NCAA is Missing the Boat

[RedFreak]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

You can have full buildings and not give unworthy teams home ice -- play the first two rounds at top seeds. If that means a #16 small school has to deal with 12k screaming #1 big school fans, so be it. If that means a #16 big school has to deal with 4k screaming #1 small school fans, so be it.

I agree. Chalk the regionals up as a noble experiment that didn't work out. No shame in that.

[AMcoffee]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

Is there a body who prescribes minimum ticket prices for the hockey tournament regionals ?

Would they be the same body who has allowed the Detroit organizers to market the $ 40 package, whist the subscriber base pays four times as much to enter the same venue ?

Just curious.

[alfablue]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

You can have full buildings and not give unworthy teams home ice -- play the first two rounds at top seeds. If that means a #16 small school has to deal with 12k screaming #1 big school fans, so be it. If that means a #16 big school has to deal with 4k screaming #1 small school fans, so be it.

I'm sure we can all deal with that.

Except for possibly the host schools.... I think you need more than a week to plan for an event like that. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot of work to find worthy hotels for 3 other teams (well 2 more than normal).

And you do need to make sure there are "enough" seats for each team. 500/team isn't a big deal in a place like the Schott, but is where the rink only holds 4000 fans.

Still, considering the issues, that should be workable.

[RedFreak]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I'm sure we can all deal with that.

Except for possibly the host schools.... I think you need more than a week to plan for an event like that. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot of work to find worthy hotels for 3 other teams (well 2 more than normal).

And you do need to make sure there are "enough" seats for each team. 500/team isn't a big deal in a place like the Schott, but is where the rink only holds 4000 fans.

Still, considering the issues, that should be workable.

Nah, bottom eight travel to the top eight barns.

[Priceless]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I posted this in response to a post over in the 2 sites thread...

You have a point, but the NCAA knows what they WANT attendance to be while the arena people know how to maximize attendance. There are solutions to these problems with varying degrees of difficulty and results. The NCAA would be foolish not to examine these solutions. I think a lot of people on this site are also biased because they have seen the NCAA take foolish steps before, so expectations aren't very high.

The quick and easy fix is the price point. All seats are not created equal. Some people can afford center ice seats so let them buy them. For the Hockey East playoffs you could drop $42 for tickets in the Loge down to $19 for nosebleed seats. The NCAA wants to sell those nosebleeds for the same price as center ice. Different price tiers for different sections of the arena is really easy to do and would boost attendance (and increase profitability). Many people - particularly college students - can't afford $90 seats but will be happy to drop (for example) $30 for nosebleeds.

Another fix would be to drop the seating requirement. Look again at those %capacity numbers. Worcester managed the best day at a whopping 44%. Albany couldn't even crack 30% despite two local schools and one of the top two traveling fanbases in the East. Stop booking 14000 seat arenas for regionals. I'll go out on a limb and say the regional in the 19000+ seat Scottrade Center in St Louis will be a disaster. If Miami/Michigan drew THAT small a crowd 2 hours from the campuses of both schools, how big a crowd are they really going to draw in St Louis - especially if they price all 19000 seats the same and set the price ridiculously high?

They should look at using campus sites in the East like they have out West. They can still go to Manchester and Bridgeport, but Conte Forum would make a great host. Seating isn't so great at Agganis, but a lack of seats at regionals hasn't exactly been a problem. Worcester might work. Albany has to go. Attendance there is always abysmal. Going back to having the #1 seeds host probably won't work, and the sport has grown beyond that. It's not big enough yet to support huge arenas. Using more centralized hosts to the massive Boston market would help the sport tremendously, with trips to other areas to help the sport grow. Maybe one day the sport can support AHL arenas but that day has not arrived yet.

A radical solution would be the 3-day/8-team regional. There are some logistical problems, but those can be overcome. Hopefully our sport has progressed to the point where we can support four regionals instead of two, but the first two matters must be addressed.

The attendance #'s referenced above:

Day	Site		Attendance	Capacity	% Cap
Fri	Albany		4073		14236		28.61%
Sat	Albany		3737		14236		26.25%
Sat	Worcester	6572		14800		44.41%
Sun	Worcester	6054		14800		40.91%
Fri	St Paul		7281		18568		39.21%
Sat	St Paul		7182		18568		38.68%
Sat	Ft Wayne	4133		10500		39.36%
Sun	Ft Wayne	3204		10500		30.51%

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

All you nancies coming up with clever things like "NC$$", who's supposed to pay for it? Honest question. Clearly nothing makes money except for the basketball tournament on whose coattails just about every other sport rides.

This is NOT true.

And personally, I'm getting tired of this misperception. The hockey tournament, the last time numbers were released, was the second highest profit making tournament for the NCAA. Granted, it pales to what the BB tourney makes, and you're right, everybody else pretty much rides the BB coattails, but hockey does turn a profit. And has for a long time.

The wrestling tournament also turns a profit, as does the Swimming and Diving national championship event. And I want to say I recently heard another sport's championship is starting to go in the black, but I can't remember which one.

[Russell Jaslow]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

Is there a body who prescribes minimum ticket prices for the hockey tournament regionals ?

Would they be the same body who has allowed the Detroit organizers to market the $ 40 package, whist the subscriber base pays four times as much to enter the same venue ?

Just curious.

I sure hope those $40 seats are essentially worthless seats so far away you may as well watch from home. Because I'm going to be p*ss*d if those seats are no worse off than the $189 seats I paid for!

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I'm sure we can all deal with that.

Except for possibly the host schools.... I think you need more than a week to plan for an event like that. I could be wrong, but it seems like a lot of work to find worthy hotels for 3 other teams (well 2 more than normal).

And you do need to make sure there are "enough" seats for each team. 500/team isn't a big deal in a place like the Schott, but is where the rink only holds 4000 fans.

Still, considering the issues, that should be workable.

Even if the school itself doesn't have the capacity, I'm sure there's a nearby facility that would be able to provide appropriate capacity. Albany would be good if RPI or Union is 1-4. Xcel if it's Minnesota. Possibly an exception to this would be Clarkson/SLU should they make it to #1-4 again, as the nearest large rink is in Canada (or they could use Lake Placid, but it's still a decent length trip). That way, you have the best of both worlds. It's neutral, but still close enough that you get a good amount of fans.

[BeloBrasil]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I have to agree with all that has been espoused in this thread about this past weekend's NCAA regionals. I was at all three (3) games this weekend in Worcester and the atmosphere could best be described as languid. No energy, no buzz, and the place was as "quiet as a church mouse" during both of Saturday's games.

In defense of the format I do very much like the sites chosen for the Northeast Regionals. The venue alternates between the Verizon Wireless Center in Manchester, New Hampshire and the D.C.U. Center in Worcester, MA. Both arenas have decent seating capacity and both are in small cities where there are plenty of places to sleep, park, and eat on the cheap. I think most people coming in for the weekend would prefer cities where accommodations, parking, and meals are reasonable as opposed to paying through the nose in an overpriced locale like Boston.

Now, as for some proposed changes I would submit the following:

1. Let's keep the regionals a wholly geographical affair. Looking at the teams participating in this year's tourney you could have placed Boston College, UNH, Vermont, and Yale all in Worcester, MA. Having Alaska-Fairbanks and North Dakota play in northeast is a joke. Very few fans for those two (2) programs and no band for either team. Granted, the purist in me likes to see some variety in the teams appearing, but I would forgo variety and seeding for the palpable buzz that say a UNH vs. BC final may have brought. Yale and BC had by far the most fans in attendance this week. Throw in the UNH and Vermont fans and I say you bang out the DCU Center!

2. Unbundle the ticket sales! I am not sure if this has already been done, but if it has not let us for once and for all finally do away with any requirement of having to buy both days and let the consumer pick and choose what day he or she wants to attend. I would NOT however, have separate admissions for the first day. I think most like the back-to-back game format so let's not return to the bad ole days of separate admissions.

3. LIGHTEN UP NCAA. I remember attending a regional a few years back and the NCAA ordering the B.U. Band to remove its highly offensive "B.U. Dog Pound" banner. Someone else on this thread said something about the NCAA not allowing a couple of kids to bring their thunder sticks in to the Fort Wayne venue. I certainly understand the greater good trying to be served here, but the dwindling attendance at these regionals should be an indication to the NCAA that they are smothering the life energy right out of the game what with their parens patrie approach to managing fan behavior.

4. Consider (possibly) some on campus sites at some of college hockey's high capacity venues. Here in the northeast I could think of several college venues that might serve nicely as possible venues. Boston University's Agannis Arena, UMass-Lowell's Tsongas Center, UMass Amherst's Mullins Center, UNH's Wittemore Center, and Quinnipiac University's TD Bank Sports Center. None of these venues have the capacity of the sites currently in use, but if the regionals are only attracting 6,000 or so people then why not choose some cozier venues so there are not so many embarrassingly empty seats.

5. Say "So long" to world wide leader in sports entertainment! The NCAA should send ESPN packing. They pay short shrift to college hockey during the regular season so why pray tell do they get to broadcast the NCAA playoffs? I say let the CBS College Sport Network broadcast the games. They do a great job during the season and they would do a far better job than ESPN! Sure, we would still have the interminable television timeouts, but at least those watching at home would be feted to a quality broadcast by a network that actually cares about the game. Granted they might be busy with that "other" tournament ongoing at the same time, but those games are shown on their main network and not their college sports dedicated network so I think it would work.

Well that's my "two cents" on the subject. Perhaps someone at the NCAA actually reads these posts and might take notice!

[alfablue]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

5. Say "So long" to world wide leader in sports entertainment! The NCAA should send ESPN packing. They pay short shrift to college hockey during the regular season so why pray tell do they get to broadcast the NCAA playoffs? I say let the CBS College Sport Network broadcast the games. They do a great job during the season and they would do a far better job than ESPN! Sure, we would still have the interminable television timeouts, but at least those watching at home would be feted to a quality broadcast by a network that actually cares about the game. Granted they might be busy with that "other" tournament ongoing at the same time, but those games are shown on their main network and not their college sports dedicated network so I think it would work.

One thing about that- for at least one of the regionals, ESPN may have been the "host" but the crew were all from somewhere else- the midwest team was on Comcast a number of times. It's not all ESPN that's doing a bad job- it's that there's a rather shallow pool available to them. FSN isn't going to let their team play with ESPN.

Fox Sports is generally who are the best out west, and who broadcast the most collegate games.

Besides, before- it was just syndication, and you would be lucky to see other regionals. At leat now, IF you have the U, you could stream the games... Not perfect, but nationally, better than before. Just not great in some small regions.

[Priceless]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

5. Say "So long" to world wide leader in sports entertainment! The NCAA should send ESPN packing. They pay short shrift to college hockey during the regular season so why pray tell do they get to broadcast the NCAA playoffs? I say let the CBS College Sport Network broadcast the games. They do a great job during the season and they would do a far better job than ESPN! Sure, we would still have the interminable television timeouts, but at least those watching at home would be feted to a quality broadcast by a network that actually cares about the game. Granted they might be busy with that "other" tournament ongoing at the same time, but those games are shown on their main network and not their college sports dedicated network so I think it would work.

The NCAA forces ESPN to televise hockey, as well as baseball, soccer, lax etc as part of their agreement for hoops. That's why ESPN is able to tell Gonzaga to play at 9pm local time on a school night. If the NCAA ever told ESPN that they didn't have to televise the hockey tournament, they'd drop us like the plague and air poker in its place. They get higher ratings broadcasting a six-year old poker tournament than college hockey anyway.

All 12 regional games were televised; 8 live on ESPNU. The others were picked up live on other networks or tape delayed on the U. The reason they chose the U (aside from the lousy ratings) was to get you to call your provider and either 1) upgrade to a package that includes the U or 2) make the channel available for purchase if it isn't already.

[RedFreak]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

Besides, before- it was just syndication, and you would be lucky to see other regionals. At leat now, IF you have the U, you could stream the games... Not perfect, but nationally, better than before. Just not great in some small regions.

I have been able to watch most regional games the last several years with my Charter Expanded Basic package at home in Madison, WI. This year? Nadda. Zippo. Squat.

[alfablue]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

I have been able to watch most regional games the last several years with my Charter Expanded Basic package at home in Madison, WI. This year? Nadda. Zippo. Squat.

I know there are exceptions, but still, before, TBA would never have seen a single game in SoCal, and now IF he had the right ESPN thing, he would.

There are a bunch here in SE MI who are also having issues...

Charter and ESPN need to talk better to each other.

[Hobbit]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

The only problem I had was the price of a ticket. The tickets for the West region games were $52, which is a lot when you already have to drive four hours to get to the game. I don't understand why they were so high. I think if the ticket prices drop to 30/35 a lot more local people show up to the game, which would make the overall experience better instead of only having 7k in a place that seats 18k. How was the attendence in the other regions? I really thought SCSU would have a student section...they had about 20 fans below there band. I was surprised by the lack of SCSU students. Overall my experience was great, which probably has to do with UW going to the frozen four.

Agree! We headed down to the X for the final game (I'm a gopher fan, my buddy a bucky fan) to see if we could score tickets. There were plenty of people that would have been willing to spend $30-$35 that just went to the bars/home to see the game. The attendance for the final was around 7k...pretty sad for one of the best hockey venues in the country.

I'm sure there is a price point for max revenue...and I am willing to bet it was a good deal less than $52. Sell tix $30/35, bump attendance to around 10-12k, and sell lots of concessions.

[Stauber1]

Re: NCAA is Missing the Boat

It's somewhat funny to me that so many are suggesting bringing regionals to a school's home rink. This has happened numerous times in the past for the west and midwest regionals, and is always met with heavy criticism from the visiting schools. So now the NCAA has said it won't ever happen again, and everybody wants to go back to it

Personally, I like having regionals on-campus. Yes, there is an advantage, but it gets shuffled around and can hurt a team one year and help the same team another year. And the atmosphere is better.

Ultimately though, I think the easy answer is to reduce the cost. Paying $50 for a game is just too much. Plain and simple. Get some cheaper ticket options and attendance will go up, more students will be there, and the atmosphere will be much much better.