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  • #31
    Re: Did the officials screw up

    Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
    Got mine on right now. Game worn!
    I'm sorry.
    Never really developed a taste for tequila. Kind of hard to understand how you make a drink out of something that sharp, inhospitable. Now, bourbon is easy to understand.
    Tastes like a warm summer day. -Raylan Givens

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    • #32
      Re: Did the officials screw up

      Not about anything specific from tonight's game, this just seems like a good a place as any to throw out my idea on the general subject.

      I think there's lots of room for improvement in this area. First of all, I'd like to see a change to the "intent to blow the whistle" rule where it doesn't apply in situations where the ref only intended to blow the whistle because they weren't in a good position to see the puck. I've always felt the spirit of the rule was to prevent players trying to shove a puck that's been frozen into the net before the whistle blows (and to a lesser extent, things like when a ref falls down and can't get to his whistle), and should not be applicable to these kinds of situations.

      Also, I think refs tend to be way too trigger-happy about blowing the play dead when they lose sight of the puck. They've got four sets of eyes out there, use them. There has to be something they can do where the decision to blow the play dead isn't solely on the shoulders of one ref, especially when so many goals are being nullified as a result of the play being blown dead prematurely.

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      • #33
        Re: Did the officials screw up

        Originally posted by Gurtholfin View Post
        I pretty much blame the Susans for today's crap-fest of an afternoon game. BC-UND would have been great and like you said, if UND would've showed, they'd be going to Detwat in two weeks.
        As happy as I was to see thier now yearly crash and burn I was shocked by it. They were a much better team than the one that played Yale. Buckys all thats left SIGH

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        • #34
          Re: Did the officials screw up

          Originally posted by chapmaja View Post
          What is the rule on a delayed penalty call? Is the whistle blown when the puck is touched by the offending team or is when the offending team controls the puck? The puck apparently was touched, but not controlled by Miami before Michigan knocked it in the net.
          Rule 4-9:

          b. If an infraction of the rules calling for a minor, bench minor, major or disqualification penalty is committed by a player of the team not in possession of the puck, the appropriate on-ice official shall signal the calling of a penalty and immediately upon completion of the play by the team in possession, blow the whistle and the penalty shall be assessed by a referee.
          If the penalty or penalties to be imposed are minor penalties (while the teams are at equal strength) and a goal is scored on the play by the non- offending team, the first minor penalty shall not be imposed. However, all other infractions shall be imposed in the normal manner, regardless of whether a goal is scored. If any other penalties are committed on the same play or after the appropriate on-ice official has stopped play, the offending players shall be penalized (see 4-2-d).
          If, after the referee has signaled a penalty (but before the whistle has been blown), the puck enters the goal of the non-offending team as the direct result of the action of a player of that team, the goal shall be allowed and the penalty signaled shall be assessed.

          c. The appropriate on-ice official shall use a “delayed whistle” when a foul is committed against the team in possession of the puck, thereby postponing the stoppage of play until the offending team shall have possession and control of the puck.
          The last player to control the puck, other than the goalkeeper, is the last player to be deemed in possession of the puck. Control of the puck is defined as the act of propelling the puck with the stick, hand or skate.
          Possession and control is not a rebound off the goalkeeper, an opposing player, the goal or the boards or any incidental contact with the body or equipment of an opposing player.
          Batting the puck with the hand or kicking the puck is considered to be controlling the puck. Touching the puck (e.g., poke check or deflection) is not considered control of the puck.
          During a delayed penalty, a goal may not be scored by the penalized team as a result of a deflection off of a penalized team player.
          I think this torpedos the idea that the referee was justified in blowing the whistle because Miami gained possession. The way the rule is defined, they did not have possession. He must have blown the whistle because he thought that it was buried, and he was wrong.

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          • #35
            Re: Did the officials screw up

            Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post
            I'm gonna have to shower after saying this, but if UND simply showed up, they woulda made some serious noise. They completely overlooked Yale, crapped the bed, choose your cliche. They are a better team than they showed this weekend.

            No, I'm NOT taking anything away from Yale in that game. They worked hard for that win, and it showed.
            Some collective WCHA-itis here. I felt the same way about Denver, whom I was following, failing to show up early against RIT, defense playing passively and out of position, then taking too many unscreened shots from up high with no players in tip position. In short, individual hockey with too much reliance on Cheverie to keep the puck out at the other end. All that said, props to RIT for how they played all weekend in Albany and good luck to a deserving Cinderella from Rochester. Badgers better show up or this scrappy team will carve another WCHA notch in its holster!

            Disappointed at the showing of the WCHA in the round of 16, but also too bad that the NCAA stuck 2 of the 4 WCHA entries in St. Paul to knock each other out (and ditto the 2 CCHA entries in Ft. Wayne, who played the tourney's best game so far and probably both deserved to go per the caliber of their play).

            I will root for a Miami-Badgers final. (I can now root at least a little for Badgers now that Jeff Sauer thug hockey is no longer played in Madison.) But Miami will be my horse in this race.

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            • #36
              Re: Did the officials screw up

              Originally posted by MichFan View Post
              He must have blown the whistle because he thought that it was buried, and he was wrong.
              I broadcast a lot of hockey on the radio, and used to get very upset when an official would blow the play dead when the puck was still loose. However, a few years ago, after talking to several officials about it, their response was, paraphrasing, "hey, if we can't see the puck, we can't see the puck!" Ever since, I've defended officials on quick/bad whistles where they are even slightly out of position. And I don't even think the referee was out of position, or had a quick whistle here. Just 2¢ from an unbiased observer.
              Current NCAA D-I rinks I've been to:

              AHA:
              B1G: UMinn, UWisc
              ECAC:
              HEA: UMass, Notre Dame
              NCHC: UMD, UND, SCSU, WMU
              WCHA: UAH, BSU, FSU, LSSU, MSU, MTU, NMU

              Inactive: BSU, UMD, UND, NMU, Notre Dame

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              • #37
                Re: Did the officials screw up

                No, no, no, no. Miami's second goal came after the puck was covered under Hunwick's right pad, and Cannone jammed his stick under the pad for the goal. they DIDNT blow the play dead then, so considering that the puck was NEVER COVERED in this case, it was NOT fair "relative to the officiating in the rest of the game"

                Originally posted by ExileOnDaytonStreet View Post
                What these guys said.

                Whether they lost sight of it, or felt that Knapp covered it, they had enough reason to blow it dead. Even if it wasn't the right call, it was fair relative to the officiating in the rest of the game. There were missed calls both ways. It happens all the time, and you have to play through it.

                To say it another way: You never lose in overtime by one call. You had 60 minutes to win the game, and you went to overtime. Anyone want to claim that Michigan didn't have any chancees to win in regulation? Is that one "missed" call the only reason they didn't win?

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                • #38
                  Re: Did the officials screw up

                  Originally posted by moose97 View Post
                  I broadcast a lot of hockey on the radio, and used to get very upset when an official would blow the play dead when the puck was still loose. However, a few years ago, after talking to several officials about it, their response was, paraphrasing, "hey, if we can't see the puck, we can't see the puck!" Ever since, I've defended officials on quick/bad whistles where they are even slightly out of position. And I don't even think the referee was out of position, or had a quick whistle here. Just 2¢ from an unbiased observer.
                  The onus is on the referee to be in the correct position to view the play. The entire play that is. While still a little upset of how that call went, it was the correct call to make... because he couldn't see the puck. Granted, he was standing on top of the friggin net for Miami's similar goal when Cannone poked it from under Hunwick's pads.

                  Whatever. He was in the corner and couldn't see the play. Had he been in the other corner, it's game over.

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                  • #39
                    Re: Did the officials screw up

                    Originally posted by moose97 View Post
                    I broadcast a lot of hockey on the radio, and used to get very upset when an official would blow the play dead when the puck was still loose. However, a few years ago, after talking to several officials about it, their response was, paraphrasing, "hey, if we can't see the puck, we can't see the puck!" Ever since, I've defended officials on quick/bad whistles where they are even slightly out of position. And I don't even think the referee was out of position, or had a quick whistle here. Just 2¢ from an unbiased observer.
                    The biggest problem I had with the whistle is that you could see just by the reactions of the Miami goalie and D-man that neither of them had any idea where the puck was, either. I know that a referee is supposed to blow it dead if they can't see the puck, but I'd have liked a little bit more patience when you can clearly see that the puck is not controlled by Miami.

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                    • #40
                      Re: Did the officials screw up

                      Originally posted by Brenthoven View Post

                      And do I have to bring up that alternate jersey you guys had, with Bucky? Google even thinks it's too ugly to have on their search. I KNOW you know what I'm talking about.
                      C'mon man... I love the two iterations of that third jersey, the white one we wore two years ago and the one from this year's College Hockey Showcase and Badger Hockey Showdown... But then again I'm a big fan of goofy third jerseys.

                      Anyway, the Miami - UM game was crazy... Both teams had 60 minutes to win it, and I thought Michigan had it in the first OT, but Miami came through with good energy right away in the 2nd OT and, when it was all said and done the #1 seed won.
                      Wisconsin Hockey is life... Everything else is just filler.

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                      • #41
                        Re: Did the officials screw up

                        Originally posted by kdilks View Post
                        They've got four sets of eyes out there, use them. There has to be something they can do where the decision to blow the play dead isn't solely on the shoulders of one ref, especially when so many goals are being nullified as a result of the play being blown dead prematurely.
                        While you're probably correct, how would this work from a mechanics standpoint? In other words, how would one of the other 3 sets of eyes communicate "the puck is not covered" to the ref on the goal line in the split second before he blows his whistle? Especially since the other pairs of eyes aren't always following the puck but watching for infractions away from the play.

                        To the extent the other refs can yell "LOOSE!!!" - it helps but is hardly a foolproof system And they should be doing that already - if my beer league refs do that, so can NCAA refs.

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                        • #42
                          Re: Did the officials screw up

                          Here's a good example of a goal that was disallowed that should have counted. The ref is in good position to see the puck. It's under the goalie's pad, but, as the overhead view shows, it's not frozen and still moving toward the goal line. That's why the ref didn't blow the whistle. The MTU players see this, too, and continue poking at the puck. Zajac knocks the puck in and the ref who's right on top of the play signals a goal.

                          But the goal was disallowed because the ref said he blew his whistle, even though it's obvious he didn't. Very bizarre call.

                          ******* width="480" height="385">****** name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/8r7R0hnQYoE&hl=en_US&fs=1&">****** name="allowFullScreen" value="true">****** name="allowscriptaccess" value="always">****** src="http://www.youtube.com/v/8r7R0hnQYoE&hl=en_US&fs=1&" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385">
                          Who decided that we needed both North and South Dakota? It seems like a lot of wasted paperwork to me. -- Creed Bratton

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                          • #43
                            Re: Did the officials screw up

                            The question here is what constitutes possession of the puck? There was a delayed penalty being called. On the flip side of what happened, what if Knapp had the puck and the ref doesn't blow the whistle, allowing guys to hack away and knock the puck in? He lost sight of the puck and from his view it appeared Knapp had the puck...you can't wait forever. Tough call to make either way.

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                            • #44
                              Re: Did the officials screw up

                              Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                              The question here is what constitutes possession of the puck? There was a delayed penalty being called. On the flip side of what happened, what if Knapp had the puck and the ref doesn't blow the whistle, allowing guys to hack away and knock the puck in? He lost sight of the puck and from his view it appeared Knapp had the puck...you can't wait forever. Tough call to make either way.
                              A lot of this has to do with protecting the player that a lot of people will argue is one of the most valuable on the ice. It's like the questionable flags for roughing the passer in football; where do you draw the line between protecting the goalie and blowing the whistle too soon.

                              It's a debate we'll continue to have.
                              I haven't been on here in a year...
                              Now I'm a dad. Holy crap.

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                              • #45
                                Re: Did the officials screw up

                                well part of what's frustrating is that it didn't really appear Knapp had the puck -- Knapp was looking around for the puck and clearly had no idea where the puck was.

                                Originally posted by J.D. View Post
                                The question here is what constitutes possession of the puck? There was a delayed penalty being called. On the flip side of what happened, what if Knapp had the puck and the ref doesn't blow the whistle, allowing guys to hack away and knock the puck in? He lost sight of the puck and from his view it appeared Knapp had the puck...you can't wait forever. Tough call to make either way.

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