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  • #91
    Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

    One comment/question about the title of this thread: For the old-timers around here, do people really think that the overall Frozen Four experience was worse this year than in Cincinnati in 1996? From my point of view (and as stated by many others on the board over the past few weeks), the overall experience comes down to three things: the fan experience outside of the games, the facility itself, and the games. Looking at each individually:

    - Fan experience: IMHO, there is no question that Detroit was far ahead of Cinci in this regard. My most memorable non-game experience in Cinci was hundreds of people storming a grossly understaffed Skyline Chili between semifinal games, because there was just about nothing else around the arena. The event was a non-event in the city, and virtually no preparations were made to make people feel welcome. The comments on this thread and others about Detroit, on the other hand, are very positive, with plenty to do around the venue, a host organization that made a real effort to welcome people, etc.
    - The facility: Cinci wins, but by a much closer margin than you would expect. Other than the fact that the arena was a basketball/hockey facility, it had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. The food was awful, the seats were ripped, a Zamboni broke down before the first game even began, and, if I recall correctly, the facility staff had a touch of a problem with the ice . Ford Field was the opposite--the "smaller" things were very good. It was the "big" ones that were the problem
    - The games themselves: In terms of excitment, of course Cinci wins. Of course, this isn't really something you can credit or blame the host committee for.

    Any thoughts?
    Last edited by Clifton; 04-14-2010, 09:20 AM.
    Originally posted by Wreckincrew: "I nominate Clifton for a position on the NCAA Frozen Four host selection plan"

    Comment


    • #92
      Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

      The thing about Cincy was that in 1996, that arena did not have a full time hockey tenant (they got an ECHL team starting in 1997). That was the last time the FF has been in an arena without a full time hockey tenant (AHL, NHL, etc) until Ford Field.
      "...the great state University of Wisconsin should ever encourage that continual and fearless sifting and winnowing by which alone the truth can be found."

      Wisconsin '05 Michigan '07

      http://noalibisnoregrets.blogspot.com/

      my other blog

      Comment


      • #93
        Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

        This was my 5th F4 in the last 6 years. By far the worst and mainly because the ice conditions were beyond aweful. There were far to many times where Wisco dumped the puck just to make a full change where RIT struggled to get to the blueline on what should have been a free out. RIT didn't beat DU and UNH to get to the F4 by being god aweful and fumble the puck behind their own goal with NO pressure on them. Hell Wisco has a blueline full of 1st and 2nd round draft picks that are coming to an NHL arena near you soon, and on the PP they struggled to complete a D to D pass without it wobbling, jumping over a stick, or rolling up on end. When EVERY stoggage in play has guys with buckets of snow packing problem spots, the ice is horrible. We got into the final an hour plus before puck drop and the ice crew was working way to hard in the area in front of the Badger bench. We had squiegie's moving major ammounts of water 10 minutes after the zamboni had finished and it should have been rock solid. Hell they had the pump up weed sprayer going and the fire extinguishers. While, I've been know to use a pump up weed sprayer on my backyard rink, I've never used a fire extinguisher or squiegie. My backyard only hosts championships of the universe with my 7 year old and we don't award trophies. The fact that this was a championship event on that pathetic sheet of ice is a travesty. I doubt there is any coincidence that the 2 teams that had experience playing on portable crap ice surfaces earlier in the year ended up in the final via some of the most lopsided scores that I can remember in an F4 semi.

        Beyond the ice, the venue was just not right for championship hockey for a lot of reason. Ford Field would be fine for a Michigan/MSU regular season game where you want the specatacle to draw in the casual fan that won't notice the ice is crap and the resulting play is timid at best. The sightline from the risers were gruesome. We were in row 4, and could not see probably a 1/4er of the ice surface. Way to shallow and can not believe they did not ask someone from the Joe or that knows anything about hockey sightlines for an opinion on the shallow set up to correct it before fans got subjected to that craptacular seating. Even better, the video board was showing the game in reverse of how it was being played in front of you, so when you were unable to see the play (again about a 1/4er of the ice for us), you looked up at a video board where the play was opposite of what was happening right in front of you in real life. Simply genius!!! Last the accoustics wer terrible. Announcements that were about as muddled as trying to listen submerged in the bottom of a swimming pool.

        The highlight for this F4 was seeing how different downtown Detroit is from the stereotype. It was a vibrant downtown not unlike any other major city that had lots to be done and plenty safe. There seemed to be a greater knowledge among locals that the F4 was going on then other prior cities. Detroit would make a fabulous host for future F4...just not Ford Field please.

        Comment


        • #94
          Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

          Originally posted by Clifton View Post
          One comment/question about the title of this thread: For the old-timers around here, do people really think that the overall Frozen Four experience was worse this year than in Cincinnati in 1996? From my point of view (and as stated by many others on the board over the past few weeks), the overall experience comes down to three things: the fan experience outside of the games, the facility itself, and the games. Looking at each individually:

          - Fan experience: IMHO, there is no question that Detroit was far ahead of Cinci in this regard. My most memorable non-game experience in Cinci was hundreds of people storming a grossly understaffed Skyline Chili between semifinal games, because there was just about nothing else around the arena. The event was a non-event in the city, and virtually no preparations were made to make people feel welcome. The comments on this thread and others about Detroit, on the other hand, are very positive, with plenty to do around the venue, a host organization that made a real effort to welcome people, etc.
          - The facility: Cinci wins, but by a much closer margin than you would expect. Other than the fact that the arena was a basketball/hockey facility, it had no redeeming qualities whatsoever. The food was awful, the seats were ripped, a Zamboni broke down before the first game even began, and, if I recall correctly, the facility staff had a touch of a problem with the ice . Ford Field was the opposite--the "smaller" things were very good. It was the "big" ones that were the problem
          - The games themselves: In terms of excitment, of course Cinci wins. Of course, this isn't really something you can credit or blame the host committee for.

          Any thoughts?
          No question that apart from the games themselves Detroit is a better hockey environment and had more things to do. However, despite the ice problems in Cinci, I enjoyed "watching" the Frozen Four games there more than at Ford Field. Yes the seats in Cinci were the ugliest I've ever seen. Given a choice between going to a future Frozen Four at Cinci and one at Ford Field, I would choose Cinci. I doubt Cinci will ever have another one though.

          It's a matter of priorities. For me, viewing the actual games and having the electric atmosphere of the Frozen Four is a high priority. Ford Field failed me on both accounts. Sure we at least had a halfway decent view of the ice surface once we moved out of our $189 seats with an almost non-existent view of the games, but the seats at Ford Field are universally farther from the ice than comparable seats in an ice arena, and the cavernous size of the venue greatly diminished the electric atmosphere normally found at a Frozen Four.

          Comment


          • #95
            Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

            Originally posted by Bill View Post
            No question that apart from the games themselves Detroit is a better hockey environment and had more things to do. However, despite the ice problems in Cinci, I enjoyed "watching" the Frozen Four games there more than at Ford Field. Yes the seats in Cinci were the ugliest I've ever seen. Given a choice between going to a future Frozen Four at Cinci and one at Ford Field, I would choose Cinci. I doubt Cinci will ever have another one though.

            It's a matter of priorities. For me, viewing the actual games and having the electric atmosphere of the Frozen Four is a high priority. Ford Field failed me on both accounts. Sure we at least had a halfway decent view of the ice surface once we moved out of our $189 seats with an almost non-existent view of the games, but the seats at Ford Field are universally farther from the ice than comparable seats in an ice arena, and the cavernous size of the venue greatly diminished the electric atmosphere normally found at a Frozen Four.
            The problem with the "atmosphere" issue is who is there- in Cincinnati, a HUGE amount of the fans were from Michigan- wanting their first NC for decades plus UM brought the largest band, ever, to a final (and the rules changed because of it).

            OTOH, for whatever reason, the Wisconsin fans we heard at the start of Saturday's game sat on their collective hands for the rest of the time. It sounded like it was going to rock, and all that happened was that RIT kept trying to get them BACK into it.

            As for the seating- well, I didn't find it that bad, especially compared to some of the modern shallow NHL rinks we've visited. Both risers were horrible, true. But the upper bowl seats were darned good- our seats in Denver were WAY high. If you were expecting bad seats, I'm sure your opinion swayed toward that opinion. We han an open mind, and only didn't like the sound that was mic'ed. And ice level bands are bad. Very bad. Not like having the school bands on the wood floors.

            For those of you complaining about the glass- you'll note that the Joe has posts too. You would have had to complain about that, there, too.

            All things considered, how was Anaheim? And the 15 people who flew out to that? That had to be nice and lifeless.

            Comment


            • #96
              Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

              Originally posted by alfablue View Post
              The problem with the "atmosphere" issue is who is there- in Cincinnati, a HUGE amount of the fans were from Michigan- wanting their first NC for decades plus UM brought the largest band, ever, to a final (and the rules changed because of it).

              OTOH, for whatever reason, the Wisconsin fans we heard at the start of Saturday's game sat on their collective hands for the rest of the time. It sounded like it was going to rock, and all that happened was that RIT kept trying to get them BACK into it.

              As for the seating- well, I didn't find it that bad, especially compared to some of the modern shallow NHL rinks we've visited. Both risers were horrible, true. But the upper bowl seats were darned good- our seats in Denver were WAY high. If you were expecting bad seats, I'm sure your opinion swayed toward that opinion. We han an open mind, and only didn't like the sound that was mic'ed. And ice level bands are bad. Very bad. Not like having the school bands on the wood floors.

              For those of you complaining about the glass- you'll note that the Joe has posts too. You would have had to complain about that, there, too.

              All things considered, how was Anaheim? And the 15 people who flew out to that? That had to be nice and lifeless.
              The atmosphere for all the Frozen Fours I've been to was better than Ford Field. We've sat in or close to the top of the upper bowls in a few Frozen Fours and the view from there is better than pretty much any seat at Ford Field, simply because we were horizontally much closer to the ice and could see what was going on better. The atmosphere issue at Ford Field was principally a function of being so far from the ice surface horizontally, not which teams were there or what the scores of the games were. That plus the terrible acoustics.

              Anaheim wasn't as good of a host as Detroit, but the hockey games themselves had a lot better atmosphere and the seats were better. The fact that it was in a hockey arena does make that much difference.

              Comment


              • #97
                Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

                Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                OTOH, for whatever reason, the Wisconsin fans we heard at the start of Saturday's game sat on their collective hands for the rest of the time. It sounded like it was going to rock, and all that happened was that RIT kept trying to get them BACK into it.
                No need to guess. The performance of Wisconsin fans mirrored the performance of the Wisconsin team.

                Had UW popped in a goal and tied up the game at 1 before the wheels came off, the crowd would have erupted. As it was, they sure didn't have much to cheer for.
                "...the great state University of Wisconsin should ever encourage that continual and fearless sifting and winnowing by which alone the truth can be found."

                Wisconsin '05 Michigan '07

                http://noalibisnoregrets.blogspot.com/

                my other blog

                Comment


                • #98
                  Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

                  Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                  All things considered, how was Anaheim? And the 15 people who flew out to that? That had to be nice and lifeless.
                  Anaheim was strange. It was in the 50's in Southern California in April. There was no hope of anyone driving in to see the championship game like happened in Detroit and Cincinnati. But the games themselves were much more exciting (and closer, obviously). The crowds were relatively small, but UNH, Maine, and MSU had fair followings there, so the atmosphere was decent. As far as the "bad" weather, compared to what the weather was like back here in Western New York at the time, we were still thrilled to be elsewhere that weekend.

                  While I'm at it, I'll throw in my two cents about this most recent FF. Yes, Detroit did a fantastic job hosting the tournament, as expected. And yes, the site stunk. If they ever do that in a football field again, I will absolutely not attend. And I do believe they will, eventually... I have no idea where, though.
                  Our seats were located in the 6th row in the risers and we couldn't see S### (goes to show you what a 13 priority level gets you). We watched the entire first period on the jumbotron before bailing and simply taking whatever vacant seats we could find. Fortunately for the last two periods of the BC-Miami game and for the championship game, someone my sister knows had empty seats near them that we sat in. They weren't too horrible, but still felt like we were really far away (in row 21 near the BC corner). As far as the PA sound goes, from the field seats, you couldn't hear a single thing on the PA very clearly, but once we got up into the real stands, it was much improved. The crowd noise was pretty dulled by the arena everywhere we sat, especially in the risers. Even though there were a group of Wisconsin fans right behind us, when they scored (and scored, and scored, and scored, etc...) against RIT, it just didn't seem very loud even though it looked like there were a fair number of Wisco fans standing and cheering. When we walked through the concourse to get over to the RIT corner near the end, we couldn't even make out that the Badgers had just scored two more goals. I had to peek through one of the tunnels to accidentally find out that the score was 7-1, then 8-1. Which brings me to another point... with the lack of a center-ice scoreboard made it a little confusing to find out information about the game. The banner scoreboards at the ends were difficult to read at times as they kept shifting the numbers around when there were penalties and such. I was impressed with the stadium as a whole. I would love to see a football game in there. But for hockey, I could do without it. Unfortunately, I can't see the NCAA passing up the opportunity to sell 37,000+ tickets to the game again. I guess we'll find out. If they do do this again, let's just hope that RIT can pull out another minor miracle and get in there so the Corner Crew can keep us all entertained again
                  Can't we all just get along?
                  Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

                  Comment


                  • #99
                    Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

                    Originally posted by TigerFan86-87 View Post
                    I had to peek through one of the tunnels to accidentally find out that the score was 7-1, then 8-1.
                    If that's your criteria, you might as well cancel your Frozen Four tickets. I doubt the X is going to get that loud over a 6 or 7 goal lead either.
                    Originally posted by dicaslover
                    Yep, you got it. I heart Maize.

                    Originally posted by Kristin
                    Maybe I'm missing something but you just asked me which MSU I go to and then you knew the theme of my homecoming, how do you know one and not the other?

                    Western College Hockey Blog

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                    • Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

                      Originally posted by Bill View Post
                      The atmosphere for all the Frozen Fours I've been to was better than Ford Field. We've sat in or close to the top of the upper bowls in a few Frozen Fours and the view from there is better than pretty much any seat at Ford Field, simply because we were horizontally much closer to the ice and could see what was going on better. The atmosphere issue at Ford Field was principally a function of being so far from the ice surface horizontally, not which teams were there or what the scores of the games were. That plus the terrible acoustics.

                      Anaheim wasn't as good of a host as Detroit, but the hockey games themselves had a lot better atmosphere and the seats were better. The fact that it was in a hockey arena does make that much difference.
                      It was also the first time there were 3 blowouts.

                      For blowout 1, the Wisconsin fans didn't all make it to Detroit, yet.

                      For blowout 2, BC didn't have all that many fans.

                      For blowout 3, Wisconsin >>> BC fans, and neither their fans nor the band tried to do anything.

                      For much of "atmosphere"- it has a lot to do with how good the game is. Yes, Ford Field was, and will be, quieter than pretty much all hockey arenas. But it should not take RIT fans to get the two championship team fans on their feet. And thankfully, we were next to RIT for that pretty lame ending to the game- they really helped.

                      Good games will keep a small crowd on their toes. Bad games will do nothing to a large crowd.

                      Apples and oranges.

                      Comment


                      • Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

                        Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                        For much of "atmosphere"- it has a lot to do with how good the game is.
                        Clearly correct.

                        Yes, Ford Field was, and will be, quieter than pretty much all hockey arenas.
                        Ironically, the much-larger-than-usual contigent of neutral newbies may have had a chilling effect on the rest of the crowd. If everyone sitting around you is wildly fired up, you also tend to get fired up. But if everyone close by is just out for a stroll in the park, that can also be contagious -- maybe even a little intimidating.

                        But it should not take RIT fans to get the two championship team fans on their feet. And thankfully, we were next to RIT for that pretty lame ending to the game- they really helped.
                        At least we scored! At least we scored! Well done, RIT.

                        Good games will keep a small crowd on their toes. Bad games will do nothing to a large crowd.

                        Apples and oranges.
                        Not the whole story, as suggested above. But certainly true.

                        Comment


                        • Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

                          Of course, even if the fans were all fired up, the stadium is still half empty - even with record crowds for a hockey game.
                          "...the great state University of Wisconsin should ever encourage that continual and fearless sifting and winnowing by which alone the truth can be found."

                          Wisconsin '05 Michigan '07

                          http://noalibisnoregrets.blogspot.com/

                          my other blog

                          Comment


                          • Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

                            Originally posted by MaizeRage View Post
                            If that's your criteria, you might as well cancel your Frozen Four tickets. I doubt the X is going to get that loud over a 6 or 7 goal lead either.
                            You've got a point... Although what I was getting at is that in a hockey arena, when something meaningful happens on the ice you can usually notice when you're in the concourse even if it didn't produce a huge roar from the crowd. In Ford Field, I generally had no clue that anything was going on inside the rink from the concourse.
                            Can't we all just get along?
                            Always remember... This is just a game we're talking about here. Let's not take it all too seriously.

                            Comment


                            • Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

                              Originally posted by alfablue View Post
                              For blowout 3, Wisconsin >>> BC fans, and neither their fans nor the band tried to do anything.
                              The game was 1-0 after 2 periods. It might have ended up a blowout, but it wasn't for the majority of the game. The BC band was behind the glass at the opposite end of the rink from their fans. They were at the same end in game 1 and it mad a difference.
                              Originally posted by mookie1995
                              bc is superior to bu in nearly everything. while it is sad that it has come to it, it's the truth. if bu doesn't like it, improve.
                              Rep from Hokydad -"and your an old never been piece of ****"

                              Originally Posted by Dirty
                              Why is anyone surprised that Old Pio is acting like a grumpy old f^ck? He is a grumpy old f^ck.

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                              • Re: Worst Frozen Four Ever

                                Originally posted by theprofromdover View Post
                                The game was 1-0 after 2 periods. It might have ended up a blowout, but it wasn't for the majority of the game. The BC band was behind the glass at the opposite end of the rink from their fans. They were at the same end in game 1 and it mad a difference.
                                True, which, to me, makes it so curious that the Wisconsin fans as a whole were so quiet. The BC band was playing as much as they could, whereas the Wisconsin band, well, didn't. Being in the same end- it was quite enjoyable to hear them so much.

                                They were only loud when the teams were announced. After that, they only seemed to react to RIT, and not what was going on between BC and Wisconsin.

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