believe the 2017-18 Elmira womenís hockey team had 4 (I think?)

                            Itís probably not as uncommon as youíd think.
                            139 D3 hockey teams (men's and women's) x 30 per roster (for sake of discussion) = 4170 D3 ice hockey players. Even if there are 500 two sport athletes, I think that's still pretty rare.

                            At the end of the day, it doesn't affect my point that I would like to think missing early season practices (maybe some games) is acceptable to play for a national title.

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                            • #15
                              Re: Combined D1/D3 FF Site from a Player's Perspective

                              Originally posted by KrbFlint View Post
                              At the end of the day, it doesn't affect my point that I would like to think missing early season practices (maybe some games) is acceptable to play for a national title.
                              I tend to agree, and since they are playing a winter sport their conditioning should be good. Doesn't seem like it would be a huge issue.
                              #OneKnight

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