Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

[MaizeRage]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

The biggest problem is potentially that conference affiliation requirement for a team to play up in D-1 once they end the moratorium. Now that we've realigned the conferences with 12 teams each, I don't see them expanding for a very long time.

You'd need at least three Canadian schools that wanted to make the D-1 jump along with the two Alaska schools just to think about starting a conference.

[4four4]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

The biggest problem is potentially that conference affiliation requirement for a team to play up in D-1 once they end the moratorium. Now that we've realigned the conferences with 12 teams each, I don't see them expanding for a very long time.

You'd need at least three Canadian schools that wanted to make the D-1 jump along with the two Alaska schools just to think about starting a conference.

IMO, I just don't see UF and UAA ever leaving an established hockey conference for an up start. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

[CHFAN222]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

If a few of them got together it might cause some American Schools to jump in. MSU-Moorehead, CSU, or maybe some school out in Washington, or Oregon.

[MaizeRage]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

IMO, I just don't see UF and UAA ever leaving an established hockey conference for an up start. They have nothing to gain and everything to lose.

It's all hypothetical, but you never know. They obviously both want to play in the same conference--I'll go out on a limb and say UAA was the one school that didn't vote for UNO in the WCHA because they wanted the option to vote on Alaska too. Neither is a very good fit for the conference they're in. Anchorage has never posted a winning season since joining the WCHA and their attendance has tanked because of it. UA is occasionally decent, but has never made a national tournament. They both have to pay quite a bit in travel costs both for themselves and for the rest of the league to travel up there.

Forming their own league puts them on a little more level footing. Their big problem right now is that they have to recruit almost exclusively out of western Canada, and the USHL, where the rest of their leagues recruit has really surpassed it in terms of depth. If they were in a league that relied on just western Canada for players, they'd be on more level footing.

[bigmrg74]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

I'd be interested in seeing what happened the last time the NCAA instituted the Division II NC in the early 90s and what the driving forces were within the division, be it new programs sprouting up or a push by Division I (and III) to get the "foreigners" out of their division.

I believe the threshhold is now 50 participating programs to including a divisional championship for an existing sport. We are, obviously, nowhere near that, even if you kick all (and I mean all) of the play-up institutions back to their all-sport divisions.

That and I can easily see a whole lotta fan bases that would be as mad as hell about that, and be loaded for bear on that issue. UMD, Mankato, St. Cloud, BSU, UNO, MTU, NMU, LSSU, Ferris, UAH, Lowell, Marrimack, and the Alaskas would be really mad about that. Might not get a whole lotta complain out of D2 programs like Bentley or AIC. And then everybody in the west is looking at forming a new conference, and its going to be very BTCH looking to me.

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

If a few of them got together it might cause some American Schools to jump in. MSU-Moorehead, CSU, or maybe some school out in Washington, or Oregon.

If your waiting on the West Coast, you'll wait forever. There is no grass roots movement for college hockey in Pac 10 country, especially with title IX restrictions. Your far more likely to see the 5 schools without men's soccer add a program and/or lacrosse start ups. Hell, I'd put money on Water Polo coming to the Pac NW before Ice Hockey.

And is there really enough talent in Western Canada that will bypass MJ to preserve eligibility? I assume the NCAA has zero interest in re-evaluating that policy for the benefit of a few CIS schools. Furthermore, I can see CIS taking action against this. "The Yanks are coming!" still works as a form of populism north of the border and you might see some governmental action, especially at the Provincial level.

[bigmrg74]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

If your waiting on the West Coast, you'll wait forever. There is no grass roots movement for college hockey in Pac 10 country, especially with title IX restrictions. Your far more likely to see the 5 schools without men's soccer add a program and/or lacrosse start ups. Hell, I'd put money on Water Polo coming to the Pac NW before Ice Hockey.

And is there really enough talent in Western Canada that will bypass MJ to preserve eligibility? I assume the NCAA has zero interest in re-evaluating that policy for the benefit of a few CIS schools. Furthermore, I can see CIS taking action against this. "The Yanks are coming!" still works as a form of populism north of the border and you might see some governmental action, especially at the Provincial level.

Ummm... technically, those canucks are invading us, not the other way around here.

But yeah, you're probably right about hockey in the pacific north west area. Unless Nike decides that they wanna get back into the Hockey market and make college hockey happen at Oregon as part of its marketing strategy, its probably not happening.

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

Ummm... technically, those canucks are invading us, not the other way around here.

But yeah, you're probably right about hockey in the pacific north west area. Unless Nike decides that they wanna get back into the Hockey market and make college hockey happen at Oregon as part of its marketing strategy, its probably not happening.

Touche sir. Touche.

Yeah I can see "Uncle Phil" being the one possible inroad.
He was apparently the driving force behind the return of UO baseball. Well that and watching Oregon State win back to back College World Series Titles.

[bigmrg74]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

Touche sir. Touche.

Yeah I can see "Uncle Phil" being the one possible inroad.
He was apparently the driving force behind the return of UO baseball. Well that and watching Oregon State win back to back College World Series Titles.

He's got the money to make it happen, and not just make it happen on a shoe string basis either.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

Unless Nike decides that they wanna get back into the Hockey market and make college hockey happen at Oregon as part of its marketing strategy, its probably not happening.

Good Lord. Just imagine the uniforms.

[Squarebanks]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

Touche sir. Touche.

Yeah I can see "Uncle Phil" being the one possible inroad.
He was apparently the driving force behind the return of UO baseball. Well that and watching Oregon State win back to back College World Series Titles.

As a native Oregonian (and an employee of a company that counts Nike as a client), I'd absolutely love to see this happen. Given a chance, I think NCAA hockey could actually do pretty well at any of the four major Northwest schools (UO, OSU, WSU, and UW).

But...

The problem is that hockey has no natural roots in Oregon or Washington. About 10-15 years ago there was a push to put an NHL team in Portland, but beyond that there's a few WHL teams and not much else. NHL coverage is relegated to a small corner in back of the sports page,and NCAA hockey is completely off the radar. If Fox NW or Comcast would pick up a few NCAA games over the course of the season, say some games from the big-name schools and maybe the Governor's Cup in Alaska, that could help plant the seeds, but I wouldn't bet the farm on it. Another problem would be recruiting, as home-grown talent would be pretty slim to almost none. They would be raiding western Canada for players, much like the Alaska schools currently do. In all the years I've followed Nanook hockey, I can only recall one recruit from the Pacific Northwest (Keith Bartusch, from somewhere in Washington).

There's also the issue of what conference a school such as Oregon would be in. I don't see Phil Knight ponying up the dough to start hockey at UO without a tie-in to an established conference, and even then there wouldn't be any natural rivals.

Anyway...don't get me wrong, I'd love to see it happen, but I'm also trying to be a realist about it.

[Happy]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

I sure hope so, it would be pretty dang asinine for the NCAA to not allow D2 schools to have D1 Hockey if they chose to have the sport.

There is a lot of bitter NCAA politics involved with this battle, and I can tell you being called asinine is not one of the ncaa's concerns.

[FreddyFoyle]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

I've posted on this topic in the past, so in summary:

- You will probably NOT see any more CIS schools apply to the NCAA, other than perhaps UBC and Windsor -- neither whom is a hockey power in the CIS. UBC is a big school with big ideas, but as a provincially ("state") supported university I can's see taxpayers keen on covering all of those American roadtrips ...
- SFU never really wanted to be in the CIS ... their old US conference (NAIA?) died and CIS was a temporary home. They don't have a varsity hockey team.
- The hockey powers in the CIS (UNB, Alberta, SMU, Saskatchewan, Moncton, UQTR, Acadia, etc.) rely heavily on recruiting CHL players and benefit from their partnership with the CHL -- Major Junior players "earn" education packages while they play which are in turn translated into scholarships to CIS schools. Because many of these players bring with them close to a "full ride" the direct scholarships costs for CIS schools are low by NCAA standards. Why break what isn't broken?

[BoomGoestheDynamite]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

I've posted on this topic in the past, so in summary:

- You will probably NOT see any more CIS schools apply to the NCAA, other than perhaps UBC and Windsor -- neither whom is a hockey power in the CIS. UBC is a big school with big ideas, but as a provincially ("state") supported university I can's see taxpayers keen on covering all of those American roadtrips ...
- SFU never really wanted to be in the CIS ... their old US conference (NAIA?) died and CIS was a temporary home. They don't have a varsity hockey team.
- The hockey powers in the CIS (UNB, Alberta, SMU, Saskatchewan, Moncton, UQTR, Acadia, etc.) rely heavily on recruiting CHL players and benefit from their partnership with the CHL -- Major Junior players "earn" education packages while they play which are in turn translated into scholarships to CIS schools. Because many of these players bring with them close to a "full ride" the direct scholarships costs for CIS schools are low by NCAA standards. Why break what isn't broken?

Good info thanks. Doesn't seem like theres really a way forward and big time College sports never seemed very "Canadian" anyway, certainly not on the level were used to in the States.

Canadian colleges to the NCAA has become the hoped for deus ex machina for D-I hockey in the past few years it seems (well that and Penn State, Navy, Iowa, and the 'Cuse)

[bigmrg74]

Re: Canadian College into NCAA Div 2

I've posted on this topic in the past, so in summary:

- You will probably NOT see any more CIS schools apply to the NCAA, other than perhaps UBC and Windsor -- neither whom is a hockey power in the CIS. UBC is a big school with big ideas, but as a provincially ("state") supported university I can's see taxpayers keen on covering all of those American roadtrips ...
- SFU never really wanted to be in the CIS ... their old US conference (NAIA?) died and CIS was a temporary home. They don't have a varsity hockey team.
- The hockey powers in the CIS (UNB, Alberta, SMU, Saskatchewan, Moncton, UQTR, Acadia, etc.) rely heavily on recruiting CHL players and benefit from their partnership with the CHL -- Major Junior players "earn" education packages while they play which are in turn translated into scholarships to CIS schools. Because many of these players bring with them close to a "full ride" the direct scholarships costs for CIS schools are low by NCAA standards. Why break what isn't broken?

Yeah, I have heard some rumors about Windsor sending out feelers to the GLIAC about joining up. I would love to see them come in, they would be a great school to add, and would give Wayne State an automatic new rivalry thats just across the border.