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  • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

    Illitch would never move his team to The Palace, even for a short period of time. They need to look into The Palace for the sake of sound business management but think about this...

    Illitch's headquarters are located downtown, and so is his flagship restaurant. Most importantly he owns 23 parking lots and 2 ramps downtown that would now go unused for 41 nights a year (55ish if you include playoffs). Illitch has great relations with the city government (too good if you ask me) and if he wants to extend his lease at The Joe for a couple years while a new arena is constructed, he will certainly have that opportunity.

    As much land as he owns behind The Fox Theater, I dont think a rink will go there. From an urban design proposal, those streets (Clifford/Cass/Park) are extremely important for flow of vehicles out of downtown on event nights. It is unlikely that the city would allow one or more of them to be blocked off. The more likely option would be a new rink just North of I75, along Woodward Avenue, right across from the Crosswinds Condos.

    I live on Adams St. between Woodward and Park ave, and this is the discussions going around our building and the business owners in the area. I'm not an expert on development, but I do follow the happenings in this neighborhood.
    Last edited by STATEdude3; 04-05-2010, 02:53 PM.
    MICHIGAN STATE
    1966:1986:2007

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    • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

      Originally posted by STATEdude3 View Post
      Illitch would never move his team to The Palace, even for a short period of time. They need to look into The Palace for the sake of sound business management but think about this...

      Illitch's headquarters are located downtown, and so is his flagship restaurant. Most importantly he owns 23 parking lots and 2 ramps downtown that would now go unused for 41 nights a year (55ish if you include playoffs). Illitch has great relations with the city government (too good if you ask me) and if he wants to extend his lease at The Joe for a couple years while a new arena is constructed, he will certainly have that opportunity.

      As much land as he owns behind The Fox Theater, I dont think a rink will go there. From an urban design proposal, those streets (Clifford/Cass/Park) are extremely important for flow of vehicles out of downtown on event nights. It is unlikely that the city would allow one or more of them to be blocked off. The more likely option would be a new rink just North of I75, along Woodward Avenue, right across from the Crosswinds Condos.

      I live on Adams St. between Woodward and Park ave, and this is the discussions going around our building and the business owners in the area. I'm not an expert on development, but I do follow the happenings in this neighborhood.
      A hockey rink footprint is pretty small isn't it? Would Clifford/Columbia/Park/Adams be big enough? it seems like it would be close enough that if you had to shift Clifford to the west a bit to get a big enough footprint you could...
      Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

      Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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      • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

        Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
        A hockey rink footprint is pretty small isn't it? Would Clifford/Columbia/Park/Adams be big enough? it seems like it would be close enough that if you had to shift Clifford to the west a bit to get a big enough footprint you could...
        Possibly, if it went up against Grand River...but I would be concerned with the costs of rerouting streets and underground utilities, when there are massive plots of land available in an equally ideal location that is already city owned/illitch operated that would not require this. In addition, there needs to be a link between downtown and the midtown neighborhood that starts around Charlotte St. This could help spur development between Woodward and the Cass Corridor in that direction.
        MICHIGAN STATE
        1966:1986:2007

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        • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

          Found a video called "Testing the Ice with the Media All-Star Game" on the CCHA site. It shows what appears to be the finished product...

          http://www.ccha.com/multimedia/?VideoId=146

          So did they decide to not put any type of curtain up behind risers 01 through 05?... and speaking of those riser seats, I was expecting a bit more of an incline to those riser seats.

          We are sitting in Riser 01 about 30 or so rows up. At least from the video, the players may have more on an incline to walk to get to the locker room than I will getting up to my row.

          The .59 second mark of the video shows the big picture.

          Maybe we will have short people (or no people) sitting in front of us.

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          • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

            Detroit seems to tear down and build arenas/stadiums as though it's a little cottage industry unto itself.

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            • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

              Originally posted by JD Doe View Post
              Found a video called "Testing the Ice with the Media All-Star Game" on the CCHA site. It shows what appears to be the finished product...

              http://www.ccha.com/multimedia/?VideoId=146

              So did they decide to not put any type of curtain up behind risers 01 through 05?... and speaking of those riser seats, I was expecting a bit more of an incline to those riser seats.

              We are sitting in Riser 01 about 30 or so rows up. At least from the video, the players may have more on an incline to walk to get to the locker room than I will getting up to my row.

              The .59 second mark of the video shows the big picture.

              Maybe we will have short people (or no people) sitting in front of us.
              If I had to take a guess, maybe there's some sort of pneumatic device that will jack the risers up to more of an angle?

              Comment


              • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

                Originally posted by STATEdude3 View Post
                Illitch would never move his team to The Palace, even for a short period of time. They need to look into The Palace for the sake of sound business management but think about this...
                Well, not unless he wants to buy the Pistons.

                Illitch's headquarters are located downtown, and so is his flagship restaurant. Most importantly he owns 23 parking lots and 2 ramps downtown that would now go unused for 41 nights a year (55ish if you include playoffs). Illitch has great relations with the city government (too good if you ask me) and if he wants to extend his lease at The Joe for a couple years while a new arena is constructed, he will certainly have that opportunity.

                As much land as he owns behind The Fox Theater, I dont think a rink will go there. From an urban design proposal, those streets (Clifford/Cass/Park) are extremely important for flow of vehicles out of downtown on event nights. It is unlikely that the city would allow one or more of them to be blocked off. The more likely option would be a new rink just North of I75, along Woodward Avenue, right across from the Crosswinds Condos.

                I live on Adams St. between Woodward and Park ave, and this is the discussions going around our building and the business owners in the area. I'm not an expert on development, but I do follow the happenings in this neighborhood.
                I worked on an urban design project for exactly this issue back in Grad School. The best solution we came up with was to push the arena all the way up against Grand River - you'd have to close Columbia Street, but you'd then be able to have a big enough footprint for the arena there, and Illitch can develop all the land he owns between Cass and Woodward.

                Which building are you in on Adams? Some cool renovations there.

                Originally posted by STATEdude3 View Post
                Possibly, if it went up against Grand River...but I would be concerned with the costs of rerouting streets and underground utilities, when there are massive plots of land available in an equally ideal location that is already city owned/illitch operated that would not require this. In addition, there needs to be a link between downtown and the midtown neighborhood that starts around Charlotte St. This could help spur development between Woodward and the Cass Corridor in that direction.
                An arena alone won't be a big enough link up and down Woodward. For one, Woodward has enough anchors for activity between downtown, the Max Fisher Music Center, Wayne State, DIA, and New Center. That's all within the scope of the light rail line plan, which will do a far better job to link those destinations than just an arena.

                Instead, arenas are nodes for people to walk to and from - and the Woodward corridor is too far to walk alone (hence the need for light rail) - but downtown is not. Pushing the arena up against Grand River allows for a walkable connection either to the MGM or to the Fox Theater area, and in turn Greektown, etc.

                At least, that's my thought.
                "...the great state University of Wisconsin should ever encourage that continual and fearless sifting and winnowing by which alone the truth can be found."

                Wisconsin '05 Michigan '07

                http://noalibisnoregrets.blogspot.com/

                my other blog

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                • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

                  Originally posted by blockski View Post
                  I worked on an urban design project for exactly this issue back in Grad School. The best solution we came up with was to push the arena all the way up against Grand River - you'd have to close Columbia Street, but you'd then be able to have a big enough footprint for the arena there, and Illitch can develop all the land he owns between Cass and Woodward.
                  So you're talking about Grand River, 2nd Ave, Fisher Fwy, Cass Ave and Elizabeth St?
                  Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                  Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                  • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

                    Looking at the google map, I was expecting Bookie's Bar and Grill, which borders the area that Blockski mentioned, to be a run down ****hole dive bar. I go to streetview and it is a nice looking, new brick building sitting by itself in a sea of parking lots. Maybe the owner is banking on an arena getting put there, because he would have a prime location if it happened.
                    Having a clear conscience just means you have a bad memory or you had a boring weekend.

                    RIP - Kirby

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                    • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

                      Originally posted by bigblue_dl View Post
                      Looking at the google map, I was expecting Bookie's Bar and Grill, which borders the area that Blockski mentioned, to be a run down ****hole dive bar. I go to streetview and it is a nice looking, new brick building sitting by itself in a sea of parking lots. Maybe the owner is banking on an arena getting put there, because he would have a prime location if it happened.
                      In Detroit you can never judge an establishment on its surroundings, or even the building that it is in. Our greatest treasures are hidden in places that you would not dream of entering. "Don't judge a book by its cover" is the way to really get to know Detroit.
                      MICHIGAN STATE
                      1966:1986:2007

                      Comment


                      • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

                        Originally posted by blockski View Post
                        Well, not unless he wants to buy the Pistons.



                        I worked on an urban design project for exactly this issue back in Grad School. The best solution we came up with was to push the arena all the way up against Grand River - you'd have to close Columbia Street, but you'd then be able to have a big enough footprint for the arena there, and Illitch can develop all the land he owns between Cass and Woodward.

                        Which building are you in on Adams? Some cool renovations there.



                        An arena alone won't be a big enough link up and down Woodward. For one, Woodward has enough anchors for activity between downtown, the Max Fisher Music Center, Wayne State, DIA, and New Center. That's all within the scope of the light rail line plan, which will do a far better job to link those destinations than just an arena.

                        Instead, arenas are nodes for people to walk to and from - and the Woodward corridor is too far to walk alone (hence the need for light rail) - but downtown is not. Pushing the arena up against Grand River allows for a walkable connection either to the MGM or to the Fox Theater area, and in turn Greektown, etc.

                        At least, that's my thought.
                        Good stuff here...thanks for your input.

                        My point about linking downtown and midtown was not so much about walkability, but helping provide a functional and practical street wall along Woodward Ave. If the city wants to develop the central Cass Corridor area and Brush Park, they cannot continue to ignore the large plots of land along that areas primary thoroughfare.

                        oh, and I live in The Kales Bldg.

                        /hijack
                        MICHIGAN STATE
                        1966:1986:2007

                        Comment


                        • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

                          Originally posted by STATEdude3 View Post
                          In Detroit you can never judge an establishment on its surroundings, or even the building that it is in. Our greatest treasures are hidden in places that you would not dream of entering. "Don't judge a book by its cover" is the way to really get to know Detroit.
                          And get shot all in the same day but seriously you think someone that hasn't been to detroit before should check out crappy looking places and hope its a safe place to be?
                          Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                          Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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                          • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

                            Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                            And get shot all in the same day but seriously you think someone that hasn't been to detroit before should check out crappy looking places and hope its a safe place to be?
                            Truth is there is not a whole lot of places here that have the pristine, hip exterior of other cities. Detroit is 309 years old, most of our core was build in the 20's-40's. Some people expect something else when they come here. I am simply pointing out that people should not be turned away based on the streetscapes they may see.

                            I'm telling people exactly what they are going to see. I'm not going to call it something it's not. Just trying to be a good host...but thanks for your input.
                            MICHIGAN STATE
                            1966:1986:2007

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                            • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

                              Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                              So you're talking about Grand River, 2nd Ave, Fisher Fwy, Cass Ave and Elizabeth St?
                              Yep, pretty much.

                              Originally posted by Shirtless Guy View Post
                              And get shot all in the same day but seriously you think someone that hasn't been to detroit before should check out crappy looking places and hope its a safe place to be?
                              It's true - and it applies to a lot of other places, too. The best spots aren't the obvious ones, they're the hole in the wall type places. Finding those spots in Detroit is really the same thing, just in a different setting.

                              Originally posted by STATEdude3 View Post
                              Good stuff here...thanks for your input.

                              My point about linking downtown and midtown was not so much about walkability, but helping provide a functional and practical street wall along Woodward Ave. If the city wants to develop the central Cass Corridor area and Brush Park, they cannot continue to ignore the large plots of land along that areas primary thoroughfare.

                              oh, and I live in The Kales Bldg.

                              /hijack
                              I figured you might live in the Kales. Nice renovation there.

                              As for walkability, it's vitally important to rebuild the streetwall, but I'm not sure an arena alone can help that particular stretch of Grand River. What I worry about is putting it across the freeway from the rest of downtown, as that's a major physical and psychological barrier. Keeping the arena south of the freeway gives you a chance to reach a critical mass of pedestrian and street activity.
                              "...the great state University of Wisconsin should ever encourage that continual and fearless sifting and winnowing by which alone the truth can be found."

                              Wisconsin '05 Michigan '07

                              http://noalibisnoregrets.blogspot.com/

                              my other blog

                              Comment


                              • Re: Ford Field Rink Installation

                                Originally posted by blockski View Post
                                It's true - and it applies to a lot of other places, too. The best spots aren't the obvious ones, they're the hole in the wall type places. Finding those spots in Detroit is really the same thing, just in a different setting.
                                There is a huge difference between wandering around looking for them and doing some research before you get there and taking the advice of someone from there/who has been there. I can't see myself randomly looking around in Detroit for anything...
                                Michigan Tech Legend, Founder of Mitch's Misfits, Co-Founder of Tech Hockey Guide, and Creator/Host of the Chasing MacNaughton Podcast covering MTU Hockey and the WCHA.

                                Sports Allegiance: NFL: GB MLB: MIL NHL: MIN CB: UW CF: UW CH: MTU FIFA: USA MLS: MIN EPL: Everton

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