The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

[Puck Swami]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I’ll bet Swami even bought a copy of the CC documentary released last year. He’ll never admit it but I knows he has a copy.

Hey Swami – a book list would be nice. Can I consider you my personal library or should I buy these *****es?

I don't have the CC video. It was originally envisioned as a documentary about the DU/CC rivalry, but DU wasn't interested in paying development money for it, and so it became a CC-oriented project.

Most of the college hockey books aren't that great. They tend to be vanity projects aimed at the hometown crowd, and often omit or downplay the the difficulties and bad issues that every program faces. The best college hockey book I've read is Emil Salvini's biography of Hobey Baker. And two of the better ones on a program are "Blue Ice" (John Bacon's book about Michigan), and Adam Wodon's book on Cornell hockey, both of which have great pictures,too.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Skating Engineers: Hockey at RPI by Arcadia Publishers

http://www.amazon.com/Skating-Engine...8478044&sr=1-1

[Rhett]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Skating Engineers: Hockey at RPI by Arcadia Publishers

http://www.amazon.com/Skating-Engine...8478044&sr=1-1

I doubt FS23 wants this to become a "book" thread... but I'll just chime in really quickly. The Arcadia books are great for old photos, but don't have any quantitative data and few stories longer than a picture caption blurb. They're very cool, but not very helpful for research or in depth history purposes.

That said, the BU version is by Bernie Corbett (BU radio voice, author of the Beanpot coffee-table book) and is very good. When I lived further north, I used to see the UNH, Maine, and Dartmouth books all the time. I'd guess several other older, successful programs have recieved Arcadia treatments as well.

[FreshFish]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I doubt FS23 wants this to become a "book" thread...

The idea was to develop a metric for greatest 'program' that went beyond the active players; books in print was just a suggestion for the metric and not an end in itself.

The Arcadia books are great for old photos, but don't have any quantitative data and few stories longer than a picture caption blurb. They're very cool, but not very helpful for research or in depth history purposes.

.

If one assumes that Arcadia published these books with the expectation of making a profit, then one might further assume that Arcadia chose programs whose alumni, etc. would have enough 'critical mass' to purchase enough books to make the printing profitable.

Ihat said, the BU version is by Bernie Corbett (BU radio voice, author of the Beanpot coffee-table book) and is very good. When I lived further north, I used to see the UNH, Maine, and Dartmouth books all the time. I'd guess several other older, successful programs have recieved Arcadia treatments as well.

Arcadia is one example of something OTHER THAN 'Omega University Press' which FS23 wanted to discount, and which I agreed.

There are other metrics beyond books; obviously my bias is now exposed since RPI would be the only program of which I am aware whose 'Big Red Freakout!' resulted in a rules change. In 1987, they gave out horns to everyone attending the game, and it caused so much noise that the NCAA implemented a rule change, restricting what kinds of items could be given out. Now that is a fervent fan base and that fervor should be recognized somehow in the metrics for a greatest 'program'.

Also, I attended Harvard and my progeny attends RPI, and any kind of points that RPI could squeeze out would put them at # 15 and Harvard at # 16 (you can tell I do not have fond memories of my Harvard days while my progeny really likes it at RPI).

[jerphisch]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I don't have the CC video. It was originally envisioned as a documentary about the DU/CC rivalry, but DU wasn't interested in paying development money for it, and so it became a CC-oriented project.

It is still about the CC/DU rivalry, it is painfully lacking of any other material. The only time it breaks from the rivalry is a brief bit on CC almost killing the program.

[komey1]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

There are other metrics beyond books; obviously my bias is now exposed since RPI would be the only program of which I am aware whose 'Big Red Freakout!' resulted in a rules change. In 1987, they gave out horns to everyone attending the game, and it caused so much noise that the NCAA implemented a rule change, restricting what kinds of items could be given out. Now that is a fervent fan base and that fervor should be recognized somehow in the metrics for a greatest 'program'.

Bentley and Niagara caused rule changes in the NCAA selection process. If you want to use rule changes, those two should get some credit.

[Priceless]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Bentley and Niagara caused rule changes in the NCAA selection process. If you want to use rule changes, those two should get some credit.

One could look at the changes that were made this year and argue that Vermont should be added to that list.

[ronmexico]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I don't have the CC video. It was originally envisioned as a documentary about the DU/CC rivalry, but DU wasn't interested in paying development money for it, and so it became a CC-oriented project.

I was joking about the CC video. It's a shame that DU didn't participate. The documentary is clearly about the rivalry. Without contributions from DU it seems kind of thrown together. It seemed like they just took the footage they had and produced it after DU wasn't on board. It's not really a CC documentary but more of an unfinished documentary about the CC / DU rivalry.

Gwoz has a short cameo where he talks about the 2005 frozen four. He thinks there would have been more of a climax if they had faced CC in the title game rather than earlier.

As WCHA fans know, 2005 was the all WCHA frozen four. Greatest frozen four of all time? Probably not, but I would read a thread dedicated to the topic.

[UncleRay]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Then there's the DU/Maine skate in the crease.

RPI's "Big Red Freakout" and theme games fall in the same category for me: a good marketing department. Nothing more. Theme games are done to get butts into seats. It could be argued that teams that DON'T do theme games and still get the attendance have the more rabid fans since they don't need some toy-in-the-cereal-box to entice them into going to a game.

While figuring out which fanbase is the most rabid, should chants be included, too? And should there be a difference made between chants only chanted by the student section (since they are expletive-filled filth) and those that include the rest of the fans in the building? Why not include the distances that fans drive to get to a game? Since the fanboys only have to ride a metro a few miles to Conte, they can't possibly be the rabid fans that drive a couple hours from The County to get to Alfond, right?

I suppose there are a million numbers you could find to calculate the "best fan base." But does anyone really want to suggest one with a straight face? You can nitpick the intricacies of the formulas that FS23 and whatshisface used for their compendiums, but can you really argue with their overall validity? No.

Stick to what you've got, FS23. It's good, it's fair, it's (reasonably) easily calculated and verified.

[komey1]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

RPI's "Big Red Freakout" and theme games fall in the same category for me: a good marketing department. Nothing more.

Don't let RPI fans hear that. LOL

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

FreshFish = Arcadia employee.

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

The idea was to develop a metric for greatest 'program' that went beyond the active players; books in print was just a suggestion for the metric and not an end in itself.

.

If one assumes that Arcadia published these books with the expectation of making a profit, then one might further assume that Arcadia chose programs whose alumni, etc. would have enough 'critical mass' to purchase enough books to make the printing profitable.



Arcadia is one example of something OTHER THAN 'Omega University Press' which FS23 wanted to discount, and which I agreed.

There are other metrics beyond books; obviously my bias is now exposed since RPI would be the only program of which I am aware whose 'Big Red Freakout!' resulted in a rules change. In 1987, they gave out horns to everyone attending the game, and it caused so much noise that the NCAA implemented a rule change, restricting what kinds of items could be given out. Now that is a fervent fan base and that fervor should be recognized somehow in the metrics for a greatest 'program'.

Also, I attended Harvard and my progeny attends RPI, and any kind of points that RPI could squeeze out would put them at # 15 and Harvard at # 16 (you can tell I do not have fond memories of my Harvard days while my progeny really likes it at RPI).

RPI has had not one but TWO NCAA rules created because of happenings at Houston Field House. When Ned Harkness's teams had very short benches, the band would "extend" the second intermission by playing the two alma maters right before the puck was dropped. That is why bands are only allowed to play this during an intermission or before/after a game.

Maybe that would move us above Clarkson.

[Fighting Sioux 23]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

#1 Michigan - 475.5292 Points
#2 North Dakota - 414.1636 Points
#3 Minnesota – 397.684 Points
#4 Boston University - 345.005 Points
#5 Wisconsin - 334.9305 Points
#6 Denver - 333.3811 Points
#7 Boston College - 303.0755 Points
#8 Michigan State - 231.4669 Points
#9 Maine - 167.5985 Points
#10 Michigan Tech - 156.0076 Points
#11 Lake Superior State - 153.5872 Points
#12 Cornell - 152.4499 Points
#13 Colorado College - 142.3592
#14 Clarkson - 124.5689 Points
#15 Harvard - 118.8879 Points
#16 Rensselaer - 98.2167 Points
#17 Bowling Green - 79.7674 Points
#18 Northern Michigan - 79.3272 Points
#19 New Hampshire - 77.4096 Points
#20 Minnesota Duluth - 66.5522 Points
#21 St. Lawrence - 64.6435 Points
#22 Providence - 37.9103 Points
#23 Miami - 36.9575 Points
#24 Dartmouth - 35.143 Points
#25 Notre Dame - 33.5788 Points
#26 Yale - 29.1241 Points
#27 Colgate - 27.7915 Points
#28 Northeastern - 24.5696 Points
#29 Brown - 18.3317 Points
#30 Ohio State - 17.0403 Points
#31 Vermont - 15.8285 Points
#32 St. Cloud State - 12.4129 Points
#33 Bemidji State - 11.4454 Points
#34 RIT - 8.1655 Points
#35 Ferris State - 7.8912 Points
#36 UMass Lowell - 7.1081 Points
#37 Niagara - 6.4381 Points
#38 Western Michigan - 5.3974 Points
#39 Princeton - 5.1729 Points
#40 Holy Cross - 4.8647 Points
#41 Alaska-Anchorage - 4.8361 Points
#42 Air Force - 4.1704 Points
#43 Quinnipiac - 3.8994 Points
#44 Mercyhurst - 3.468 Points
#45 Merrimack - 3.1402 Points
#46 Massachusetts - 3.0035 Points
#47 Alaska - 2.9892 Points
#48 Nebraska Omaha - 2.9092 Points
#49 Minnesota State - 2.3131 Points
#50 Alabama Huntsville - 1.9469 Points
#51 Army - 1.3604 Points
#52 Union - 0.6174 Points
#53 UConn - 0.1921 Points
#54 Sacred Heart - 0.1703 Points
#55 Bentley - .0279 Points
#56 Robert Morris - .0245 Points
#57 Canisius - .0205 Points
#58 American International - .0061 Points

UPDATE:
Despite going through the numbers several times before I posted, upon double-checking the numbers to get them ready for the post-season update, I found three errors. I had incorrectly awarded Boston College a Frozen Four victory for their 3rd place finish in 1948. There was no 3rd place game in 1948. I also had incorrectly awarded Maine a 3rd place finish for their 1989 Tournament. Maine finished 4th. Finally, I had incorrectly awarded Colorado College with 3rd place finishes in 1949 and 1951, where they finished 4th. I have made the appropriate changes and double-checked again just to be sure.

What does this mean? Boston College and Maine maintain their positions, but their point totals are a bit lower. CC dropped to 13th position, and Michigan Tech, Lake Superior State and Cornell each jump up a spot. Michigan Tech is, for the time being, in the top 10. The changes are bolded in the list above.

I'll be updating the list after the Frozen Four to include the 2010-2011 season, but wanted to explain the error as soon as I found it and had it corrected and then double-checked to verify.

[komey1]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

Your correction is appreciated.

[Biddco]

Re: The Greatest Programs of All-Time: #1 - #58

I would love to see how much rep you received for doing this