Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

[Runninwiththedogs]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

Plus with 5 Minnesota based teams going forward, you would think the attendance will still be good as the local teams and alumni show up.

I'm unsure of these local teams to which you are referring. I've got UMTC, yes, and then... is Augsburg D-1 now? or St. Thomas?

His point is a valid one, though. If you travel to the regional, you are running the risk of seeing your team lose on the first day. If that happens, do you just say * it and leave? Or do you go to the other game(s)?

But the point is the regional and the Final Five are different things. We are talking about going from a Final Five with two guaranteed games to a Final Five without two guaranteed games. We are talking about a dropoff in attendance because of this change in the Final Five. The regional has nothing to do with it.

The consolation game is a meaningless game because neither team wins anything. When you play in the regulation, you play for a shot at the NCAA tournament, when you play in the Quarterfinals, you win a shot at the Final Five, when you play in the Play-In game, you win a shot at the Semifinals, when you play in the Semis, you win a chance at the title, and when you play in the Finals you win a chance at the Trophy.

However, you win nothing in the 3rd place game other than an unwarranted chance to boost your PWR standing. You didn't earn that shot to boost your PWR standing, so why should you get it?

Last year, UW winning the 3rd place game meant UMTC was knocked out of the NCAA tournament, so we all won that day.

This format sucks. The only solution I like is dumping Buttmidji and UNO out of the conference again.

[RedFreak]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

One thing I haven't seen explained, yet. I hope the league is not planning on including the Wild game in the tournament package.

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

One thing I haven't seen explained, yet. I hope the league is not planning on including the Wild game in the tournament package.

I don't think the Wild would do that to their season ticket holders. They will get their normal tickets and anyone that is at the Final 5 and wants to go to the Wild game would have to buy single game tickets.

How is this going to affect parking? How many people tailgating/drinking will the Final 5 attract next year, and is it enough to cause a parking shortage for a packed Wild game?

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

One thing I haven't seen explained, yet. I hope the league is not planning on including the Wild game in the tournament package.

There's no way they could do that. What do you do with people who have F5 tickets in other Wild season ticket holder's seats? If they make it part of the package who gets the seat and what do you do with the other person who wants to attend the game?

[bigblue_dl]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

There's no way they could do that. What do you do with people who have F5 tickets in other Wild season ticket holder's seats? If they make it part of the package who gets the seat and what do you do with the other person who wants to attend the game?

You just want your Final 5 seats for a Wild game!

[RedFreak]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

I agree, the only thing that makes sense is to make only open seats available to the Final 5 goers. But sense and WCHA don't always go hand in hand.

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

You just want your Final 5 seats for a Wild game!

I would not mind shouting obscenities to Sidney Crosby so that he could hear them.

[Bakunin]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

No game in which your team is playing is meaningless.

That's not the message I was getting from sconni fans after the regular season finale in which MN smoked them (wisconsin had nothing to play for, they'd locked up the #2 seed, and they were playing a backup goalie).

[The Rube]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

That "unwarranted chance to boost your PWR" are all some teams have while being a bubble team. While that "throw away" game may not mean much to a Wisconsin or Denver, Ferris State needed to win their third place game for a shot at making it.

Hell, had UMD beat UND, and lost in the semi-finals, they definitely could have used the third place game to posture themselves to not fall from the PWR.

Or Notre-Dame/Northern Michigan two years ago in the third place game, where a win or loss by Notre Dame put them into the Tourney. A tie to NMU would have eliminated ND.


If third place games are that useless, let's also eliminate them from holiday tournaments. They're also just "unwarranted chances at boosting your PWR" because you're not playing for a holiday tourney trophy.

Ok stat geeks, here's your mission: how many times out of the past 10 years has a conference tourney (not a holiday mini-tourney or anything) actually affected a team enough for the NCAA's?

I'd venture to guess not very often.

[Bonin]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

Wasn't there a time a handful of years back that losing the third place game actually knocked CC out of the NCAA tournament?

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

Wasn't there a time a handful of years back that losing the third place game actually knocked CC out of the NCAA tournament?

Yes, that game counted towards getting in or out.

[blockski]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

Ok stat geeks, here's your mission: how many times out of the past 10 years has a conference tourney (not a holiday mini-tourney or anything) actually affected a team enough for the NCAA's?

I'd venture to guess not very often.

Define "affected." We talking seeding or actually making the field? In 2006, UW's win over Minnesota in the third place game gave UW the #1 overall seed, ensuring that they were placed in the Green Bay regional and sending Minnesota to Grand Forks with a date against some sort of religious school... I'd say quite a few of them have affected seeding in the tournament.

[UMDSimmerdown]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

While I understand that those fans traveling to St. Paul run the risk of only seeing one game, that risk is already there in the old format for fans of the play-in teams. Are you suggesting that if your team was in the play-in game you wouldn't come because you weren't assured at least two games? That seems like a bandwagon argument to me. Support your team or don't, you shouldn't need incentives to make the trip.

The third place game is often meaningless, and as already pointed out it is rarely well-attended. I would also point out that if a team wins the play-in game but loses the semi-final, they have to play a third game with little to no value to them other than a possible PWR bump. If they are already in the tournament, I would bet most coaches would rather have the night off than risk fatigue and injury a week before the NCAAs, even if it does mean a better seed.

The new format is the same for the WCHA, they get 5 games worth of revenue. Plus, by expanding the number of fan bases involved, it is hopefully going to increase attendance. The drive from Nebraska-Omaha would suck, but for the first couple of years many of their fans may make the drive just to see the Final Five in person.

[Eaglefan06]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

That "unwarranted chance to boost your PWR" are all some teams have while being a bubble team. While that "throw away" game may not mean much to a Wisconsin or Denver, Ferris State needed to win their third place game for a shot at making it.

Hell, had UMD beat UND, and lost in the semi-finals, they definitely could have used the third place game to posture themselves to not fall from the PWR.

Or Notre-Dame/Northern Michigan two years ago in the third place game, where a win or loss by Notre Dame put them into the Tourney. A tie to NMU would have eliminated ND.


If third place games are that useless, let's also eliminate them from holiday tournaments. They're also just "unwarranted chances at boosting your PWR" because you're not playing for a holiday tourney trophy.

Roll your eyes all you want....the point of my post when WAY over your head.

Point is losing in the Semifinals should "earn" a team another game. You lose, your done playing, and if you don't get into the NCAAs its your fault for not winning when you needed too.

I would be willing to bet if there was a 3rd place game in the Hockey East tournament last year and BC won, they may have moved up the one spot they needed in the PWR and made the tournament. But they didn't because they lost in the Semifinals and didn't have anymore games....like it should be.

[Shirtless Guy]

Re: Format for 2011 WCHA final Five

Ok stat geeks, here's your mission: how many times out of the past 10 years has a conference tourney (not a holiday mini-tourney or anything) actually affected a team enough for the NCAA's?

I'd venture to guess not very often.

What are you trying to say? Ferris State didn't make the tournament this year because they lost twice, Duluth fell out of the top 14 because they lost to UND. There have been a few times where losing in the WCHA Final Five twice cost a team a spot.