Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

[tnlong]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

If you really think this boils down to petty attitudes regarding travel and geographical profiling, then you need a bottle and a nap. Just make sure you stomp your foot extra hard next time and the CCHA may change its mind. Keep pointing fingers and making up excuses. When is your institution going to take ownership of the situation and make their appeal more economically compelling to the CCHA? Why is it that they are the only team in the CHA looking for a home? Somehow I am missing the part where UAH shares some of the burden of responsibility here instead of being the poor abused victim of the hockey elite. Spare me the bleeding heart spin where the CCHA institutions are dastardly villains.

I like GF Morris' approach much better. Stop poking the stick at the dogs guarding the gate. The chances that they'll curry favor for you are greater that way.

No, I'm just realistic. And no, the CCHA institutions aren't dastardly villains. Human nature is to stay in your comfort zone and adhere only to a "how does this affect me?" approach. No, UAH is not a victim. It's just in an unfortunate situation. And no, the CCHA is highly unlikely to "curry favor" regardless of what UAH does or does not do as long as each institution can blame another and stay in their comfort zone. Reread your "need a bottle and a nap" comments and ask yourself how mature they are. Regarding "poking the stick at the dogs guarding the gate" do you actually think they waste their time with this dribble? I'm only wasting my time to entertain myself following shoulder surgery. Yes Douglas, I've got my arm strapped to my side until 14 April.

[streaker]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

After watching this circle around and around with everyone claiming to have sources which they can't divulge, I'll call bs. The "hockey elite" have the power to speak up, let their vote be known, and influence "what is right for college hockey". In absence of that, they are every bit as much of the problem as "the smaller schools". Plus, I think $ isn't as much of the real reason as just the "laziness" of not wanting to travel and the simple elitist attitude of "they shouldn't be playing hockey in Alabama".

If you really think this boils down to petty attitudes regarding travel and geographical profiling, then you need a bottle and a nap. Just make sure you stomp your foot extra hard next time and the CCHA may change its mind. Keep pointing fingers and making up excuses. When is your institution going to take ownership of the situation and make their appeal more economically compelling to the CCHA? Why is it that they are the only team in the CHA looking for a home? Somehow I am missing the part where UAH shares some of the burden of responsibility here instead of being the poor abused victim of the hockey elite. Spare me the bleeding heart spin where the CCHA institutions are dastardly villains.

I like GF Morris' approach much better. Stop poking the stick at the dogs guarding the gate. The chances that they'll curry favor for you are greater that way.

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Geof/Douglas,
Have you two considered using this approach? Just be the "second source" for each other when challenged on your inputs.

I prefer to use my mom for the second source.

GFM

Geof second sourced your mom last night. Oooh!

[tnlong]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

I'll call bs on that one. If we are going to circle back to this argument, it wasn't the "hockey elite" schools that had concerns about letting UAH in the CCHA. It was the smaller schools with tighter budgets that voiced concerns about entry. Keep propagating the bitter nonsense, especially since the door isn't closed. Instead, blame the body of institutions that make up the NCAA for their indifference towards what is right for college hockey.

After watching this circle around and around with everyone claiming to have sources which they can't divulge, I'll call bs. The "hockey elite" have the power to speak up, let their vote be known, and influence "what is right for college hockey". In absence of that, they are every bit as much of the problem as "the smaller schools". Plus, I think $ isn't as much of the real reason as just the "laziness" of not wanting to travel and the simple elitist attitude of "they shouldn't be playing hockey in Alabama".

[gfmorris]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Geof/Douglas,
Have you two considered using this approach? Just be the "second source" for each other when challenged on your inputs.

I prefer to use my mom for the second source.

GFM

[tnlong]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

I wish I could post for the record by who and when this information was given to me, but I can sort of be a second source for what streaker posted. In addition I have been led to believe that the schools in the CCHA are waiting to see how a few other things play out in the next season or two.

Geof/Douglas,
Have you two considered using this approach? Just be the "second source" for each other when challenged on your inputs.

[Alton]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

CCHA requires a 3/4 vote and with UNO not allowed to vote on the issue, it only takes four teams against to kill the measure.

Three teams, actually, since an 8-3 vote is less than 3/4.

All I can add to this discussion is that the vote to admit Nebraska-Omaha 10 years ago was 9-2, with Western Michigan and Lake Superior voting "no."

I infer, from the articles I have read, that it was clear during the League Meetings that there were 3 or more teams strongly opposed to admitting Alabama-Huntsville, and as a result the Directors never bothered to take a formal vote.

Who were those 3 or more teams? The people who know are keeping their mouths shut and/or trying to deflect the question. We will probably never know, but we can certainly guess that the vote was along the same lines as the one 10 years ago, with the smaller-budget CCHA teams more reluctant to expand.

[ChargerBlue]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Sorry, I'm not familiar.. sounds like they are not using a simple majority quorum versus a complete consensus, like in a jury trial situation.

Either way, I hope UAH finds a home whether in the CCHA or elsewhere.

CCHA requires a 3/4 vote and with UNO not allowed to vote on the issue, it only takes four teams against to kill the measure.

[streaker]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

That "whirring" sound you hear is Bo Schembechler spinning in his grave. No decision ever made him madder...

Well, it did eventually lead to the Big Ten allowing teams to go to other bowls, in 1975. I think Michigan went 50-4-1 from 1970 to 1974 (all blemishes to OSU) and never went to a bowl. That was why he was so mad. He never forgave MSU for it, either.

It isn't like potentially losing your program completely, though. I can empathize with UAH fans.

[streaker]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

There was only a voice vote of acclimation therefore there weren't actual votes cast period.

My theory is that Northern, Western, Ferris and Lake State would've voted no. That's all it took opposed for the measure to fail.

Sorry, I'm not familiar.. sounds like they are not using a simple majority quorum versus a complete consensus, like in a jury trial situation.

Either way, I hope UAH finds a home whether in the CCHA or elsewhere.

[Puck Swami]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Let me relate a quick story similar to this. The Michigan and Ohio State football teams played to a 10-10 tie in 1973. This game would decide the Big Ten Champion and Rose Bowl invitation. In that game Michigan's starting QB broke his collarbone and was lost for the season. The Big Ten had a rule that no other bowl games were allowed to be participated in. Both teams were undefeated and deserved the trip, although OSU had gone the previous year.

The Big Ten commissioner and his fellow AD's met to vote on who the Big Ten would send. Michigan felt confident that, based on their record and that OSU had gone the previous season, they would be voted in.

They weren't, and were voted down 5-4. The deciding vote was cast by the Michigan State AD, who allegedly, pledged to Michigan's AD at the time that he'd vote Michigan. He changed his vote due to the injury, not on the body of their work.

So take it for what it is worth. Stuff happens, and so does smoke filled back room politics.

That "whirring" sound you hear is Bo Schembechler spinning in his grave. No decision ever made him madder...

[ChargerBlue]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

When I presented my premise I was challenged because I could not prove how any specific CCHA team voted. I spelled out an explanation. Can you produce proof that Alaska and BGSU voted/supported in favor of UAH?

There was only a voice vote of acclimation therefore there weren't actual votes cast period.

My theory is that Northern, Western, Ferris and Lake State would've voted no. That's all it took opposed for the measure to fail.

[streaker]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

Alaska: All public commentary by AD Forrest Karr indicates that he was on our side. [1] Also, Karr, according to UAH officials that I won't name, was very much pro-UAH behind the scenes.

BGSU: Dennis Williams used to be an assistant here. He and Danton Cole have a good relationship. We'd know if they were against us, because Willie would be mad and would have let us know.

Past that, we're speculating. You can argue, streaker, that we're speculating on Alaska and BGSU, and that may well be true.

[1] http://saveuahhockey.com/2009/08/14/...olds-uah-back/

Thanks for the attachment. I don't see the endorsement, though. I see an explanation from Karr on what the overall concerns (amongst the CCHA) were with UAH. I think that was the least a rep for the CCHA could offer, which didn't pass the smell test for most outsiders. The last comment he made was standard political correctness.

I am sure that Karr was very positive and gave a good impression to the UAH officials, as a rep for the CCHA.

As for the BG angle, it is conjecture.


Let me relate a quick story similar to this. The Michigan and Ohio State football teams played to a 10-10 tie in 1973. This game would decide the Big Ten Champion and Rose Bowl invitation. In that game Michigan's starting QB broke his collarbone and was lost for the season. The Big Ten had a rule that no other bowl games were allowed to be participated in. Both teams were undefeated and deserved the trip, although OSU had gone the previous year.

The Big Ten commissioner and his fellow AD's met to vote on who the Big Ten would send. Michigan felt confident that, based on their record and that OSU had gone the previous season, they would be voted in.

They weren't, and were voted down 5-4. The deciding vote was cast by the Michigan State AD, who allegedly, pledged to Michigan's AD at the time that he'd vote Michigan. He changed his vote due to the injury, not on the body of their work.

So take it for what it is worth. Stuff happens, and so does smoke filled back room politics.

[Douglas]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

...Can you produce proof that Alaska and BGSU voted/supported in favor of UAH? At least support your statement with a theory instead of posing it as fact...

What Geof said is pretty much on the mark. Forrest Karr has publicly stated that he supported UAH's admission and he did work behind the scenes on our behalf. Anastos did not, unlike McLeod that with pressure and support went after UNO to make sure Bemidji could get in. Anymore than that and I would be divluging private information which I will not do. I was just trying to narrow down your list a little for you. Whether you believe me or not doesn't really matter to me.

As for your other statement; yes, I pretty much was supporting your explanation. What I was pointing out was that none of us were "thinking" in those solely economic terms. What seemed like a no brainer to us and one heck of a lot of others was that UAH for UNO was virtually an even swap as there was something like only 30 or 40 miles average travel difference plus they would be getting a travel subsidy and UAH simply takes over UNO's schedule. The collective "we" never even considered they wanted to eliminate the UNO trip. Bad on us no doubt.

[gfmorris]

Re: Who'd of thunk it - 2 CHA teams in the Big Skate

When I presented my premise I was challenged because I could not prove how any specific CCHA team voted. I spelled out an explanation. Can you produce proof that Alaska and BGSU voted/supported in favor of UAH?

Alaska: All public commentary by AD Forrest Karr indicates that he was on our side. [1] Also, Karr, according to UAH officials that I won't name, was very much pro-UAH behind the scenes.

BGSU: Dennis Williams used to be an assistant here. He and Danton Cole have a good relationship. We'd know if they were against us, because Willie would be mad and would have let us know.

Past that, we're speculating. You can argue, streaker, that we're speculating on Alaska and BGSU, and that may well be true.

[1] http://saveuahhockey.com/2009/08/14/...olds-uah-back/