UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

[SiouxAviator]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

I did not quite understand kicking him out of school.

Did they kick him out of school, or did he choose to take the hiatus, to get his personal business in order?

[Stromer]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

Did they kick him out of school, or did he choose to take the hiatus, to get his personal business in order?

He choose to leave school and went back home. Pretty good decision, IMO. I don't think sticking around GF for a semester would have did him much good.

[Busua]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

He choose to leave school and went back home. Pretty good decision, IMO. I don't think sticking around GF for a semester would have did him much good.

Thanks for correcting me on that point. I hope he made good use of the time...

[Koho]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

As for Swami's zero-tolerance view, I think it is too purist and would reply that redemption is a fine virtue too. It is particularly appropriate when dealing with the 18-25 year old set. A lot of growing up occurs during those years... well, usually. I have no problem with the program giving Frattin a second chance provided it is given with the expectation that he will work his butt off to deserve it. Plus, it is great that DU's players have not put their program in the same situation -- kudos to the players -- but I would hope DU would do what UND has done with Frattin (except stick with a full year) if/when put into the same situation.

Go Sioux!

It is always hard to know what is appropriate without all the details. On one hand, you've got the 'young guy deserves another chance argument' versus the fact that too many second choices sets up a precedence for allowing negative behavior from other and future students. My H.S. Alma Mata last year had 4 of their top players kicked off late in the season, with the rumor being an underage drinking issue (one-time offense - all rumored, nothing to verify this). They lost a ton of talent. But several parents (rumor of 30+) of hockey players inquired about sending their kids there next year because of the reputation for discipline (although I don't think any actually switched due to the fact they'd lose eligibility for a year and would have stiff competition for playing time). And it seems like if you look at programs in sports like basketball, there are certain ones that allow players to get away with more, and those schools seem to continue to have problems on a regular basis with players. That is where a zero tolerance, or one mistake only rule seems to make sense.

[Puck Swami]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

This stuff isn't static you never know what is going to happen and some day it might be a DU player that has some of the same issues and I am sure you will see a Bad Boyz article some where (oh there will be one trust me). I know we all got a big yuck, yuck out of the Blarney's incident down in Minnesota. The thing is that DU has been lucky to date. As far as Brock Trotter no one ever talked about what it was. So how do we know it's not some law violation?

Had it been a police-related or legal incident with Trotter, it would have likely been reported in the local papers. While we never found out exactly what Trotter did, it was egregious enough to get an indefinite school-imposed suspension, which usually means either academic or conduct-related, and he signed with Montreal rather than taking whatever long term punishment may have resulted from it. The net-net of it was that he never wore his DU uniform again. It's highly likely, (in my opinion), that the school encouraged him to sign with Montreal becuase they knew whatever he did might have meant a permanent expulsion and would have meant more embarrassment for both the player and the school. By having him go ahead and sign, the school and player never had to address the suspension issue in public, but everyone knows he left under a cloud.

That said, I do not think that all hockey players are the same. I think there is a direct correlation between a program's recruiting philosophy and the number of public "incidents" that players and school's endure. Denver may very well have a public incident one day, but the fact they haven't had one in many years is, I believe, as much a reflection of recruiting philosophy as it is luck or hiding of incidents. When you talk with the DU coaches, they will tell you that they pass on recruiting some very good hockey players all the time if they don't meet certain character requirements. That screens out some of the rif-raf, but I also think there is a serious academic culture on the team now that wasn't there 20 or 30 years ago. The fact that Denver led the WCHA with a league record 18 players on the WCHA all-academic team this year tells you that DU is really going after kids that get it done on the ice and in the classroom. That's not to say they are all choirboys, but most of them clearly understand why they are at school and they understand the value of a $50,000 per year scholarship, and what it means to fulfill their team obligations as well as enjoying the benefits of playing for a premier hockey program.

In short, it's about signing the right players and creating a culture rewards and punishes the right things. That's not to say that DU won't have an indicident someday, but the odds of that happening have been reduced over the last 20 years because the school and the coaches are being proactive on the front end in terms of recruiting, culture setting and being unafraid to punish when players do transgress.

[brianvf]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

That said, I do not think that all hockey players are the same. I think there is a direct correlation between a program's recruiting philosophy and the number of public "incidents" that players and school's endure.

DU recruits the halos and UND only recruits the scoUNDrels, correct?

IMO part of the issue lies in the location/coverage of these two schools (if we are just comparing UND and DU). The vast majority of UND's issues with the law have involved alcohol. I think you'd be hard-pressed to find a collegiate hockey player (at any school) that doesn't drink and/or party. At UND, the hockey team and the players are almost local celebrities. Combine that with there not being a whole lot of things to do in GF, and it is noticed if they show up at a bar underage. Plus, the local media is quick to jump on any issue if it involves a UND hockey player. Heck, last year there was an article in the Herald about Brett Hextall getting in a car accident...in which the other driver just ran into him, he was at no fault. Compare that to Denver, where the DU hockey team barely gets mentioned in the local media, regardless of how good they are doing that year. It's got to be a lot easier to sweep issues under the rug if no one in the media would bother reporting it anyway.

I'm not trying to make excuses for UND's past behavior. It is embarrassing as an UND fan/alum when issues with the law continue to happen with the hockey team. The DUI issues are particularly troubling...I don't put much into the elevator, etc issues.

That said, in a town with not much to do (especially in the dead cold of winter), what else are these kids going to do but drink and throw lawn mowers on the street?

When you combine boredom + alcohol + a local media looking for issues, it's no surprise to me that UND runs into problems. I just wish those problems would be limited to normal college "problems"...loud party, etc and not the DUI's.

[lord k]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

The players are college kids after all. They drink, party, go to bars when they are underage, **** in elevators, get in streetfights, raise holy hell.

Kicking a player off the team for a whole year to me was a bit much. Half a year is fine. If he wouldnt have been involved with the lawnmower thing he probably would have only had to sit out the manitoba game.

Personally I can't stand it when stuff hits the papers about college kids behaving badly. They are young men learning about life.

Leave them alone. The coaches will take care of it.

[Wreckincrew]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

while I know UND's history of players with arrests and brushes with the law, I'm guessing there was a lot of behind-the-scene stuff that was happening here. Maybe the coaches had him doing some additional community service or youth programs or (wait for it) lawnmowing! Point is, Frattin might have shown the coaching staff something that made them feel he deserved reinstatement.

I say he should be on super-probation but otherwise, I'm happy to have him back.

Is super-probation better or worse then double-secret probation?

[Happy]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

Sweet, UND gets back a player who has a court date already set up. Another season we don't have to listen to any UND fans talking about ethics, morals, or class, since they have more jailbirds on their team than anyone else. Like always.

[brianvf]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

Sweet, UND gets back a player who has a court date already set up. Another season we don't have to listen to any UND fans talking about ethics, morals, or class, since they have more jailbirds on their team than anyone else. Like always.

Poor happy. So concerned about UND, when he should be worried about UMN winning a game in the Cupcake Classic this weekend...or missing the NCAA tourney again when they are hosting a regional.

[TCHB]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

Regardless of anything else, props to Frattin for sticking it out and working hard to come back versus taking the easy way out and bolting.

[omahasioux1]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

Sweet, UND gets back a player who has a court date already set up. Another season we don't have to listen to any UND fans talking about ethics, morals, or class, since they have more jailbirds on their team than anyone else. Like always.

Welcome back into the thread troll.

[Dirty]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

Sweet, UND gets back a player who has a court date already set up. Another season we don't have to listen to any UND fans talking about ethics, morals, or class, since they have more jailbirds on their team than anyone else. Like always.

Does your mom ever regret not having an abortion?

[Happy]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

Does your mom ever regret not having an abortion?

Does your Mom regret you idolize a team filled with thugs and criminals?

[Dirty]

Re: UND 2009-2010 Season Thread - The Lawnmower and Cookie tossing edition!

Does your Mom regret you idolize a team filled with thugs and criminals?

I'm not answering your question until you answer mine. It's only fair.