RPI 2023-24 (Part II): The Search for Special Teams Excellence

[Ralph Baer]

Thanks to ehf for the thread title.

Old thread https://fanforum.uscho.com/forum/col...tting-it-right

[Ralph Baer]

you do realize Seth had a sub-.500 record too right?

and even in the ONE year the team made the NCAA’s, 1) they backed in after they lost to last place Brown at home in the first round of the ECAC playoffs and 2) got blown out by North Dakota in the aforementioned NCAA playoff game in a game that wasn’t that exciting.

Seth treated the Freakout as just another game and not the biggest game of the year, I think his teams maybe won one or two in his tenure, whereas his predecessor was 14-0 in Freakouts. Matt Murley, on the bench during the legendary Clarkson comeback, told his team “At RPI, we don’t lose Freakouts” and the rest was history.

but hey, at least Seth was a nice guy.

Seth also eliminated the Holiday Tourney, another escape from tradition. Now, it was indeed getting difficult to get quality opponents, but it was tradition which IMO is important in all aspects of a college.

[Ralph Baer]

One thought experiment I found more worthwhile is if Appert would have been more successful in the transfer portal era. The transfer portal generally hurts a school like RPI, but Apps was an excellent recruiter and I wonder if he would have succeeded in this environment if he were still in the college game. Can't guarantee that top talent would not have been plucked from him as well though. I bring this up because what held him back was teams directly after his most successful ones, where all the top scoring would graduate and the following team would be bad because it had no scoring. I.E, 11-12, 14-15. Perhaps he would have maintained his momentum if this were the case.

Seth was certainly an excellent recruiter in the early part of his tenure, but it seemed to me that he was going downhill. One can only guess how he would have dealt with the transfer portal. I think that he would have done better than Smith, but the portal would have still hurt us overall.

[AspyDad]

Seth also eliminated the Holiday Tourney, another escape from tradition. Now, it was indeed getting difficult to get quality opponents, but it was tradition which IMO is important in all aspects of a college.

To clarify, Seth did not cancel the Holiday tournament, that was Jim Knowlton. Jim did it after sponsorship of the event was lost from local companies. The tournament was also cost prohibitive because we had to pay for lodging, meals and travel for the three other teams. No one respected the traditions of the program more than Seth.

[AspyDad]

I think that he would have done better than Smith, but the portal would have still hurt us overall.

I agree with this. Look how he got Bailen from BG when there was talk of BG program going away. Bailen and Chase were the main drivers of us getting to NCAA tourney, plus Yorkie of course. He is also deeply involved in player personnel with the Amerks and they won the North Division last year, being one win from the Calder Cup final.

[DavidNardolillo]

To clarify, Seth did not cancel the Holiday tournament, that was Jim Knowlton. Jim did it after sponsorship of the event was lost from local companies. The tournament was also cost prohibitive because we had to pay for lodging, meals and travel for the three other teams. No one respected the traditions of the program more than Seth.

This jibes with my understanding of the Holiday Tournament issue as well, although there may have been some sort of budget direction from above and the Holiday Tournament might have been an easy sacrifice to meet targets.

[CMcGarvey]

Holiday tourneys have become less and less of a thing lately. Probably a cost cut for a lot of programs

[AspyDad]

I would also like to address Ralph's point about recruiting going down at the end under Seth. He recruited Burgess, Reilly, Gunnar Fontaine and Linden.Marshsll. I believe that the team that made the run with Savory had at its core at least on the skaters side were Seth's recruits.

[rpi82]

I would also like to address Ralph's point about recruiting going down at the end under Seth. He recruited Burgess, Reilly, Gunnar Fontaine and Linden.Marshsll. I believe that the team that made the run with Savory had at its core at least on the skaters side were Seth's recruits.

I know you love Seth and want to give him as much credit as possible, but if you go back and look at our recruiting pipeline when he was fired it's really bad. Outside of Marshall and Babichuk there was very little talent committed for the entering classes of 2017, 2018 and 2019. Here are the other committed names Seth left behind: Jonathan Bendorf, Matt Cameron, Austin Cho, Bailey Conger, Jacob Modry, Emil Ohrvall, Owen Stout and Atte Tuliara. Bendorf is the only one that came close to having even a moderately good D1 college career and that was at the Atlantic Hockey level. Modry and Conger finished their careers in D3. Cameron's entire career was 4 games for Niagara. Ohrvall and Stout played one year for us and then bounced around other colleges without establishing themselves. Cho and Tuiliara just vaporized. Seth's recruiting cupboard was incredibly bare.

Fontaine committed to the Engineers in 2018, nearly a year after Seth was fired. He also wasn't considered anywhere near the star of his prep team when we recruited him as a host of teammates already had Hockey East commitments (including both of his linemates). After he had his breakout season in the USHL the only way we'd have gotten him to Troy would be by joining HE.

As for the rest of the 19-20 team, I think you are unfairly underselling Smith's contributions. Certainly Reilly, Burgess and Polino were key upperclassmen that Seth brought in and he should be credited for that. However, Zeiky, the leading scorer, was brought in by Smith as was Savory the star goalie. Key forwards Linden, Gornall, Ashbrook, Leppanen and Dubinsky and the entire defense outside of Reilly and Babichuk were also Smith recruits.

[Ralph Baer]

To clarify, Seth did not cancel the Holiday tournament, that was Jim Knowlton. Jim did it after sponsorship of the event was lost from local companies. The tournament was also cost prohibitive because we had to pay for lodging, meals and travel for the three other teams. No one respected the traditions of the program more than Seth.

Out of curiosity, in what ways did Seth respect the traditions of the program?

[Wicked Slappaahs]

As a follow up to RB's earlier mention, former recruit Gunnarwolfe Fontaine scored the OT GWG for Northeastern in the Bean Pot last night....great game to watch. Also, former recruit Hunter MacDonald logged regular minutes for NE on the back end.......What could have been ! Ha ha

[CMcGarvey]

Interesting you bring up the recruits at that time. I honestly feel like a lot of them were better recruits than they turned out college players. Conger looks really good and went to Providence briefly so clearly he was talented. Ohrvall was cinsidered a good recruit. Owen stout and Modry were pretty decent at the time. Interesting that despite them never coming they never panned out to be good college players

[CMcGarvey]

I would also like to address Ralph's point about recruiting going down at the end under Seth. He recruited Burgess, Reilly, Gunnar Fontaine and Linden.Marshsll. I believe that the team that made the run with Savory had at its core at least on the skaters side were Seth's recruits.

Yeah Gunnar was a Dave commit as was Sarlo. In year 1 when Nolan and Jewell were there. Don’t think Linden is the greatest example to prove your point, probably Hayhurst or Polino are better examples.

[AspyDad]

I know you love Seth and want to give him as much credit as possible, but if you go back and look at our recruiting pipeline when he was fired it's really bad. Outside of Marshall and Babichuk there was very little talent committed for the entering classes of 2017, 2018 and 2019. Here are the other committed names Seth left behind: Jonathan Bendorf, Matt Cameron, Austin Cho, Bailey Conger, Jacob Modry, Emil Ohrvall, Owen Stout and Atte Tuliara. Bendorf is the only one that came close to having even a moderately good D1 college career and that was at the Atlantic Hockey level. Modry and Conger finished their careers in D3. Cameron's entire career was 4 games for Niagara. Ohrvall and Stout played one year for us and then bounced around other colleges without establishing themselves. Cho and Tuiliara just vaporized. Seth's recruiting cupboard was incredibly bare.

Fontaine committed to the Engineers in 2018, nearly a year after Seth was fired. He also wasn't considered anywhere near the star of his prep team when we recruited him as a host of teammates already had Hockey East commitments (including both of his linemates). After he had his breakout season in the USHL the only way we'd have gotten him to Troy would be by joining HE.

As for the rest of the 19-20 team, I think you are unfairly underselling Smith's contributions. Certainly Reilly, Burgess and Polino were key upperclassmen that Seth brought in and he should be credited for that. However, Zeiky, the leading scorer, was brought in by Smith as was Savory the star goalie. Key forwards Linden, Gornall, Ashbrook, Leppanen and Dubinsky and the entire defense outside of Reilly and Babichuk were also Smith recruits.

Thanks for taking so much time to dissect my posts. It's not even close between Seth and Dave regarding recruiting... Period.

[AspyDad]

Out of curiosity, in what ways did Seth respect the traditions of the program?

Put together the 25th anniversary weekend of 85 Champions (brought Addesa back for it), raised Garry Kearns banner HFH and others, there is a hockey alum only weekend to get everyone together that was started under him, etc, etc etc