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RPI 2023-24 (Part II): The Search for Special Teams Excellence

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  • #76
    Originally posted by CMcGarvey View Post

    Because it can be simultaneously true that our defense is terrible, our backup goalies are also really bad, and Watson being in net gives them the best chance to win. My thesis in December was that some of the defensive kinks would be worked out, we would be playing worse teams, and Watson returning to health would lead to a better product. It is true that we have a better chance to win when he plays than when Miller or Cherepak do, but that doesn't mean he is guaranteed a starting job at a better program. He has a 3 goals against over 3 years, that does not get you a guaranteed starting job in a better conference. Certainly, teams would want him, but I can't see him being guaranteed a starting job so I think he will stay.
    Watson isn’t the problem. The horrendous defensive play is the problem. Watson is a decent goalie nothing spectacular but a solid dude who can get you some wins when you have a half competent team in front of him. We don’t have that. I’m sure Watson is getting offers to play elsewhere as the starter. I can’t imagine he’s having much fun playing goalie for Dave smith.

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Wicked Slappaahs View Post

      Sadly, I don't think anyone should expect either of these two to return next year.
      Hopefully smith leaves as well. I can’t watch another season like this year.
      you know it’s bad when you beat brown and Princeton then we celebrate like we won the national championship. It’s an embarrassing mess to watch. I’ve lost interest in this debacle on the hill.

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      • #78
        Originally posted by Engineers View Post
        Watson isn’t the problem. The horrendous defensive play is the problem. Watson is a decent goalie nothing spectacular but a solid dude who can get you some wins when you have a half competent team in front of him. We don’t have that. I’m sure Watson is getting offers to play elsewhere as the starter. I can’t imagine he’s having much fun playing goalie for Dave smith.
        This was literally my original point before it got spun into me being a Watson hater. Simply that the analytics imply he is roughly at even value with what he would be expected to give up given the porous defense. I really like JW he has done a lot of good stuff here, all i disagreed on was the notion that he would be guaranteed a starting job in a better conference.

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        • #79
          Originally posted by CMcGarvey View Post

          This was literally my original point before it got spun into me being a Watson hater. Simply that the analytics imply he is roughly at even value with what he would be expected to give up given the porous defense. I really like JW he has done a lot of good stuff here, all i disagreed on was the notion that he would be guaranteed a starting job in a better conference.
          Yeah I’m more or less agreeing with you. Watson had a rough year last year but overall he’s been good. I don’t think anything is guaranteed but I could see him at maybe a AIC or sacred heart. He would have a chance to win a conference tittle and make the NCAA. I don’t know how much he would get out of staying another year at RPI. Other than being under duress constantly and more frustrated. If he does bounce my question is who the hell is going to be our goalie? Sanborn is not even remotely ready for D1 hockey. Smith better start working the phones for a transfer otherwise we’re looking at yet another terrible year.

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          • #80
            Originally posted by DrDemento View Post

            Bravo - Could not agree more. Before the season started I had said this team will live and die with special teams and defense. Well, we have all seen what has occurred game after game. Rather simplistic to say, but put one all ECAC defenseman on this team (perhaps one Brian Pothier or one of the 1985 D-men) and a lot of what you listed goes away. You get a more consistent solid defense in front of our goalie, you get a quarterback for the power play, you perhaps get someone who knows how to and can clear the puck out of our end past the blue line, and maybe you get a point man who can keep the puck in the offensive end when the opponent is trying to clear the puck out against our offensive pressure. No, we do not become BC or BU with one more player. But the games would be far less frustrating to watch and we might not have to focus on all the other aspects that we have been picking apart.
            Perhaps it is is just the glass half full part of my thinking but just maybe we are only one or two defensive players away from being far more competitive. Just my thoughts from suffering through much of this season.
            I suspect that Smith recognizes the defensive weakness of this team, and that is why he brought in Goffredo midseason. Goffredo seems to be showing sparks of talent, but he certainly isn't a Pothier, Hammond, Friday, Dark, or Robinson.
            sigpic

            Let's Go 'Tute!

            Maxed out at 2,147,483,647 at 10:00 AM EDT 9/17/07.

            2012 Poser Of The Year

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            • #81
              Originally posted by Wicked Slappaahs View Post

              I think this is a reasonable time line. The only site I could think that might possibly make sense is the Upper Renwyck Field in the Detroit Drive and Georgian Terrace parcels. It looks like there's ample room there for a new build and it would save a TON of hassle as it keeps within the campus footprint (no residential neighbor issues) as well eliminating the need to arrange for 2 years worth of practice and game ice time somewhere else. Possibly the parcel where the Nuclear building is off of Tibbetts ....the last time I was thru there those buildings looked like they needed to be razed.... LOL
              A lot of good thoughts from you all on here on the rink issue. Not a lot of options for an alternate site if HFH is unavailable: MVP in downtown Albany makes the most sense geographically, but I think the current set-up for hockey is terrible with poor quality ice. Major scheduling headaches with Siena basketball...and the women's hockey team might have to find its own place. The only other option I can think of is Glens Falls. Sure, it's an hour away, but the locals are filling the place for the Thunder. Anywhere else? I read somewhere that the HVCC rink, which could seat 1000 people and might have been an emergency option, is no longer operating as it needs basic upgrades.

              I heard some chatter over the years about whether RPI had earmarked some land for a potential new arena in a strategic plan map of the campus, but I could never find any evidence online to suggest this had any validity.

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              • #82
                Originally posted by Ralph Baer View Post

                I suspect that Smith recognizes the defensive weakness of this team, and that is why he brought in Goffredo midseason. Goffredo seems to be showing sparks of talent, but he certainly isn't a Pothier, Hammond, Friday, Dark, or Robinson.
                Goffredo has played well and has been a plus. I am not aware that the order of events that led to the roster spot being open has been explained; Dylan Davies was removed from the roster around the same time.

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                • #83
                  Originally posted by CMcGarvey View Post

                  This was literally my original point before it got spun into me being a Watson hater. Simply that the analytics imply he is roughly at even value with what he would be expected to give up given the porous defense. I really like JW he has done a lot of good stuff here, all i disagreed on was the notion that he would be guaranteed a starting job in a better conference.
                  Watson is a good goaltender. I think a factor with him is that he has a bit of an injury history in his time here, and I think he was going out there at less than 100% sometimes. His stretches of poor play seemed to precede some time off to heal injuries.

                  Hard to predict what happens in the transfer portal; such a mixed bag and wild card. Players leaving to go pro instead of staying to try and move the program forward happened to Appert, and it happens to more successful programs--I remember well when Kyle Okposo left the University of Minnesota in December right after the World Juniors to join the Islanders. When Don Lucia, only 4 years removed from back-to-back national championships complained, the Islanders GM Garth Snow offered these quotes to the Minneapolis Star Tribune (https://www.collegehockeynews.com/ne..._islesgm.php):
                  "Quite frankly, we weren't happy with the program there," Snow told the paper. "They have a responsibility to coach, to make Kyle a better player, and they were not doing that."

                  He continued, "[Okposo] just wasn't getting better — bottom line. And to me, that's the frustrating part. We entrusted the coach there to turn him into a better hockey player, and it wasn't happening. We feel more comfortable in him developing right under our watch."

                  "Whether it was Kyle or another player, until things change in that program we'd probably make the same decision," Snow told the Star-Tribune. "There should be a coach there that looks in the mirror. ... I don't think we'd be at this point if he was being coached properly."

                  Life comes at you fast on the varsity team of life!

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                  • #84
                    ...
                    Last edited by RPI Hockey Guy; 02-20-2024, 10:26 AM.

                    Comment


                    • #85
                      Originally posted by CMcGarvey View Post

                      This was literally my original point before it got spun into me being a Watson hater. Simply that the analytics imply he is roughly at even value with what he would be expected to give up given the porous defense. I really like JW he has done a lot of good stuff here, all i disagreed on was the notion that he would be guaranteed a starting job in a better conference.
                      Did not call you a Watson hater. I feel bad bx the young man sees like 80 plus shots most weekends. Taking me too serious.
                      "Rick not want to be know as tough guy, Rick want to be known as team guy" Rick "Mongo" Bennett

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                      • #86
                        Really worst time to build a new rink bx of inflation but we do need one.
                        "Rick not want to be know as tough guy, Rick want to be known as team guy" Rick "Mongo" Bennett

                        Comment


                        • #87
                          Most buildings rated any higher than structurally unsound can be renovated to any level desired. Not all that sure a new and probably far more expensive new rink is needed. At least three eastern schools that I know of have made out just fine renovating what they had. The best of the three pre renovation (SLU/Appleton) was nowhere close to what the Fieldhouse is today four decades since its' last significant renovation. Examples:

                          1) UVM/Gutterson- Was there both pre and post renovation. Absolute dump pre renovation. Mostly bleacher seating. So unbearably cold that between periods people headed through an indoor walkway from the rink to a very large heated indoor practice facility right behind it to get warm. When you arrived there you were "greeted" by multiple folding tables covered with your choice of either hot cider or hot chocolate. Today, it is very nice and UVM went on a hugh run not long after the renovation. The run did not stop because of any facility. It stopped because of what, in retrospect, was a very stupid administrative decision the leave the ECAC.

                          2) NU/Matthews- Was there both pre and post renovation. Another absolute dump pre renovation. So bad that by the early 80's the top deck was condemned and no one was allowed up there. Today, it is extremely nice and NU is doing just fine thank you.

                          3) SLU/Appleton- Have only been there pre renovation. Unlike the other two it was never a dump. In fact, it was always fairly nice. Today, based on what I have heard from people who have been there, it is a beauty and SLU is doing OK.

                          Nope, not everybody need a new rink every time. You often do just fine dancing with who brung you.

                          However, what you MUST have is close, easy and hassle free, and non perilous PARKING for EVERYONE who may want to go to a game complete with machines that take cash, make change, take cards or can read your phone. That would be the surface lot right across from the Fieldhouse separated by only Cook Street. Based on a commonly accepted formula for arena parking, that would be one parking spot for every ten seats or near 500 spots. Present surface lot can't even come close to doing that. So, the only new thing you need is a multi level garage to make the facility viable and someplace more occasional or casual fans would even consider going to.

                          Yes, there are two more smaller lots behind the Fieldhouse but neither meet the above criteria for the hockey arena. First, they are up a very significant incline (and decline). Not exactly easy or hassle free though they are passable (barely) for hoops and football. Secondly, the sidewalk on the incline can get downright treacherous when it is covered with any slow or ice. In addition, when there is a lot of snow, the plows have little choice but to throw it on the sidewalk as there is nowhere else. That forces people to walk right on Cook Street and that is not a very good idea.

                          Want more people to come? Got to give them what they need to make it attractive to them and that starts with ample and safe on site PARKING.







                          Comment


                          • #88
                            Originally posted by tony/troy View Post
                            Most buildings rated any higher than structurally unsound can be renovated to any level desired. Not all that sure a new and probably far more expensive new rink is needed. At least three eastern schools that I know of have made out just fine renovating what they had. The best of the three pre renovation (SLU/Appleton) was nowhere close to what the Fieldhouse is today four decades since its' last significant renovation. Examples:

                            1) UVM/Gutterson- Was there both pre and post renovation. Absolute dump pre renovation. Mostly bleacher seating. So unbearably cold that between periods people headed through an indoor walkway from the rink to a very large heated indoor practice facility right behind it to get warm. When you arrived there you were "greeted" by multiple folding tables covered with your choice of either hot cider or hot chocolate. Today, it is very nice and UVM went on a hugh run not long after the renovation. The run did not stop because of any facility. It stopped because of what, in retrospect, was a very stupid administrative decision the leave the ECAC.

                            2) NU/Matthews- Was there both pre and post renovation. Another absolute dump pre renovation. So bad that by the early 80's the top deck was condemned and no one was allowed up there. Today, it is extremely nice and NU is doing just fine thank you.

                            3) SLU/Appleton- Have only been there pre renovation. Unlike the other two it was never a dump. In fact, it was always fairly nice. Today, based on what I have heard from people who have been there, it is a beauty and SLU is doing OK.

                            Nope, not everybody need a new rink every time. You often do just fine dancing with who brung you.

                            However, what you MUST have is close, easy and hassle free, and non perilous PARKING for EVERYONE who may want to go to a game complete with machines that take cash, make change, take cards or can read your phone. That would be the surface lot right across from the Fieldhouse separated by only Cook Street. Based on a commonly accepted formula for arena parking, that would be one parking spot for every ten seats or near 500 spots. Present surface lot can't even come close to doing that. So, the only new thing you need is a multi level garage to make the facility viable and someplace more occasional or casual fans would even consider going to.

                            Yes, there are two more smaller lots behind the Fieldhouse but neither meet the above criteria for the hockey arena. First, they are up a very significant incline (and decline). Not exactly easy or hassle free though they are passable (barely) for hoops and football. Secondly, the sidewalk on the incline can get downright treacherous when it is covered with any slow or ice. In addition, when there is a lot of snow, the plows have little choice but to throw it on the sidewalk as there is nowhere else. That forces people to walk right on Cook Street and that is not a very good idea.

                            Want more people to come? Got to give them what they need to make it attractive to them and that starts with ample and safe on site PARKING.






                            Cook? I thought that was called Peoples Ave. as on the other side of Burdett.
                            sigpic

                            Let's Go 'Tute!

                            Maxed out at 2,147,483,647 at 10:00 AM EDT 9/17/07.

                            2012 Poser Of The Year

                            Comment


                            • #89
                              Originally posted by tony/troy View Post
                              Most buildings rated any higher than structurally unsound can be renovated to any level desired. Not all that sure a new and probably far more expensive new rink is needed. At least three eastern schools that I know of have made out just fine renovating what they had. The best of the three pre renovation (SLU/Appleton) was nowhere close to what the Fieldhouse is today four decades since its' last significant renovation. Examples:

                              1) UVM/Gutterson- Was there both pre and post renovation. Absolute dump pre renovation. Mostly bleacher seating. So unbearably cold that between periods people headed through an indoor walkway from the rink to a very large heated indoor practice facility right behind it to get warm. When you arrived there you were "greeted" by multiple folding tables covered with your choice of either hot cider or hot chocolate. Today, it is very nice and UVM went on a hugh run not long after the renovation. The run did not stop because of any facility. It stopped because of what, in retrospect, was a very stupid administrative decision the leave the ECAC.

                              2) NU/Matthews- Was there both pre and post renovation. Another absolute dump pre renovation. So bad that by the early 80's the top deck was condemned and no one was allowed up there. Today, it is extremely nice and NU is doing just fine thank you.

                              3) SLU/Appleton- Have only been there pre renovation. Unlike the other two it was never a dump. In fact, it was always fairly nice. Today, based on what I have heard from people who have been there, it is a beauty and SLU is doing OK.

                              Nope, not everybody need a new rink every time. You often do just fine dancing with who brung you.

                              However, what you MUST have is close, easy and hassle free, and non perilous PARKING for EVERYONE who may want to go to a game complete with machines that take cash, make change, take cards or can read your phone. That would be the surface lot right across from the Fieldhouse separated by only Cook Street. Based on a commonly accepted formula for arena parking, that would be one parking spot for every ten seats or near 500 spots. Present surface lot can't even come close to doing that. So, the only new thing you need is a multi level garage to make the facility viable and someplace more occasional or casual fans would even consider going to.

                              Yes, there are two more smaller lots behind the Fieldhouse but neither meet the above criteria for the hockey arena. First, they are up a very significant incline (and decline). Not exactly easy or hassle free though they are passable (barely) for hoops and football. Secondly, the sidewalk on the incline can get downright treacherous when it is covered with any slow or ice. In addition, when there is a lot of snow, the plows have little choice but to throw it on the sidewalk as there is nowhere else. That forces people to walk right on Cook Street and that is not a very good idea.

                              Want more people to come? Got to give them what they need to make it attractive to them and that starts with ample and safe on site PARKING.






                              Matthews is being torn down in the next year or so. Building is sinking. Parts of the upper bowl are roped off to fans. It’s in rough shape. NU has the same problem as us where to build a new arena. Not much real estate left in Boston to build a new arena so they are building where Matthews currently sits.

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                              • #90
                                Having recently attended my first game in a decade at HFH after coming back from California, I couldn't believe there hasn't been anything done about the parking at HFH in the intervening decade. I certainly understand that the parking priorities on campus should be geared toward faculty, staff and students that use it on the daily, but the fact that RPI has a D1 program which clearly draws in fans like myself, alumni or other people from the commnity and there is no easy way to park and attend is crazy to me.

                                The HFH has a great nostaglic charm to me, it definitely gives off "old time hockey" vibes like forcing the visting team to walk through the arena, the dark-ish corners of walkways, the concourse right at ice level (practically), etc. but if you are going to modernize HFH by renovating or replacing, then a modern parking solution has to be a part of whatever happens.
                                RPI 2010 ECACHL Champions

                                http://rpihockey.blogspot.com

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