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  • CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

    I admit to being somewhat a fan of the shootout, but it seems this league's beginning to box itself in. Creepy.

    http://www.collegehockeynews.com/new.../28_cchato.php

  • #2
    Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

    Originally posted by owslachief View Post
    I admit to being somewhat a fan of the shootout, but it seems this league's beginning to box itself in. Creepy.

    http://www.collegehockeynews.com/new.../28_cchato.php
    Anastos started the slippery slope with the shootout. I was an opponent from the beginning and I still am. At least he took some action with the feedback fans and team officials offered on how to level the points system, since , in affect, it could pervert the league standings if it wasn't adjusted.

    I still say the best way to entertain the fans is with better competition within the league. Not much he can do about that, I guess. He can aim to improve the officiating, though.

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    • #3
      Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

      Originally posted by owslachief View Post
      I admit to being somewhat a fan of the shootout, but it seems this league's beginning to box itself in. Creepy.

      http://www.collegehockeynews.com/new.../28_cchato.php
      I don't see how the league is "boxing itself in". If any of these decisions proved to be universally unpopular or viewed as failures, they could always be reversed in subsequent seasons. Also, the three point thing is not a new idea. It is used in USA Hockey's national championships, and I believe, in some international tournaments as well.

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      • #4
        Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

        Originally posted by streaker View Post
        At least he took some action with the feedback fans and team officials offered on how to level the points system, since , in affect, it could pervert the league standings if it wasn't adjusted.
        And that's why I was careful to use the word "somewhat". It proved to be great entertainment (at least in a barn where the home team rarely enjoyed success), and the team that came out on the short end didn't - directly - get penalized.

        Downside is you can end up with that isolated situation last season in which one 7th-place school ended up a point ahead - with one fewer win - than the 8th place school.

        And I think you take away something from the "purity" (if I can get away with that) of college hockey.

        So the three-point treatment is a way to fix the first problem. Therefore when I say 'Boxing itself in', I'm saying if you're going to do away with this new wrinkle, you need to scrap the whole shootout idea.
        Last edited by owslachief; 09-28-2009, 12:40 PM.

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        • #5
          Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

          And you know as well as I do that they're not going away from the shootout anytime soon.

          If you're going to have shootouts, this is way to do it, I suppose.
          FERRIS STATE UNIVERSITY: 2012 FROZEN FOUR


          God, that was fun...

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          • #6
            Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

            Originally posted by Hammer View Post
            And you know as well as I do that they're not going away from the shootout anytime soon.

            If you're going to have shootouts, this is way to do it, I suppose.
            Yup. I can envision only one scenario where I will find the shootout to be palatable, that of an in-season tournament, but in all other phases of our game, no way. But if you're going to do it, this is a better way, IMHO. I stated as much repeatedly last season as we watched it unfold. I wonder which coaches led the charge to make the change. I cannot recall one CCHA head coach who was enthusiastic about the shootout last season.

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            • #7
              Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

              I like the three point system that is used in for professional soccer of; 3 points for a win and 1 point for a tie. I don't think 2 ties should equal a win in the standings.
              Originally posted by Mankato student
              Are their innings or quarters in this sport?
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              • #8
                Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

                I'm glad the CCHA realized that shootout wins should not be worth as much as winning the game in regulation or overtime. But if I were the boss, I'd make the shootout worth even less and adopt the old HEA scoring system of 5-3-2-0.
                Notre Dame Hockey
                Reigning Big Ten Champions
                Reigning CCHA Champions
                Hockey East Lineal Champions

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                • #9
                  Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

                  It's interesting to note that had they used this system last season, Michigan would've had seven points on Miami. Conspiracy theorists (with whom I am frequently aligned) can claim this is another way to benefit the haves (Michigan), while others can (justifiably) claim that Michigan (who never even had an OT game last season) just worked their arses off to win in regulation. Not sure which side I'm on in this debate...

                  I do know one thing, though. I still loathe the SO.
                  "Hockey is the only tribe I belong to." --Jack Falla

                  "Why, as a matter of fact, I suggested starting a hockey program to Father Callahan, our president. He was downright interested until we came to the use of sticks, and then he threw up his hands. He said, 'No, that game is not for our University. Notre Dame will never endorse any game that puts a club in the hands of an Irishman.' " -- Knute Rockne: All American

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                  • #10
                    Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

                    Originally posted by ND Hockey View Post
                    But if I were the boss, I'd make the shootout worth even less and adopt the old HEA scoring system of 5-3-2-0.
                    I don't remember where I saw the idea posted, but I like the following... if we MUST include the gimmick, er, shootout in games.

                    5 - regulation win
                    4 - OT win
                    3 - gimmick win
                    2 - gimmick loss
                    1 - OT loss
                    0 - regulation loss

                    I like it since every game is worth the same number of points, 5, and an OT win isn't worth quite as much as a regulation win, and any game that goes to the gimmick is as close to a tie as you can get without awarding half points.
                    Bronco Hockey Blog

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                    • #11
                      Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

                      Originally posted by moe24 View Post
                      I don't remember where I saw the idea posted, but I like the following... if we MUST include the gimmick, er, shootout in games.

                      5 - regulation win
                      4 - OT win
                      3 - gimmick win
                      2 - gimmick loss
                      1 - OT loss
                      0 - regulation loss

                      I like it since every game is worth the same number of points, 5, and an OT win isn't worth quite as much as a regulation win, and any game that goes to the gimmick is as close to a tie as you can get without awarding half points.
                      I was just going to post this idea myself. I've thought that the NHL and any league using shootouts should go to this format for quite some time. Also, rep for the "gimmick win" and "gimmick loss"
                      Gopher Hockey: Minnesota's Pride on Ice

                      National Champions: 1974, 1976, 1979, 2002, 2003


                      My Gopher Hockey Blog: http://prideoniceblog.blogspot.com

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                      • #12
                        Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

                        Originally posted by Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres. View Post
                        It's interesting to note that had they used this system last season, Michigan would've had seven points on Miami.
                        ???

                        Michigan would have had 3 points on Miami.

                        Notre Dame 69, Michigan 60, Miami 57, Alaska 47;
                        Ohio State 46, Northern Michigan 41, Western Michigan 35, Ferris State 34;
                        Nebraska-Omaha 34, Lake Superior State 28, Michigan State 28, Bowling Green 25.

                        Originally posted by Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres. View Post
                        Conspiracy theorists (with whom I am frequently aligned) can claim this is another way to benefit the haves
                        How? It probably benefits the better team, which is good.

                        I assume that you agree that standings should be calculated so that teams are ahead of all of the teams they are better than, and behind all of the teams they are worse than. Of course it is impossible to guarantee this result, but the change clearly makes it more likely, and that is a very good thing.

                        "The game of hockey, though much in vogue on the ice in New England and other parts of the United States, is not much known here."

                        --The Montreal Gazette, March 4, 1875.

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                        • #13
                          Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

                          Originally posted by PGB View Post
                          I don't see how the league is "boxing itself in". If any of these decisions proved to be universally unpopular or viewed as failures, they could always be reversed in subsequent seasons. Also, the three point thing is not a new idea. It is used in USA Hockey's national championships, and I believe, in some international tournaments as well.
                          it means they'll try other ways to prove the shootout is a good idea even if its not. They're boxing themselves in to defend it at all costs.
                          BS UML '04, PhD UConn '09

                          Jerseys I would like to have:
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                          AIC Yellowjacket Jersey w/ Yellowjacket logo on front
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                          NCAA Men's Division 1 Simulation Primer

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                          • #14
                            Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

                            Originally posted by Alton
                            ???
                            I'm quoting the USCHO article, so the ??? should be directed at the writer.

                            Originally posted by Alton
                            How? It probably benefits the better team, which is good.
                            Obviously you agree the better teams are sometimes "helped" along the way (think back to when the CCHA game of the week always featured either MSU or Michigan). Don't you think that is unfair?

                            Originally posted by Alton
                            I assume that you agree that standings should be calculated so that teams are ahead of all of the teams they are better than, and behind all of the teams they are worse than. Of course it is impossible to guarantee this result, but the change clearly makes it more likely, and that is a very good thing.
                            Not understanding this... What if I told you I thought Miami was better than ND last season? Yet the standings clearly showed otherwise? Teams should get points for wins or ties, whether or not they are the "better" team or not. I can guarantee Michigan is better than BG on paper, but what if by some fluke, BG won more games than Michigan? What you're espousing is that Michigan should be helped because, on paper, they blow most teams out of the water.
                            "Hockey is the only tribe I belong to." --Jack Falla

                            "Why, as a matter of fact, I suggested starting a hockey program to Father Callahan, our president. He was downright interested until we came to the use of sticks, and then he threw up his hands. He said, 'No, that game is not for our University. Notre Dame will never endorse any game that puts a club in the hands of an Irishman.' " -- Knute Rockne: All American

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                            • #15
                              Re: CCHA gives out 3 points for non-shootout win

                              Originally posted by Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres. View Post
                              Obviously you agree the better teams are sometimes "helped" along the way (think back to when the CCHA game of the week always featured either MSU or Michigan). Don't you think that is unfair?
                              If you were a college football fan, which would you rather have seen on ABC on September 12: Michigan-Notre Dame or Indiana-Western Michigan? I don't think it is "unfair" that Southern Cal gets more TV games than Middle Tennessee State in football; it is the way of the world. It certainly doesn't win games for Southern Cal. This is pretty far afield from our discussion, though.


                              Originally posted by Jeff_Jackson_for_Pres. View Post
                              Not understanding this... What if I told you I thought Miami was better than ND last season? Yet the standings clearly showed otherwise? Teams should get points for wins or ties, whether or not they are the "better" team or not. I can guarantee Michigan is better than BG on paper, but what if by some fluke, BG won more games than Michigan? What you're espousing is that Michigan should be helped because, on paper, they blow most teams out of the water.
                              Sorry; we must be talking past each other. I will try again. This has to do with awarding points based on (1) 60-65 minutes of hockey, or (2) a coin flip.

                              The better team wins a hockey game about 70 percent of the time. The better team wins a shootout essentially 50 percent of the time. You might as well flip a coin to award the points. If the league wants to have the shootout, fine, but let's not pretend that the shootout helps determine the better team. The less influence the shootout has on the standings the better, and the more influence the actual game has on the standings the better. This change reduces the influence of the shootout and increases the influence of the game, and helps to make the standings more closely based on the quality of the teams in the league.

                              "The game of hockey, though much in vogue on the ice in New England and other parts of the United States, is not much known here."

                              --The Montreal Gazette, March 4, 1875.

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