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Nescac '12-'13

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  • #16
    Re: Nescac '12-'13

    Originally posted by neumyer View Post
    I might be wrong,but my guess is that Amherst could build a palace for a hockey rink and they would still draw about 200 per game after the novelty of seeing the new rink wore off. There are very few hockey fans down there and the preponderance of fans will be at the basketball game leaving hockey to play in anonymity. That's the true difference between Amherst and either Bowdoin and Middlebury.
    I have to agree with neumyer on this one. I was shocked at the lack of interest on the Amherst campus while I was there for the NESCAC semifinals last year despite the fact the Lord Jeffs had an excellent team and the best goalie in the country.

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    • #17
      Re: Nescac '12-'13

      Originally posted by Crusso View Post
      Meagher [...] he is just a different type of guy that the players never really bond with, he keeps huge rosters and is not a great judge of talent.
      I've been following Terry Meagher's career at Bowdoin for almost thirty years, and I'm always intrigued by the comment that he's not a great judge of talent. It's true that he's not an easy guy to bond with, but in my conversations with him, I've found him to be knowledgeable and disarmingly honest. He certainly puts a good product on the ice year after year. I know that some parents complain that their sons don't play enough (as parents are wont to do), but more often than not, when I've watched these kids finally play, it's been obvious that they are not as good as their parents think they are, and that Terry's line-up decisions were the right ones.

      What impresses me most about Meagher is that kids develop under his tutelage. Think of a raw talent like Mike Westerman, for example, and the improvement he made on the way to becoming an All-American as a senior. Or, more recently, how guys like Tim McGarry or Colin Downey have reached new plateaus. Thus, it doesn't surprise me that he's had twenty-two All-Americans to go with several Rookie-of-the-Year selections (which indicate a good eye for talent) over the past twenty-nine seasons.

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      • #18
        Re: Nescac '12-'13

        Originally posted by Crusso View Post
        You are right about Amherst admissions. Beany and Meagher attract players because of the quality of the respective schools and now they have fantastic rinks. They are also good recruiters. Beany can coach no doubt but ego is too large and he alienates many good kids and is notorious for mind games making it a tough place to play at times. When they were winning all the time it was tolerable lately more issues have come to light. Meagher is not in the same league as Beany as a Coach he also doesn't have the ego issues. he is just a different type of guy that the players never really bond with, he keeps huge rosters and is not a great judge of talent. If you have a kid that can go to any of the three schools go Amherst. That's my opinion. Do your homework and make up your own mind. If Amherst builds a new rink they will be the Nescac school of choice for sure. Parents that do their homework will figure it out.
        I'm wondering just where does one do this homework? At cocktail parties in CT, MA, NJ? I'd assume you'd have to get the skinny from Prep School parents, right?
        Here's my opinion, most college age kids today are spoiled rotten! You see it everywhere. When they have conflicts with anyone, or are disciplined in any way they WHINE to their parents, and of course the parents always come to the rescue and always take the side of their child.
        I realize that it's "old school", but I believe that a successful hockey program requires hard work and discipline. I guess that it's probably just too much to ask of today's youth. I'm sorry, but I can't take much more of this player and parent WHINING!
        from behind the iron curtain...

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        • #19
          Re: Nescac '12-'13

          Originally posted by jimmy d View Post
          I'm wondering just where does one do this homework? At cocktail parties in CT, MA, NJ? I'd assume you'd have to get the skinny from Prep School parents, right?
          Here's my opinion, most college age kids today are spoiled rotten! You see it everywhere. When they have conflicts with anyone, or are disciplined in any way they WHINE to their parents, and of course the parents always come to the rescue and always take the side of their child.
          I realize that it's "old school", but I believe that a successful hockey program requires hard work and discipline. I guess that it's probably just too much to ask of today's youth. I'm sorry, but I can't take much more of this player and parent WHINING!
          As a parent of college-aged children (and a former prep school student) I agree with you almost 100%--I don't think most kids are spoiled rotten, but agree many are. They are in fact, products of obnoxious "helicopter" parents, who believe being involved in every aspect of their kids lives is a good thing. My kids have earned everything on their own merit, not because Mom & Dad got involved. There is a huge difference between guiding a child and trying to control their every move. I suppose these people feel they are helping their kids, but of course it couldn't be further from the truth.

          I also agree discipline is crucial to a successful hockey program.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by dreamer6 View Post
            As a parent of college-aged children (and a former prep school student) I agree with you almost 100%--I don't think most kids are spoiled rotten, but agree many are. They are in fact, products of obnoxious "helicopter" parents, who believe being involved in every aspect of their kids lives is a good thing. My kids have earned everything on their own merit, not because Mom & Dad got involved. There is a huge difference between guiding a child and trying to control their every move. I suppose these people feel they are helping their kids, but of course
            couldn't be further from the truth.

            I also agree discipline is crucial to a successful hockey program.
            Check out nescachockey.wordpress.com Beany would be let go at 99% of public companies with his behavior. Truth sometimes hurts, but times have changed this isn't 1978 anymore. Why should players expect less than good coaches with good values who treat players with respect and know how to build relationships. Any of you ever work for a great boss, would you describe that bosses behavior as similar to Beany's?

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            • #21
              Re: Nescac '12-'13

              As this conversation devolves, it becomes painfully clear that the only real negative to the NESCAC schools starting their season on a reasonable date is that it gives bored hockey fans too much time to whine about which coach is meaner, why it's the parent's fault, etc. ad nausem. Time to drop the puck folks.

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              • #22
                Re: Nescac '12-'13

                "Coach Arena hasn't been winning because he's well liked but because the Amherst admissions office has been more cooperative as of late. "

                I can assure you that while Amherst has shown more support for their hockey program in recent years, that this has more to do with the new athletic director than it does any lowering of standards by the admissions office (by this I mean, the ability to recruit more players but not ones with lower scores). There is also little doubt that they have nowhere near the level of academic flexibility that Bowdoin or Middlebury has; nor should they as Amherst and Williams are much tougher schools to be admitted to relative to the general student body. In short, Amherst and Coach Arena haven't enjoyed success because they've had some advantage over Midd and Bowdoin, but rather because they playing field is starting to be leveled and as a result they've been able to compete with the traditional powerhouses in the NESCAC. Regardless of who you root for there is so much parity in the league now that I think it's going to be a long time before we see another NESCAC team go 20-1 in conference games like Amherst did last year.

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                • #23
                  Re: Nescac '12-'13

                  Originally posted by puxrex View Post
                  As this conversation devolves, it becomes painfully clear that the only real negative to the NESCAC schools starting their season on a reasonable date is that it gives bored hockey fans too much time to whine about which coach is meaner, why it's the parent's fault, etc. ad nausem. Time to drop the puck folks.
                  Amen
                  from behind the iron curtain...

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                  • #24
                    Re: Nescac '12-'13

                    Originally posted by canadianhockeyguy View Post
                    "Coach Arena hasn't been winning because he's well liked but because the Amherst admissions office has been more cooperative as of late. "

                    I can assure you that while Amherst has shown more support for their hockey program in recent years, that this has more to do with the new athletic director than it does any lowering of standards by the admissions office (by this I mean, the ability to recruit more players but not ones with lower scores). There is also little doubt that they have nowhere near the level of academic flexibility that Bowdoin or Middlebury has; nor should they as Amherst and Williams are much tougher schools to be admitted to relative to the general student body. In short, Amherst and Coach Arena haven't enjoyed success because they've had some advantage over Midd and Bowdoin, but rather because they playing field is starting to be leveled and as a result they've been able to compete with the traditional powerhouses in the NESCAC. Regardless of who you root for there is so much parity in the league now that I think it's going to be a long time before we see another NESCAC team go 20-1 in conference games like Amherst did last year.
                    How does the new AD help? They still have to get through admissions. Amherst used to rely more heavily on junior players than did Midd. This year it looks as if most of the Amherst players are Prep products which would might indicate a toughening of standards. Bowdoin depended on juniors more than Midd, too.
                    Middlebury Hockey....The Greatest DIII Show on Skates

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                    • #25
                      Re: Nescac '12-'13

                      Originally posted by neumyer View Post
                      How does the new AD help? They still have to get through admissions. Amherst used to rely more heavily on junior players than did Midd. This year it looks as if most of the Amherst players are Prep products which would might indicate a toughening of standards. Bowdoin depended on juniors more than Midd, too.
                      You can't go by NESCAC rosters as many omit info about junior hockey backgrounds. This year, most of Amherst's first-years are junior jockey veterans -- not so much for Bowdoin this year.

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                      • #26
                        Re: Nescac '12-'13

                        Originally posted by d3follower View Post
                        You can't go by NESCAC rosters as many omit info about junior hockey backgrounds. This year, most of Amherst's first-years are junior jockey veterans -- not so much for Bowdoin this year.
                        So maybe Amherst is softening their standards? I know, for instance on the football boards, Williams fans are complaining that toughened standards for football have reduced the program to a mid NESCAC team as opposed to an annual 8-0 record. Football posters say that admissions will have to lower requirements and more TIPS will have to go to football to get them back to an 8-0, 7-1 program every year. Perhaps Amherst hockey is getting additional TIPS that went to other sports in the past?
                        Middlebury Hockey....The Greatest DIII Show on Skates

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                        • #27
                          Re: Nescac '12-'13

                          I was told by an Amherst admission officer that the past couple of years the hockey program has received more TIPS because other of the school's athletic teams are filling their rosters with more highly qualified student/athletes who are "A" bands. Those teams do not use their allotment of TIPS and the surplus "B" and "C" TIPS are being being picked up by other sports, among them men's hockey.

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                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Doubleminor View Post
                            I was told by an Amherst admission officer that the past couple of years the hockey program has received more TIPS because other of the school's athletic teams are filling their rosters with more highly qualified student/athletes who are "A" bands. Those teams do not use their allotment of TIPS and the surplus "B" and "C" TIPS are being being picked up by other sports, among them men's hockey.
                            Amherst goalie was great tonight. Hamilton looked much better than last year. Want to see Amherst offense break out at home

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                            • #29
                              Re: Nescac '12-'13

                              I attended a spirited game between Williams and Bowdoin in Brunswick last night, a 2-0 Polar Bear win. I expected Bowdoin to be an excellent team, given the quality of the seventeen veteran players who dressed for the game. What I didn't expect was such a solid Williams team. The Ephs obviously don't boast the same level of talent as the Polar Bears, but they played a smart defensive game -- quite physical but without taking unnecessary penalties (unlike the Polar Bears...) -- and got good goaltending from Sean Dougherty.

                              The Polar Bear veterans played like . . . veterans who understand the Bowdoin system inside out. I was particularly impressed by Tim McGarry and Ryan Collier at defense, and Harry Matheson at forward. It goes without saying that Steve Messina was outstanding in net. And, incidentally, the Polar Bears were missing 2011-12 leading scorer Colin Downey.

                              Three first years dressed for the game. Though his shot from the point is above average, Gabe Renaud appears to be primarily a solid defensive defenseman--good skater, strong on his feet and physical. Matt Rubinoff demonstrated an excellent understanding of the game, and played like a veteran at right wing on the top line, with John McGinnis at center and Dan Weiniger at left wing. I was unimpressed by Chris Fenwick. He's a big kid who skates reasonably well, but found himsef on the wrong spot on several occasions, including one in which he collided with a teammate. Maybe it was freshman jitters. I'm curious, however, whether we may see Dylan Shumburger this afternoon against Middlebury.

                              And, of course, Bowdoin-Middlebury at 4:00pm should be a dandy...

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                              • #30
                                Re: Nescac '12-'13

                                Good analysis Euler, Thanks.
                                Formerly known as NUSuntan

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