Did the officials screw up

[MagnessMan]

Re: Did the officials screw up

It was the right call. The rule is clear and it was followed. We've all fallen victim to this one and I'm sure for UM fans this was a hard one to digest given the timing. It was an amazing hockey game--the best of the weekend (which had a lot of good games). Big Blue outplayed them in the first OT and didn't get the bounce. I have to say I'm glad for the Redhawks, that the Hockey Gods shone down on them and are allowing a chance of redemption. I was there last April and I still can't believe it happened.

[Redskins4evr]

Re: Did the officials screw up

Here's the deal...if your team lost it was a bad call...if your team won it was good call...if you have never reffed you just don't know.

[chapmaja]

Re: Did the officials screw up

Let me remind people of something. I did not ask if the officials cost Michigan the game. Michigan had chance after chance after chance to win this game and either were stopped by a goalie that was on fire, or just missed.

With that said, the question remains (and likely will always remain) not if the goal should have been disallowed or allowed), but WHAT WAS THE REASON THE WHISTLE WAS BLOWN.

I have heard nothing official, and likely never will, about why the official blew the play dead. It was clear the whistle was blown prior to the puck entering the net, so no matter what, once the whistle was blown it wasn't going to be a goal.

There appear to be three possible reasons it was blown.



First, since it was a delayed penalty call on Miami, the official felt Miami had controlled the puck, thus the whistle should have been blown.

In regards to this possiblity and the way the rule reads the official messed up by ruling Miami had controlled the puck.


Second, the official lost sight of the puck.

If this is the reason it was blown dead, then evry time the puck sneaks behind the goalie and the view of the puck is blocked, then the officials should blow it dead. The fact they don't blow it dead shows serious inconsistancy in officiating, not only from game to game, but within game itself (Miami's second goal).


The final reason it could have been blown dead, that hasn't been mentioned is something I thought of on review of the tape on Youtube.

If I recall correctly from the radio broadcast the face off was brought out to center ice after the review. I can think of only one reason the faceoff would come outside and that would be a violation by Michigan, such as a player in the crease. Lynch was in the crease when he shot the puck, but clearly went in after it, not before it was in the crease and it appearsdid not interfere with Knapp.

Unless we know the reason it was blown dead, it's hard to speculate on if it was truely a blown call, a quick whistle or a correct call.


From the prespective of a Michigan fan, I don't think Miami would have much of an argument if the goal was allowed and Michigan had won the game. I would like some Miami fans, or non-Michigan fans to state what the argument would be against the goal being allowed had the whistle not blown on the play (and the official did not have intent to blow it prior to the puck entering the net).


As for the argument about the possible Fix being in argument to get Michigan to the Frozen Four given the location at Ford Field. I know some people would make that argument, but I always find the fix arguments to be the lamest of all.


I know the NCAA couldn't publically state they wanted Michigan to make it, but privately you had better beleive the NCAA was hoping Michigan made it.

The NCAA is about $$$$$$ more than anything and having Michigan playing in the FF in Detroit would be huge for attendance at the game, plus it would be huge for the economy of Detroit (The smelly armpit of Michigan)


For the record I do live in the Metro Detroit Area and I think Detroit is a city in need of serious help and reorganization. Having Michigan make the FF would have been a huge boost to the economy of SE Michigan and Detroit. With Miami in the FF it doesn't bring nearly the drawto the event.

Oh well what happened happened and all we can do now is discuss it and hope the FF goes off successfully with Great Hockey being played

BTW: Go Miami, bring home a title for the CCHA.

[chapmaja]

Re: Did the officials screw up

Here's the deal...if your team lost it was a bad call...if your team won it was good call...if you have never reffed you just don't know.

I may not have reffed hockey, but I am a ref in many other sports so please don't tell me I just don't know.

I would guess I have spent more time officiating than most of the posters on this forum so I do know a thing or two about the rules, how to read the rules and the rule about being consistant.

The biggest issue remains, why was the whistle blown? Until we knw that answer officially, we are all speculating as to what the decision making was.

[chapmaja]

Re: Did the officials screw up

Originally Posted by MaizeRage
There was the possibility for the right one to be made last night, and it was not.

It's Ok MaizeRage and I hope you don't take it the wrong way. You lost the call was correct Video should be banned from all sports!!!!!!!! Why have ruels and officials. If you wish to have a video game so be it your more than welcome to start a team just for Mich.

I know that sounds bad sorry!

What part of the call was correct? Was it the part about the whistle being blown before the puck was in the net? If that is the part you say was correct I completely agree.

What I want to know is WHY was the whistle blown?

I think video replay has a place in all sports, including hockey, BUT there needs to be a limit to the reach of replay. Had this gae been won or lost on a puck just crossing the line we would want to see the replay to know if the call was correct. If it did what the puck in the Olympics did, and crossed just after the clock ran out we would want to know.

I don't favor replay being used to overturn penalty calls or make penalty calls in sports (unless the act is a savage act with the result or intended result being injury).

I just want to know why the whistle was blown in the first place, officially, not just speculation.

[MUhawks628]

Re: Did the officials screw up

From the prespective of a Michigan fan, I don't think Miami would have much of an argument if the goal was allowed and Michigan had won the game. I would like some Miami fans, or non-Michigan fans to state what the argument would be against the goal being allowed had the whistle not blown on the play (and the official did not have intent to blow it prior to the puck entering the net).

If the whistle didn't blow...good luck to Michigan against BC. I don't think there is a camera angle that shows Knapp touching the puck and having any sort of possession (I was at the game and only saw the one replay angel on ESPN). So there would not be much of an argument for Miami fans to make about the official not calling the play dead when he should have due to the penalty. I doubt anyone would have even floated that idea out there.

[chapmaja]

Re: Did the officials screw up

One more thing I would like to add.

Someone brought up football's replay system and how they allow the play to continue and then if needed reveiw the play.

I think college hockey needs to go to a similar system. Have the officials withold the whistle a little longer before blowing it, but allow the officials to make a ruling on the play under review.

The most likely issue is players taking swats that the goalie who has the puck covered. At this point holding the whislte for an extra second won't make a significant difference in injuries, but will allow officials to make sure they get the call correct. If on replay they see the puck was clearly covered and got poked out, disallow the goal. If the plays is allowed to continue and the puck ends up in the goal, the officials have a better chance to get the call correct both ways.

This would mean nothing for the past seasons games, but would need to be a rule change for upcoming seasons. The ultimate goal is to get the call correct and too many examples have been made of officials calling plays dead because they think they got it right when in reality they did not get it correct.

[MUhawks628]

Re: Did the officials screw up

The most likely issue is players taking swats that the goalie who has the puck covered. At this point holding the whislte for an extra second won't make a significant difference in injuries, but will allow officials to make sure they get the call correct. If on replay they see the puck was clearly covered and got poked out, disallow the goal. If the plays is allowed to continue and the puck ends up in the goal, the officials have a better chance to get the call correct both ways.

Soooo much more down time. Just say 5 pucks are frozen but get poked out and back into play because the official waits a little longer to blow his whistle. Each review is going to take almost 5 minutes and even then the determination that needs to be made will be extremely subjective. I get bored enough during 5 minutes of the ref staring at a monitor, let alone 25.

Not that I am against getting the call right, but there isnt really a foolproof solution.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Did the officials screw up

One more thing I would like to add.

Someone brought up football's replay system and how they allow the play to continue and then if needed reveiw the play.

I think college hockey needs to go to a similar system. Have the officials withold the whistle a little longer before blowing it, but allow the officials to make a ruling on the play under review.

The most likely issue is players taking swats that the goalie who has the puck covered. At this point holding the whislte for an extra second won't make a significant difference in injuries, but will allow officials to make sure they get the call correct. If on replay they see the puck was clearly covered and got poked out, disallow the goal. If the plays is allowed to continue and the puck ends up in the goal, the officials have a better chance to get the call correct both ways.

This would mean nothing for the past seasons games, but would need to be a rule change for upcoming seasons. The ultimate goal is to get the call correct and too many examples have been made of officials calling plays dead because they think they got it right when in reality they did not get it correct.

So you want replay to be more subjective? Brilliant plan.

Quick whistles happen all the time in every game. This is nothing new, people.

[streaker]

Re: Did the officials screw up

Unfortunately, the whistle had blown before the goal was scored. It happens all the time. That's hockey. It sucks if you are Michigan, tho.

I don't think that is the debate as much as why the official was so out of position on this play, where he was in good position and allowed the play to continue on Miami's second goal when the puck was clearly under Hunwick's pad.

The whistle was blown prematurely because he was not in position to see it. The call may be correct, but the reason for it is incompetence, especially when you have three other officials on the ice that probably can see what is going on. It's not like this is confined to the HEA because Michigan has been screwed over by similar calls in league play two years in a row. CCHA head of officials Steve Piotrowski has been quick to defend these actions, and did it again on this one.

Sooner or later they have to be held accountable... this cost Michigan a chance at a championship.

[Arpod]

Re: Did the officials screw up

... this cost Michigan a chance at a championship.

Any more so than hitting the post several times, misfiring on shots at an open net, and taking penalties that resulted in Miami scores? I suspect not. It is a drag, to be sure, but it happens ALL THE TIME to virtually every team that plays this game - from midgets to the pros. I truly wanted MI to win, but it is what it is. Time to move on.

[streaker]

Re: Did the officials screw up

Any more so than hitting the post several times, misfiring on shots at an open net, and taking penalties that resulted in Miami scores? I suspect not. It is a drag, to be sure, but it happens ALL THE TIME to virtually every team that plays this game - from midgets to the pros. I truly wanted MI to win, but it is what it is. Time to move on.

Miami can say the same thing, yet they had the opportunity given to them to continue to play and score the winner.

I didn't participate too much in these debates, so I'll decide when it's time to move on, if you don't mind. That's what this thread is for, BTW.

[chapmaja]

Re: Did the officials screw up

Soooo much more down time. Just say 5 pucks are frozen but get poked out and back into play because the official waits a little longer to blow his whistle. Each review is going to take almost 5 minutes and even then the determination that needs to be made will be extremely subjective. I get bored enough during 5 minutes of the ref staring at a monitor, let alone 25.

Not that I am against getting the call right, but there isnt really a foolproof solution.

I will respond to your comments and concerns.

First, To avoid having the official stare at the monitor for 5 minutes, have an off ice replay official like football does. Only the replay official reviews the play.

The replay would be initiated by the on-ice official only (unlike football).

As for the stopages in play. Holding the whistle for 1 to 2 seconds at most on a held puck situation would not result in 5 replays. In most games I don't think it would be an issue and even at the very most one or two times per game, not the 5 you think.


I will just use the Michigan-Miami game as an example. Had the official witheld his whistle for 1 second, the puck is in the back of the net and now he could initiate a replay to see if the puck had been frozen/covered/controlled by Miami, which would have resulted in a whistle. If control was ruled, play's dead at that point and we play on. Had the official ruled the puck was frozen plays dead we play on. Had he ruled the puck wasn't frozen or controlled by Miami, Michigan is going to the Frozen 4.

No system is foolproof, but there are better systems that what college hockey is using right now and it's time that the NCAA looks at using them.

[MUhawks628]

Re: Did the officials screw up

I will respond to your comments and concerns.

First, To avoid having the official stare at the monitor for 5 minutes, have an off ice replay official like football does. Only the replay official reviews the play.

So we can watch everyone stand around while someone who we can't see stares at a monitor for five minutes. I don't see the difference, replay in college football this year was an absolute joke.

I guess I just don't understand what the uproar here is about. This happens every year in the Stanley Cup playoffs. It happens all the time in the regular season games at all levels. It is part of the game. Have all the Michigan people on here up in arms about this really never had this happen to one of their hockey teams before?

[streaker]

Re: Did the officials screw up

So we can watch everyone stand around while someone who we can't see stares at a monitor for five minutes. I don't see the difference, replay in college football this year was an absolute joke.

I guess I just don't understand what the uproar here is about. This happens every year in the Stanley Cup playoffs. It happens all the time in the regular season games at all levels. It is part of the game. Have all the Michigan people on here up in arms about this really never had this happen to one of their hockey teams before?

I think the frustration is in the fact that it is happening more frequently now and is dismissed as "part of the game". It shouldn't be. Both teams worked extremely hard and deserved a fair outcome without grievous officiating errors, which is all we are asking for. And yes, it has happened to Michigan- several times- once at MSU this season, and once last season at Yost against ND. Both occasions cost Michigan in that they would have tied the game in the last minute. The stakes were a little higher in this example, and I'm sure that you'd be less righteous and dismissive if it happened to Miami. What if they had allowed the goal? Would Miami fans be howling about how they allowed it after the whistle? What about the second Miami goal where the puck appeared to be held? Why not a presumed whistle there (maybe because he was in the proper position?)

And FTR, this same official has had similar incidents (one with Maine that I am aware of) where he has altered the outcome of a game by his incompetence.

And yes, the NHL isn't immune to it, either, especially with the asinine "the play is dead in my mind" caveat. Detroit has been victimized several times including a blatant miscall this season. Again, with several officials on the ice, I can't fathom how they lose sight of the puck or are not consistent in the time allowance in blowing a play dead. There should be a way to remedy it, even if video replay is not the answer. Afterall, the question is one of judgment and not as much about proof. The only question was whether the puck crossed the line before the whistle. It didn't. Case closed. Doesn't mean the right judgment was made, though, which is why there is an "uproar".