Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

[antioch1098]

Cortland beat Utica...they must be the best team EVER. You cant go by 1 year. The overall average is StAs is on average a 6th place ECAC East team with and average 26th overall attendance. Far cry from a top DIII team.

Quinnipiac made the jump in 1999 to D1 in all sports. Today, they are one of the best hockey programs in the country. Last year, they almost won the national championship. Also, their arena is the best in college athletics. They are in the best league academically and athletically.

[jerrynu26]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

Quinnipiac made the jump in 1999 to D1 in all sports. Today, they are one of the best hockey programs in the country. Last year, they almost won the national championship. Also, their arena is the best in college athletics. They are in the best league academically and athletically.

Ummm, let's see.
True.
True.
True.
FALSE(see NoDak and Penn as example).
(Arguably) Half True.

[hawkhockey]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

Cortland is only a couple dozen stars, new coach, new administration, and heat away from being "a top D3 team" too....


So let's go DI and be nothing but a DI JV scrimmage game against 95% of DI teams, smart move. Yes, being "stuck" in that small D2 league I'm sure does not attract a lot of top notch players, but an average of 6th? Again, that's a lot of hope of just flipping that switch and being competitive. There are very few teams in DIII that could transition into DI and be successful and St.A's is not even on the first page. AIC, Bently, Michigan Tech, and Sacred Heart I'm sure will greet you with open arms however.


And again, if it was that good, they would attract a few more decent players and not finish an average 6th in the league....


Again, see above. If its such a draw...........


.....and then you woke up.....did you choke on that steak?


Is that because you have your pick of seats with an average of only 18% capacity (476) since 2002?? Place much be rocking!!

So what is your point ? That St.A's should not go DI ? If so I agree. But it seems that the point of your post is try to belittle a program that does relatively well
in a very competitive league. People that have seen St.A's play, Norwich, Babson , UMB, Skidmore, Castleton etc . are not quite as critical as to their level of play as you are. But then again they have an unfair advantage ,as they have seen St.A's play.
Maybe if their tuition was $15,000 and they were located in close proximity to a number of major cities and they had 11 Canadiens and two Swedes on their roster they might be able to come close to meeting your level of excellence.
But I don't see that happening , so they will continue to bump along as cannon fodder in DIII , playing in front of an empty house.

[NUProf]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

So what is your point ? That St.A's should not go DI ? If so I agree. But it seems that the point of your post is try to belittle a program that does relatively well
in a very competitive league. People that have seen St.A's play, Norwich, Babson , UMB, Skidmore, Castleton etc . are not quite as critical as to their level of play as you are. But then again they have an unfair advantage ,as they have seen St.A's play.
Maybe if their tuition was $15,000 and they were located in close proximity to a number of major cities and they had 11 Canadiens and two Swedes on their roster they might be able to come close to meeting your level of excellence.
But I don't see that happening , so they will continue to bump along as cannon fodder in DIII , playing in front of an empty house.

St. Anselm is a good program and if they can move to DIII, the ability to compete in the ECAC E playoffs and potentially the NCAA could really improve their recruiting prospects in the ECAC East.

[elbojpb]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

Sullivan Arena is as good as any of them

Refresh my memory. Doesn't St A's rink have seating on only one side?

[PrezdeJohnson09]

Refresh my memory. Doesn't St A's rink have seating on only one side?

Yes but it has the ability to be expanded to a 4,000 seat arena. Quite easily. It's unfinished right now basically.

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

So what is your point ? That St.A's should not go DI ? If so I agree. But it seems that the point of your post is try to belittle a program that does relatively well in a very competitive league.

I never knew 6th place was "relatively well". I guess Brockport and Cortland must do "relatively well" too....?

People that have seen St.A's play, Norwich, Babson , UMB, Skidmore, Castleton etc . are not quite as critical as to their level of play as you are. But then again they have an unfair advantage ,as they have seen St.A's play.

It's amazing, I have seen St.A's play before...go figure....

Maybe if their tuition was $15,000 and they were located in close proximity to a number of major cities and they had 11 Canadiens and two Swedes on their roster they might be able to come close to meeting your level of excellence.

Other then Montreal (which Plattsburgh gets maybe 1 recruit a year from), what other "major cities" are they near? And its $29,000 for out of state admissions. Yes it may be $48,000 for St.A's, but just like every other Private school, they can offer a lot more FA and other grant programs unlike a state school. There are a couple really good books on it.

Edit: Upon further research from the NCSA -
Plattsburgh's Average Debt On Graduation: $21,010
St. Anselm's Average Debt On Graduation: $27,300
Not really that far off...

St.A's doesn't offer any FA grant programs for international students? Whose fault is that? Once again I ask, if the administration hasn't offered this yet what makes you think they will want to flip a switch and allow it later? Or do they plan on using the "we are DI come join us" approach and not worry about it? St.A's can do what every other major DIII hockey team has done to grow its program and increase the number of those Canadian players on their team, they choose not to.

But I don't see that happening , so they will continue to bump along as cannon fodder in DIII , playing in front of an empty house.

I actually hope they ditch this DI idea, and come play DIII period. At least make the games worth something and give the kids something to play for. But as I said, I sure hope the admin will change their approach to hockey. The whole "we are St.A's, near Bah-stin and have a great hockey rink" will only get you so far unless you don't plan on moving up to that next level of teams.

It wasn't an intent to "belittle" a program. Hawk wanted to make some pretty laughable remarks (not the first time) and was responding. St.A's plays behind the 8-ball, I realize that, but some are acting like you just flip a switch and become a perennial power. Do they have the option of being a good team? Sure. But as I said, an average finish of 6th in the ECAC East, an average crowd of 476, which is an average of 18% capacity is nothing to write home about.

[hawkhockey]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

I never knew 6th place was "relatively well". I guess Brockport and Cortland must do "relatively well" too....?


It's amazing, I have seen St.A's play before...go figure....


Other then Montreal (which Plattsburgh gets maybe 1 recruit a year from), what other "major cities" are they near? And its $29,000 for out of state admissions. Yes it may be $48,000 for St.A's, but just like every other Private school, they can offer a lot more FA and other grant programs unlike a state school. There are a couple really good books on it.

Edit: Upon further research from the NCSA -
Plattsburgh's Average Debt On Graduation: $21,010
St. Anselm's Average Debt On Graduation: $27,300
Not really that far off...

St.A's doesn't offer any FA grant programs for international students? Whose fault is that? Once again I ask, if the administration hasn't offered this yet what makes you think they will want to flip a switch and allow it later? Or do they plan on using the "we are DI come join us" approach and not worry about it? St.A's can do what every other major DIII hockey team has done to grow its program and increase the number of those Canadian players on their team, they choose not to.


I actually hope they ditch this DI idea, and come play DIII period. At least make the games worth something and give the kids something to play for. But as I said, I sure hope the admin will change their approach to hockey. The whole "we are St.A's, near Bah-stin and have a great hockey rink" will only get you so far unless you don't plan on moving up to that next level of teams.

It wasn't an intent to "belittle" a program. Hawk wanted to make some pretty laughable remarks (not the first time) and was responding. St.A's plays behind the 8-ball, I realize that, but some are acting like you just flip a switch and become a perennial power. Do they have the option of being a good team? Sure. But as I said, an average finish of 6th in the ECAC East, an average crowd of 476, which is an average of 18% capacity is nothing to write home about.

not really interested in prolonging this but...
1 " relatively well " is a by product of the overall strength of a league. the ECACE is a competetive league and as such there is very little difference in records or quality in teams 2-6,7.
2 Why would I think you had not seen St.A's play ? Maybe because of previous comment.
3 Remember I said tuition but to use overall cost, if you must , pick the larger number $ 48,000 or $ 29,000. So just to get even, St.a's would have to give every hockey player, regardless of need ,$ 20,000. As to average debt, who cares.

4 other major cities was said tongue in cheek. The closer to other cities the more to do and see in addition to DIII hockey which might have an impact on attendence. keep in mind Plattsburgh has 6,000 students and St.A's is around 1900. Actual seating at Sulllivan arena is 700 and they stop taking attendance when the game starts. Don't know for sure but there maybe more to do in Manchester on the weekend than Plattsburgh.

5 St.A's does not offer FA grant ( scholarship?) money for international students. They also believe that the success or failure of the hockey program does not depend on international students. Just curious,I'm sure the average grant to international hockey players is the same as for the other 325 foreign students at Plattsburgh

6 they are playing a predominantly DIII schedule and have been trying to figure out a way for a waiver to have their games count. This would solve their problem but probably won't happen. Which leaves,reclassifying the entire athletic program to DIII.

7 As to moving up to next level of teams ? who is at that next level beside Plattsburgh ?

[Fishman'81]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

Cortland beat Utica...they must be the best team EVER. You cant go by 1 year. The overall average is StAs is on average a 6th place ECAC East team with and average 26th overall attendance. Far cry from a top DIII team.

Well, you sure have harped on that Utica loss as for nearly a year now, as though it was of major significance, Chumps...

I realize that you have no interest in being anything more than a troll on here, but at least be a consistent troll.

[norm1909]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

Well, you sure have harped on that Utica loss as for nearly a year now, as though it was of major significance, Chumps...

I realize that you have no interest in being anything more than a troll on here, but at least be a consistent troll.

Fishman'81

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

not really interested in prolonging this but...
1 " relatively well " is a by product of the overall strength of a league. the ECACE is a competetive league and as such there is very little difference in records or quality in teams 2-6,7.

The next mid tier teams in the ECAC East after Norwich on average over the past 10 seasons has a 12 pt average differential. The mid SUNYAC has a 7 point average differential. The ECAC East also averages over 60% of their teams having a .500 or below record, the SUNYAC was 37% over the past 9 years.

2 Why would I think you had not seen St.A's play ? Maybe because of previous comment.

There aren't many teams (especially from the east) I don't manage to get to see in a season. While not a bottom feeder, nothing to really turn a head at either.

3 Remember I said tuition but to use overall cost, if you must , pick the larger number $ 48,000 or $ 29,000. So just to get even, St.a's would have to give every hockey player, regardless of need ,$ 20,000. As to average debt, who cares.

Most everyone who actually pays for college cares about average debt. You can have the big "sticker" price tag all you want, but the average cost after all the private grants, scholarships, FA the average student gets at St.A's brings the average debt to just a few thousand more then those cheap state schools, which is what I was pointing out.

4 other major cities was said tongue in cheek. The closer to other cities the more to do and see in addition to DIII hockey which might have an impact on attendence. keep in mind Plattsburgh has 6,000 students and St.A's is around 1900. Actual seating at Sulllivan arena is 700 and they stop taking attendance when the game starts. Don't know for sure but there maybe more to do in Manchester on the weekend than Plattsburgh.

So what you're saying is people from the area just don't care about St.Anselm hockey, those that do come late, but when they go DI that will change, got it. Every place you look, even the St.A's site, lists Sullivan arena hockey game capacity as that. Even if actual capacity is half that, they are still hardly pushing 39% capacity. Rocking! People attend Plattsburgh State, Oswego State, Norwich, ect because their teams are good. Elmira use to boast one of the highest average attendances in DIII and wasn't even on campus, and when the results started to drop, attendance did as well.

5 St.A's does not offer FA grant ( scholarship?) money for international students. They also believe that the success or failure of the hockey program does not depend on international students. Just curious,I'm sure the average grant to international hockey players is the same as for the other 325 foreign students at Plattsburgh

And you keep that "belief", you will do great! It's not a fact of the "don't" its the fact they could but choose not to which makes you question just how much they will be willing to make a successful and competitive hockey program. You will only be a 2nd tier DIII team (let alone DI) with out offering incentives to get Canadian players on your team. The stats are clear as day as to success vs international players across the board, but I forgot you will go DI and compete with Boston College and BU for all those Mass recruits. I mean come on....St. Anselm or Boston College, I'm sure you will do well with that.

and B. Yes it has to be at least 51% to non-athletes to athletes or the NCAA would not allow it....if there is one school the NCAA wants to nail again its Plattsburgh.

6 they are playing a predominantly DIII schedule and have been trying to figure out a way for a waiver to have their games count. This would solve their problem but probably won't happen. Which leaves,reclassifying the entire athletic program to DIII.

And I think you would be hard pressed to find any true DIII fan who wouldn't sign and or fight for St.A's to be included in DIII. It's where they belong and what the kids deserve.

7 As to moving up to next level of teams ? who is at that next level beside Plattsburgh ?

Plattsburgh, Utica, Norwich, St.Norbert, Oswego, Middlebury, Hobart, Neumann, Stout, Adrian, St.Thomas....you know...those teams that actually play meaningful games in March.

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

Well, you sure have harped on that Utica loss as for nearly a year now, as though it was of major significance, Chumps...

I realize that you have no interest in being anything more than a troll on here, but at least be a consistent troll.

LoL YOU of ALL people talking about being consistent? HAHA. Can I borrow the dice you roll when you pick what poll or ranking system you want to promote every other week? The reason we pick on you with Cortland is due to your "We are almighty Utica", yet you can't beat the weakest team in the much weaker SUNYAC conference and Utica actually played a game ON THE ROAD I'm sure Utica would win 9 times out of 10 against Cortland on the road, but that would take about 117 years to find that out seeing how Utica only plays a road game every 7 years or so and are just a .500 team against the bottom half of the SUNYAC on the road, like we've said its no wonder they don't schedule more away games against Cortland lol.

[NUProf]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

LoL YOU of ALL people talking about being consistent? HAHA. Can I borrow the dice you roll when you pick what poll or ranking system you want to promote every other week? The reason we pick on you with Cortland is due to your "We are almighty Utica", yet you can't beat the weakest team in the much weaker SUNYAC conference and Utica actually played a game ON THE ROAD I'm sure Utica would win 9 times out of 10 against Cortland on the road, but that would take about 117 years to find that out seeing how Utica only plays a road game every 7 years or so and are just a .500 team against the bottom half of the SUNYAC on the road, like we've said its no wonder they don't schedule more away games against Cortland lol.

Guys, can we keep the back and forth confined to one place?

[Sonny]

Re: Saint Anselm possibly moving up to D-I?

Guys, can we keep the back and forth confined to one place?

Fact
1. Cortland beat the pants off of Utica last season 5-0
2. Utica dropped Cortland from their schedule so further arguments about that match up is futile.
3. Past history, attendance, tuition, ugly coaches, no band, DIII championships DO NOT indicate whether or not a school moving up a division will be successful.
4. Playing an extra 3 games for a DIII championship is nice but not life changing.

Nice debate though...

[Ozz]

Well, you sure have harped on that Utica loss as for nearly a year now, as though it was of major significance, Chumps...

I realize that you have no interest in being anything more than a troll on here, but at least be a consistent troll.

The ironic part is that Champs was actually giving Utica a compliment by using that game in his argument..