Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

[Alton]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Why couldn't the WCHA set up a system to fine schools that violate the "B1G blackball?" Schedule games with the B1G schools and you forfeit your conference tourney share. If the conference tourney share drops dramatically, peg a figure on the fine (maybe based on home attendance) for each school. If it's agreed upon (which an agreement to "boycott" B1G road games would be anyway), why couldn't it work?

edit - In fact, I'd argue that really is the only way to enforce some sort of official "boycott." Otherwise, you could vote on it, and one school screws it up by scheduling a series... Then everyone has to follow.

I am not a lawyer, but I would suspect that you are getting pretty close to a violation of antitrust laws if you try this. The WCHA is set up as a scheduling agreement--the teams in the league agree to play 28 games against each other, at times and places dictated by the conference office, under rules set by the members. The other 6-8 games that a team is permitted to play are not in any way under the purview of the conference office, and belong to the schools themselves. If Michigan Tech wants to play a couple of games at Penn State, the conference doesn't have any power to stop them or fine them, because Michigan Tech never agreed to give the conference office that power in the first place.

If all 10 WCHA teams agree to not schedule the Big Ten teams, that's one thing, and there is no problem with that. What would be a problem would be 9 WCHA teams trying to enforce this rule against a 10th team.

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

I am not a lawyer, but I would suspect that you are getting pretty close to a violation of antitrust laws if you try this. The WCHA is set up as a scheduling agreement--the teams in the league agree to play 28 games against each other, at times and places dictated by the conference office, under rules set by the members. The other 6-8 games that a team is permitted to play are not in any way under the purview of the conference office, and belong to the schools themselves. If Michigan Tech wants to play a couple of games at Penn State, the conference doesn't have any power to stop them or fine them, because Michigan Tech never agreed to give the conference office that power in the first place.

If all 10 WCHA teams agree to not schedule the Big Ten teams, that's one thing, and there is no problem with that. What would be a problem would be 9 WCHA teams trying to enforce this rule against a 10th team.

This would be true if the B1G and WCHA were the only two conferences. There's dozens of other teams to play, and each one of them is a massive *yawn* compared to the WCHA rivalries.

Now, if this were the NCAA saying B1G and WCHA can't play each other, then maybe you'd have a point.

[Wol4ine]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

How many schools folded their hockey programs after the big state schools left the ECAC to form the HEA? Were they (current ECAC schools) any better off financially than the directional Michigan schools or the regional Minnesota schools are now? I think the talk of the death of college hockey is premature.

Isn't it possible that tBTN airs some of those NC games? The only people that get to see UMTC vs UND are those with FSNorth or FSSN. I'd watch a Wisc vs Denver game. The only way I, or many others, could watch those games would be if they were on tBTN. Wouldn't UMD or SCSU benefit if they were on tBTN? I know most of the FSD games here in MIchigan (and there weren't many) either had UM or MSU anyway. So wouldn't it be better for NMU to be seen on tBTN, that goes out nationally, once every couple of years rather than on FSD which is only seen here in Michigan?

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Or maybe the state of Ohio doesn't support the game of ice hockey. Football or bust.

Basketball's big here right now. . But seriously you are correct, the school has not supported hockey. They would not put up with a football coach for 13 years with a track record like our previous hockey coach. They also kick the hockey team out of the arena at conference playoff time to host the state high school wrestling tournament. There has been rumor of a hockey only arena but facts are elusive. The only thing they've done to try and improve the sport was to hire Osiecki. Here's a link to Ohio State's website on what their official word is on Big Ten hockey. http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/Vie...B_OEM_ID=17300
I wonder if Osiecki actually believes what he's saying or if he's reading from the school's script?

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Basketball's big here right now. . But seriously you are correct, the school has not supported hockey. They would not put up with a football coach for 13 years with a track record like our previous hockey coach. They also kick the hockey team out of the arena at conference playoff time to host the state high school wrestling tournament. There has been rumor of a hockey only arena but facts are elusive. The only thing they've done to try and improve the sport was to hire Osiecki. Here's a link to Ohio State's website on what their official word is on Big Ten hockey. http://www.ohiostatebuckeyes.com/Vie...B_OEM_ID=17300

Would they put up with 3 years of your hockey performance in football?

I'd seriously doubt even sweatervest could survive that. Two years and I have a feeling he'd be on thin ice.

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Would they put up with 3 years of your hockey performance in football?

I'd seriously doubt even sweatervest could survive that. Two years and I have a feeling he'd be on thin ice.

No doubt!

[Alton]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

This would be true if the B1G and WCHA were the only two conferences. There's dozens of other teams to play, and each one of them is a massive *yawn* compared to the WCHA rivalries.

Now, if this were the NCAA saying B1G and WCHA can't play each other, then maybe you'd have a point.

But there's no difference between the NCAA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State and the WCHA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State. The organizations are the same--the NCAA and the WCHA are both associations of universities that Michigan Tech joined in order to receive the benefits of being a member, and joined under the understanding that the NCAA and the WCHA had rules and also limitations to the scope those rules. The WCHA has never claimed control over who its members play in their non-conference games, and neither has the NCAA. If a majority of members of either organization attempted to strong-arm a minority into not scheduling certain teams, it seems to me that they would have an argument that they are being subjected to an illegal restraint of trade. I don't think it would matter that there are other teams to play.

[4four4]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

Exactly why teams like SCSU don't need agree to play at minnesota and not get home games back. Once Minnesota leaves the WCHA if the other schools can't make a buck off of them why play them?

Because they are the University of Minnesota. :P

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

But there's no difference between the NCAA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State and the WCHA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State. The organizations are the same--the NCAA and the WCHA are both associations of universities that Michigan Tech joined in order to receive the benefits of being a member, and joined under the understanding that the NCAA and the WCHA had rules and also limitations to the scope those rules. The WCHA has never claimed control over who its members play in their non-conference games, and neither has the NCAA. If a majority of members of either organization attempted to strong-arm a minority into not scheduling certain teams, it seems to me that they would have an argument that they are being subjected to an illegal restraint of trade. I don't think it would matter that there are other teams to play.

Except the schools voluntarily choose to become a member of a conference. They can, contracts notwithstanding, leave a conference if they don't like the rules. **** you Barry Alvarez. **** you.

[scsutommyboy]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

OK, do it.

It would be tougher for Minnesota to give up the current WCHA schools because of the in-state pressure which can be brought to bear to try to get them to play SCSU, UMD, BSU and MSU-M. As for Wisconsin, I think the hockey fans would miss NoDak, UMD and others but there aren't going to be legislators from those other towns making noise about 'forcing' them to play each other.

So, then, Wisconsin loses those 10 possible opponents. That leaves 40 other teams and UW has to find 7 of them. A few - Boston College, Boston Univ., maybe Notre Dame and Miami - could demand home/home series. I still think that UW could get 7 of Lake Superior, Western, Huntsville, Ferris, any ECAC school, any Atlantic Hockey team and half of Hockey East to come to Madison.

They would be counting on two things to get into the NCAA:
A) winning a six team conference (not 12) for an autobid
B) collective strength of schedule

A could be easier than it is now. B might be tougher. Between the two, I'm guessing UW probably likes it chances.

Again, I'm not saying I like the idea. But WCHA unity isn't guaranteed - nor is ruling out UW wanting to continue its relationships. I'm just suggesting UW seeking 14 home games isn't far fetched.

What strength of schedule? If they are playing a cupcake schedule their pairwise is goingto suffer. Then figure playing four games against PSU and it gets even worse......

[Bakunin]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

edit - And before anyone says "fine, Minn will just schedule eastern or AHA schools," think about how many Gopher fans don't like this as it is, and think about that B1G schedule with no SCSU, UMD, UND or the like (or zero road games within reasonable driving distance) anywhere on it...

The U can justify raising season ticket prices with more home games. Even if the non conference schedule is horse****, they'll still manage a 90%+ renewal rate on season tickets, whether or not the fans b*tch and moan about it.

For those of you talking about how the pairwise would be negatively impacted by a weak schedule, I will counter with Ylae. They played a weak schedule and won the vast majority of their games. That was sufficient to put them atop the pairwise. The only issue with an easy schedule is there's a smaller margin for error.

[4four4]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

What strength of schedule? If they are playing a cupcake schedule their pairwise is goingto suffer. Then figure playing four games against PSU and it gets even worse......

If we have a pairwise in three years.

Prediction: The pairwise either changes or they use nothing.

[Hockeybuckeye]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

But there's no difference between the NCAA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State and the WCHA telling Michigan Tech that it can't play at Penn State. The organizations are the same--the NCAA and the WCHA are both associations of universities that Michigan Tech joined in order to receive the benefits of being a member, and joined under the understanding that the NCAA and the WCHA had rules and also limitations to the scope those rules. The WCHA has never claimed control over who its members play in their non-conference games, and neither has the NCAA. If a majority of members of either organization attempted to strong-arm a minority into not scheduling certain teams, it seems to me that they would have an argument that they are being subjected to an illegal restraint of trade. I don't think it would matter that there are other teams to play.

The conferences all come under the banner of Big Brother NCAA. I don't think colleges have the kaunas these days to outright challenge the NCAA. Why do you think some schools curled up into the fetal postion when they were ordered to remove their Indian names and mascots if they didn't meet specific criteria to the outrage of their alumni?

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

The U can justify raising season ticket prices with more home games. Even if the non conference schedule is horse****, they'll still manage a 90%+ renewal rate on season tickets, whether or not the fans b*tch and moan about it.

I assume you mean charge more for the season and not per single game ticket right?

[kire_mailliw]

Re: Big Ten Hockey Conference Pt II - The Exodus

being a goofer fan and living in iowa city (ya, its unbearable) the only way I think this is a good thing is if it expands dI hockey here--(be nice to see Indiana and Illinois get dI as well)

I do know many people that are not hockey fans --which have caught a BTN hockey game on, and have mentioned to me that iowa needs a team --the problem of course is the facility

Cedar Rapids (25 min away) has a 4000 seat arena--anyone know if that might be large enough for a dI school? The Rough Riders (a junior team) who play there, actually draw sellout crowds often....