UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

[boblav1]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

The Western College Hockey Blog chimes in on the PSU issue.

There's been rumors of a new college hockey team potentially joining the CCHA going around the last week or so, and I've been slow to comment, mainly because I thought, based on recent precedent, the CCHA had made it clear they had no use for a program with a 6000-seat arena, that is hundreds of miles away from the rest of the league, in an area that doesn't produce a lot of hockey players. But I guess a name makes quite a difference

[COHockey]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

You know, all of a sudden the 2013 and 2014 frozen fours make sense...

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Julie...Means/99/29730

Good article. I do however, have to pick on one thing. She mentions that Penn State has a successful women's program. At the club level, yes they do. I played them and they have a very good team. A very good club team. I honestly couldn't see them making the jump to DI right now. Although becoming DI would attract more talent, and Pennsylvania girls' hockey is full of talented players, it would be several years I think before they could even ice a competitive DI team. So I think that puts a chink in the Title IX issue armor for Penn State.

[Red Cloud]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

If the PSU thing comes across, holy hell ... there aren't enough censors on the USCHO forum for the venom I'd unleash, and I'd probably get banned. Be worth it, though.

I'd join in.

[moose97]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

http://www.hockeybuzz.com/blog/Julie...Means/99/29730

Good article. I do however, have to pick on one thing. She mentions that Penn State has a successful women's program. At the club level, yes they do. I played them and they have a very good team. A very good club team. I honestly couldn't see them making the jump to DI right now. Although becoming DI would attract more talent, and Pennsylvania girls' hockey is full of talented players, it would be several years I think before they could even ice a competitive DI team. So I think that puts a chink in the Title IX issue armor for Penn State.

Why is it that every time a school with a club hockey team is said to be considering adding D-I hockey we have this discussion? Okay, here we go - How many kids on RMU's '03-'04 club team played for the varsity D-I team in '04-'05, do you think? Give up? The answer is zero. Same will be the case when/if Penn State starts a varsity D-I team. In fact, PSU likely would still offer club hockey (just like RMU still does) after starting up varsity D-I. Now, maybe a few women's players might make the PSU varsity team from the club team, but there's a reason most of these players are playing club and not varsity D-I. Keep in mind that the first season, RMU had 21 Freshmen + 3 transfers... PSU would likely be the same.

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

Why is it that every time a school with a club hockey team is said to be considering adding D-I hockey we have this discussion? Okay, here we go - How many kids on RMU's '03-'04 club team played for the varsity D-I team in '04-'05, do you think? Give up? The answer is zero. Same will be the case when/if Penn State starts a varsity D-I team. In fact, PSU likely would still offer club hockey (just like RMU still does) after starting up varsity D-I. Now, maybe a few women's players might make the PSU varsity team from the club team, but there's a reason most of these players are playing club and not varsity D-I. Keep in mind that the first season, RMU had 21 Freshmen + 3 transfers... PSU would likely be the same.

I get your point, but it doesn't completely invalidate mine. Yes, PSU would bring in a lot of great talent that wasn't on their club team. Maybe only one or two girls from the club team would make the varsity squad. None of the teams in the CCHA offer women's DI hockey. What conference would they join? WCHA? Best conference in women's hockey in my opinion. It would be very tough, but maybe in 5 years or so they would be competitive. Would they be in Hockey East? Not geographically ideal. So their best bet would probably be the CHA, plus Robert Morris is in that conference. Good rivalry there potentially. The CHA has talent but still isn't as good as the WCHA. I'm not saying DI hockey couldn't work for the women at PSU, I'm just saying it would take a while to be competitive. And if I were UAH, I would be highly ****ed off about this because they have a team that is DI already and has been for awhile. They have shown they can compete with the high level teams, they've made NCAA's, and they have a great schedule against quality opponents. I know this is all speculative that if PSU added DI men's, they would add DI women's too. But to be compliant with Title IX they would have to add some woman's sport with a good deal of roster spots. And women's hockey does make the most sense. What I'm saying is that, as a UAH fan, I would be highly ****ed off if the CCHA takes a brand new DI program (and women's program that would have to be in the WCHA or CHA) over one that has proven success at the DI level.

[moose97]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

I get your point, but it doesn't completely invalidate mine.

Last thing I'll say on this subject - I never said they would win the national championship with 21 freshmen and 3 transfers (ala RMU, who won only 8 games with that many freshmen) ; In fact, holy crap - your contention is that they wouldn't be competitive for a while, and that's why they shouldn't do it? Man, that's just dumb...

I do however, have to pick on one thing. She mentions that Penn State has a successful women's program. At the club level, yes they do. I played them and they have a very good team. A very good club team. I honestly couldn't see them making the jump to DI right now.

In fact, the above implies that there would never be a good time to "jump" (I'll use your term for argument's sake). Since PSU (or any schoool starting a varsity team - men's or otherwise) essentially starts its roster from scratch, unless they can bring in top-level recruits that could win them a conference or national title (from what I understand of your argument), it isn't worth it, since it would take "several years I think before they could even ice a competitive DI team." Well, how do you think they are going to bring in those better players? By telling incomming club players that they "may" be going D-I sometime in the future, and the better players will magically decide to forgo those scholarship offers to Mercyhurst (a women's CHA team that was #1 in the nation last year, BTW), or Wisconsin or UMD or UMinn? Or should they actually start a varsity team, and recruit better players and offer scholarships, rather than telling them that they have to "pay to play?"

Like I said, I'm gonna be done with this discussion now. If you don't understand what I'm saying, no one can help you...

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

Last thing I'll say on this subject - I never said they would win the national championship with 21 freshmen and 3 transfers (ala RMU, who won only 8 games with that many freshmen), just that your contention that:


Implies that there would never be a good time to "jump" (I'll use your term for argument's sake). Since PSU (or any schoool starting a varsity team - men's or otherwise) essentially starts its roster from scratch, unless they can bring in top-level recruits that could win them a conference or national title (from what I understand of your argument), it isn't worth it, since it would take "several years I think before they could even ice a competitive DI team." Well, how do you think they are going to bring in those better players? By telling incomming club players that they "may" be going D-I sometime in the future, and the better players will magically decide to forgo those scholarship offers to Mercyhurst (a women's CHA team that was #1 in the nation last year, BTW), or Wisconsin or UMD or UMinn? Or should they actually start a varsity team, and recruit better players and offer scholarships, rather than telling them that they have to "pay to play?"

Like I said, I'm gonna be done with this discussion now. If you don't understand what I'm saying, no one can help you...

Dude calm down. No need to talk to me like I'm incompetent and be an *** about things. I completely understand what you're saying. I didn't mean there wasn't a good time to jump to DI. What I meant was that since UAH already has a DI program in place and has for awhile, they would understandably be ****ed off if the CCHA accepts PSU over them. I'm not knocking PSU at all. Great school, great athletics, they would do great (eventually) in DI hockey, men's and women's. I'm just looking at this from a UAH fan's point of view. And how UAH is more ready to compete NOW rather than in several years like PSU would more than likely be.

[RMUColonials]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

And women's hockey does make the most sense. What I'm saying is that, as a UAH fan, I would be highly ****ed off if the CCHA takes a brand new DI program (and women's program that would have to be in the WCHA or CHA) over one that has proven success at the DI level.

Obviously, it sucks for UAH, but if you think that the CCHA member schools are going to pass up a chance to add a name D1 school like Penn State with the resources and fan base to be a player in NCAA hockey, you are crazy.

And the CHA would be a fine landing spot for a Penn State Women's program, with perennial top 5 Mercyhurst and a "name" university in Syracuse, plus fairly short trips to RMU and Niagara. Hell, it may even be enough to convince Ohio State to leave the WCHA.

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

Obviously, it sucks for UAH, but if you think that the CCHA member schools are going to pass up a chance to add a name D1 school like Penn State with the resources and fan base to be a player in NCAA hockey, you are crazy.

And the CHA would be a fine landing spot for a Penn State Women's program, with perennial top 5 Mercyhurst and a "name" university in Syracuse, plus fairly short trips to RMU and Niagara. Hell, it may even be enough to convince Ohio State to leave the WCHA.

I'm not crazy. I know that PSU is a cosmetically better choice. I would just consider it a huge slap in the face to UAH. A PSU women's program would do great in the CHA. And I've talked about OSU leaving the WCHA for the CHA in other threads. It would make their road to the NCAA's a bit easier that's for sure, but I can't see it happening any time soon, honestly.

[moose97]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

Dude calm down. No need to talk to me like I'm incompetent and be an *** about things. I completely understand what you're saying. I didn't mean there wasn't a good time to jump to DI. What I meant was that since UAH already has a DI program in place and has for awhile, they would understandably be ****ed off if the CCHA accepts PSU over them. I'm not knocking PSU at all. Great school, great athletics, they would do great (eventually) in DI hockey, men's and women's. I'm just looking at this from a UAH fan's point of view. And how UAH is more ready to compete NOW rather than in several years like PSU would more than likely be.

Well, see - you're talking about two seperate things. You said that PSU wouldn't be capable of elevating to D-I varsity and being competitive (specifically citing your experience with the women's club team), but apparently you're just upset about the CCHA potentially accepting PSU's men's team. Glad that was clear from the beginning

[gmann]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

One year to the day.

I won't name my sources, but I stand behind what I wrote, both on the UAH side of things and on what I've heard from CCHA folks. I am, admittedly, just a dude on the Internet with a blog, but it's up to you to decide whether I have any credibility or not.

If the PSU thing comes across, holy hell ... there aren't enough censors on the USCHO forum for the venom I'd unleash, and I'd probably get banned. Be worth it, though.

GFM

Good read but it doesn't change the fact that I still hate Huntsville.

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

Well, see - you're talking about two seperate things. You said that PSU wouldn't be capable of elevating to D-I varsity and being competitive (specifically citing your experience with the women's club team), but apparently you're just upset about the CCHA potentially accepting PSU's men's team. Glad that was clear from the beginning

Sorry if I wasn't clear in the first place, but you need to chill out a bit dude. Just a friendly discussion.

[sbkbghockey]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

I'm not crazy. I know that PSU is a cosmetically better choice. I would just consider it a huge slap in the face to UAH. A PSU women's program would do great in the CHA. And I've talked about OSU leaving the WCHA for the CHA in other threads. It would make their road to the NCAA's a bit easier that's for sure, but I can't see it happening any time soon, honestly.

Geeze ppl are cross checking cammie in here today. I agree it's a huge slap in the face to UAH. But in reinforces the point that many in academics don't like- college sports esp at the DI level is big business! Business wise it makes sense the CCHA wants PSU more than UAH and it is a slap in the face they didn't take UAH when there wasnt all the PSU rumors/talk.

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: UAH Dog Days of Summer 2010: All By Myself....

Geeze ppl are cross checking cammie in here today. I agree it's a huge slap in the face to UAH. But in reinforces the point that many in academics don't like- college sports esp at the DI level is big business! Business wise it makes sense the CCHA wants PSU more than UAH and it is a slap in the face they didn't take UAH when there wasnt all the PSU rumors/talk.

Eh, I'm a goalie. I can take a whack every now and again. lol.