Show me the money--Players turning pro

[Osorojo]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

If you wish, you can find these exact figures on the internet if you wish to spend the time tracking them down. I am trying to save you the trouble, as I've seen enough of them to know that my figures are pretty close to actual.

The "big" programs in college hockey also graduate players well. While the Ivies may be highest at 90-100% graduation rates, the major hockey powers tend to graduate 75+%, which is still very healthy, and tends to be above their all-student graduation rates. The net-net of all this is that college hockey has a very healthy balance of academics and hockey, unlike some of the larger NCAA sports.

For example, my school, Denver, was ranked #1 or #2 most of the season on the ice with 13 NHL draft picks. You might think these guys wouldn't care about school, but that's simply not the case. DU had 19 of its 21 eligible players (freshmen aren't eligible for all WCHA academic honors) above a 3.0 for all WCHA academic honors (broke a league record, also set by Denver last year with 17), and about 5 of them above a 3.5 GPA. They aren't majoring in corporate fitness, either. Almost all of them were in the College of Business, which is no easy picnic academically. Not all major hockey powers have this kind of academic emphasis, but college hockey schools are not churning out functional illiterates, either. Colleges graduate players that are well prepared for life after hockey, and turn out student-athletes who can compete very well in all areas.

The overall point here is that if you want to find athletes who are in academic trouble, you won't find very many of them in college hockey. We're doing fine in the classroom.

Glad to hear that Denver U. is doing the right thing. I searched the net for graduation rates of college athletes and hockey players in particular, and I searched for recent numbers of cases of academic inelegibility or academic probation levied on college athletes in general and hockey players in particular. This information is not readily available. I would like to see a URL
relevent to this issue. I don't remember any academic inelegibility cases being mentioned on this forum or USCHO news? Are Division I college hockey players still subject to academic suspension? If so, how often does this happen, and where?
The NCAA is understandably reluctant to release such information, perhaps because of the small rather than the large number of cases. Even the most rabid fan would find it hard to believe today's athletes are so much smarter and study so much harder than athletes in the past that academic inelegibility has simply vanished.

[Puck Swami]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

The 80 % graduation rate, does that refer to Division I hockey players? Does that graduation rate apply to the winningest Division I hocky programs, or does it include the graduation rate of all college hockey players in all divisions of college hockey?
When using specific statistics it's imperative to identify the specific population to which the statistics refer. Otherwise you expose yourself to charges you are attempting to deceive your audience, or you are relying upon an uneducated audience to decieve itself at your urging.

If you wish, you can find these exact figures on the internet if you wish to spend the time tracking them down. I am trying to save you the trouble, as I've seen enough of them to know that my figures are pretty close to actual.

The "big" programs in college hockey also graduate players well. While the Ivies may be highest at 90-100% graduation rates, the major hockey powers tend to graduate 75+%, which is still very healthy, and tends to be above their all-student graduation rates. The net-net of all this is that college hockey has a very healthy balance of academics and hockey, unlike some of the larger NCAA sports.

For example, my school, Denver, was ranked #1 or #2 most of the season on the ice with 13 NHL draft picks. You might think these guys wouldn't care about school, but that's simply not the case. DU had 19 of its 21 eligible players (freshmen aren't eligible for all WCHA academic honors) above a 3.0 for all WCHA academic honors (broke a league record, also set by Denver last year with 17), and about 5 of them above a 3.5 GPA. They aren't majoring in corporate fitness, either. Almost all of them were in the College of Business, which is no easy picnic academically. Not all major hockey powers have this kind of academic emphasis, but college hockey schools are not churning out functional illiterates, either. Colleges graduate players that are well prepared for life after hockey, and turn out student-athletes who can compete very well in all areas.

The overall point here is that if you want to find athletes who are in academic trouble, you won't find very many of them in college hockey. We're doing fine in the classroom.

[SCSU Euro]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

Rumors abound that All WCHA, CHN All American, Poty (WCHA, CHN) Goalie of the year (INCH) Junior Marc Cheverie will also go pro. Chevy, a Florida draft pick, could take advantage of the "Wheeler Rule" (4 years since being drafted) and become a free agent this summer.
Wait and see. Pins and needles.

Tell him to sign with the Kings! I'd make him our backup for the playoff run TODAY.

[TimU]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

The 80 % graduation rate, does that refer to Division I hockey players? Does that graduation rate apply to the winningest Division I hocky programs, or does it include the graduation rate of all college hockey players in all divisions of college hockey?
When using specific statistics it's imperative to identify the specific population to which the statistics refer. Otherwise you expose yourself to charges you are attempting to deceive your audience, or you are relying upon an uneducated audience to decieve itself at your urging.

The point was it is significantly different than some other major college sports.

[gscott13]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

Zach Cohen from BU signed with the Avalanche (and is being sent to Lake Erie).

BU West.

uscho front page is reporting both colby cohen and shattenkirk signing with the avs, and being sent to lake erie

[Osorojo]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

College hockey graduates about 80% of its players, and I would imagine that of the 20% who don't graduate on time, probably 25% of them will finish their degrees at some point, for a total graduation rate of close to 85%. The other 15% who never get a degree are probably about split between those who will financially set from hockey and don't need the degree, and perhaps 7 or 8% overall who never graduate and may have a tougher life and limited opportunities as a result. All in all, a pretty small number of 'damaged' players compared to football and basketball, where you are starting off with much lower graduation rates and many players who were unprepared for college level work in the first place.

The 80 % graduation rate, does that refer to Division I hockey players? Does that graduation rate apply to the winningest Division I hocky programs, or does it include the graduation rate of all college hockey players in all divisions of college hockey?
When using specific statistics it's imperative to identify the specific population to which the statistics refer. Otherwise you expose yourself to charges you are attempting to deceive your audience, or you are relying upon an uneducated audience to decieve itself at your urging.

[Puck Swami]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

I am new to the men's side of the forum but was looking at the info about Weirchoch & Colburne leaving DU. DU fans knew Rhett and Tyler would be gone as they are seniors and congrats to both of them for graduating. My question is this...has anyone ever done research into how many of these guys who leave college early to pursue a pro career ever really go back to school and get their degree? I heard alot of you say "they can build a nest egg and go back later" or "NHL is once in a lifetime, they can go back to college later" but do they?

College hockey graduates about 80% of its players, and I would imagine that of the 20% who don't graduate on time, probably 25% of them will finish their degrees at some point, for a total graduation rate of close to 85%. The other 15% who never get a degree are probably about split between those who will financially set from hockey and don't need the degree, and perhaps 7 or 8% overall who never graduate and may have a tougher life and limited opportunities as a result. All in all, a pretty small number of 'damaged' players compared to football and basketball, where you are starting off with much lower graduation rates and many players who were unprepared for college level work in the first place.

[Got 6, Want More]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

Brandon Bollig left SLU after 2 years to sign a 2-year deal with the Blackhawks. He also signed an ATO with Rockford to finish this season out.

[Happy]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

I am new to the men's side of the forum but was looking at the info about Weirchoch & Colburne leaving DU. DU fans knew Rhett and Tyler would be gone as they are seniors and congrats to both of them for graduating. My question is this...has anyone ever done research into how many of these guys who leave college early to pursue a pro career ever really go back to school and get their degree? I heard alot of you say "they can build a nest egg and go back later" or "NHL is once in a lifetime, they can go back to college later" but do they?

some do, and some don't, but the number that does is a thousand times higher than BB or FB.

[THE Icemom]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

I am new to the men's side of the forum but was looking at the info about Weirchoch & Colburne leaving DU. DU fans knew Rhett and Tyler would be gone as they are seniors and congrats to both of them for graduating. My question is this...has anyone ever done research into how many of these guys who leave college early to pursue a pro career ever really go back to school and get their degree? I heard alot of you say "they can build a nest egg and go back later" or "NHL is once in a lifetime, they can go back to college later" but do they?

[LynahFan]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

Happy's right. A lot of parents treat a pro signing as the return on their own investment of years of shuttling little Johnny to hockey tournaments all over North America.

Even so, to even play a game in the AHL is to be in the top .003% of global hockey players. Pretty select company, and at $60-70K or so a year, it's a better living then most of their classmates are making at that age.

Yes, Happy is right. The math is definitely not as much in favor if you don't know you're going to the Show. However, just as you have to factor in risk of getting injured while staying in college, you can also factor in some "anti-risk" of making that 1 in 100 shot of getting to the NHL. Wouldn't you go for a 1 in 100 shot at a million dollars, knowing that in those other 99 times you could still go back and get a college degree?

[Happy]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

Ryan Flynn signed with nashville

[Puck Swami]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

this works for the best talent, but for those just below that, it gets murkier. Especially if the player spends his rookie years in the AHL, getting the rookie AHL pay, that knocks a lot off your figures. The agents, and parents probably will push for the pros, because the agent doesn't get paid till a signing, and the parents sometimes have the ego.

Happy's right. A lot of parents treat a pro signing as the return on their own investment of years of shuttling little Johnny to hockey tournaments all over North America.

Even so, to even play a game in the AHL is to be in the top .003% of global hockey players. Pretty select company, and at $60-70K or so a year, it's a better living then most of their classmates are making at that age.

[Happy]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

Sandelin may be a great coach, but he's no economist.

Say you're a 20-year old stud finishing your freshman year who can sign for the rookie max (~900,000 for 3 years). Let's also say that your NHL career will be over at age 35 no matter whether you stay in college or not, and you turn out to be a solid, but not spectacular player, so your NHL salary is ~$1.5M for the years not covered by your entry level contract. Since you ARE an economist, you are frugal and invest 80% of your salary each year at 5% interest. If you jump for the NHL right away, your "nest egg" at retirement will be ~$23M. If you stay in school for 3 more years, your rookie contract will only be 1 year, but you'd only have 12 seasons above the rookie max instead of 13, plus you'd lose 2 years of income at the rookie max. By the time you retire going this route, your nest egg is only ~$18M, so staying in school for those 3 years cost you $5M.

Would you pay $5M to enjoy the "journey" of three years in college? I certainly wouldn't - that's equivalent to a tuition bill of $1.7M per year. There is absolutely no way you could convince me that is worth the price.

And this is BEFORE you factor in the injury risk from ~120 more games played and goodness knows how many practices (not to mention the pool parties!).

this works for the best talent, but for those just below that, it gets murkier. Especially if the player spends his rookie years in the AHL, getting the rookie AHL pay, that knocks a lot off your figures. The agents, and parents probably will push for the pros, because the agent doesn't get paid till a signing, and the parents sometimes have the ego.

[Puck Swami]

Re: Show me the money--Players turning pro

Denver has planned for all of these departures. It's a fact of life when you are recruiting and landing guys in the upper rounds of the NHL draft that most of them won't be staying around for four years.

I really don't mind players leaving early for the pros. College is a training ground for pros in all fields (as the NCAA reminds us) and if a player is good enough to get a pro offer in his chosen field, then by all means take it. You have your whole life to be a college student, but you don't have your whole life to be a pro hockey player. No one would bat an eye if a symphony orchestra offered a contract to a budding campus violinist to leave school, or a TV show offered a contract to a college actor to leave school or NASA offered a deal to a prodigy rocket scientist. These hockey players have trained hard their whole lives to be pro hockey players, and they are now in the top 1% of hockey players in the world if they get a pro offer. To put a finer point on this, there are about 1.5 million officially registered hockey players in the world (and a few million more unregistered ones, but we'll leave them out of this for now). There are about 6,000 pro hockey roster spots around the globe in full-time pro leagues, of which about 700 are NHL jobs.

Registered players in the world:

http://www.iihf.com/iihf-home/the-ii...f-players.html