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Union College: 2023-2024

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  • #31
    Who could have anticipated last night's home game against Clarkson? The "big boys" came in expecting to outskate and outshoot Union. So did I. They did (in the first period). Then Union started playing the body (Never mind Clarkson players were a lot bigger). Clarkson folded. Korpi's goal was a life lesson in determination. Clarkson was lucky the beating wasn't a lot worse. Who was the best player on the ice? Chauvette of course.
    Last edited by kdt34wqx; 01-13-2024, 07:30 AM.

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    • #32
      50 Yale 14 .4559 50 .0000 7-12-0 (1-1) .3684 .3617
      51 Brown 13 .4536 51 .0000 8-11-1 (2-3) .4417 .4192
      52 Princeton 12 .4510 52 .0004 6-11-2 (3-0) .3158 .3295
      53 St. Lawrence 11 .4483 54 .0000 7-12-3 (0-1) .4015 .3934
      54 Harvard 10 .4506 53 .0009 3-11-3 (0-1) .2843 .3040
      55 Rensselaer
      ECAC Struggling this year. This is the current pairwise #50-55
      DUTCHMEN HOCKEY
      DANGER - MEN AT WORK

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      • #33


        ECAC Struggling this year. This is the current pairwise #50-55[/QUOTE]

        And only 2 in the top 30!

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        • #34
          I just read Schott’s column In the Gazette on February 16th. In my opinion he is too close the situation and is missing the big picture. The proposed 2200 seat hockey rink at Rivers casino makes no sense either for Union hockey or for that matter Schenectady, NY. This size stadium is not big enough for concerts, high school basketball, or school graduation ceremonies. It makes no sense to put down ice weekly for 28 home hockey games and then return the space for general use (it’s too expensive). It also makes no economic sense to keep ice in a new arena during the season for team practice, youth hockey, and figure skating rentals.

          The college will always need a season long practice facility on campus to go along with off campus games. Therefore Messa will have to remain in tact (and maintained) indefinitely. Schenectady the city needs a bigger arena similar to the Glens Falls civic center which (by the way) the developers tried to put in Schenectady during the (late, great) Frank Duci era.

          Messa rink is also under rated. It’s not a national division 1 rink but every seat is good (unlike RPI). Bench seats are fine for a two hour hockey game, bathrooms (upper and lower) are available and parking is never a problem for the size crowds that Union hockey attracts. It also doesn’t look good at all for the college to put on hockey games at an off campus casino. Union should stick with Messa until they can afford to put up a better arena on campus.
          Last edited by kdt34wqx; 02-16-2024, 04:40 PM.

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          • #35
            Originally posted by kdt34wqx View Post
            I just read Schott’s column In the Gazette on February 16th. In my opinion he is too close the situation and is missing the big picture. The proposed 2200 seat hockey rink at Rivers casino makes no sense either for Union hockey or for that matter Schenectady, NY. This size stadium is not big enough for concerts, high school basketball, or school graduation ceremonies. It makes no sense to put down ice weekly for 28 home hockey games and then return the space for general use (it’s too expensive). It also makes no economic sense to keep ice in a new arena during the season for team practice, youth hockey, and figure skating rentals.

            The college will always need a season long practice facility on campus to go along with off campus games. Therefore Messa will have to remain in tact (and maintained) indefinitely. Schenectady the city needs a bigger arena similar to the Glens Falls civic center which (by the way) the developers tried to put in Schenectady during the (late, great) Frank Duci era.

            Messa rink is also under rated. It’s not a national division 1 rink but every seat is good (unlike RPI). Bench seats are fine for a two hour hockey game, bathrooms (upper and lower) are available and parking is never a problem for the size crowds that Union hockey attracts. It also doesn’t look good at all for the college to put on hockey games at an off campus casino. Union should stick with Messa until they can afford to put up a better arena on campus.
            Excellent Points, well said.
            DUTCHMEN HOCKEY
            DANGER - MEN AT WORK

            Comment


            • #36
              https://unionathletics.com/news/2024...wk-harbor.aspx
              Quinnipiac Bobcats
              2023 National Champions
              ECAC Regular Season Champions: 2012-13, 2014-15, 2015-16, 2018-19, 2020-21, 2021-22, 2022-23, 2023-24
              ECAC Tournament Champions: 2016
              East Regional: 2013 (Champions), 2014, 2016 (Champions), 2023 (Champions), 2024
              Northeast Regional:
              West Regional: 2015, 2021
              Midwest Regional: 2019, 2022
              Frozen Four: 2013, 2016, 2023 (Champions)

              Pass complete. Lipkin has a man in front! Shot... SCORE!!!

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              • #37
                Originally posted by kdt34wqx View Post
                I just read Schott’s column In the Gazette on February 16th. In my opinion he is too close the situation and is missing the big picture. The proposed 2200 seat hockey rink at Rivers casino makes no sense either for Union hockey or for that matter Schenectady, NY. This size stadium is not big enough for concerts, high school basketball, or school graduation ceremonies. It makes no sense to put down ice weekly for 28 home hockey games and then return the space for general use (it’s too expensive). It also makes no economic sense to keep ice in a new arena during the season for team practice, youth hockey, and figure skating rentals.

                The college will always need a season long practice facility on campus to go along with off campus games. Therefore Messa will have to remain in tact (and maintained) indefinitely. Schenectady the city needs a bigger arena similar to the Glens Falls civic center which (by the way) the developers tried to put in Schenectady during the (late, great) Frank Duci era.

                Messa rink is also under rated. It’s not a national division 1 rink but every seat is good (unlike RPI). Bench seats are fine for a two hour hockey game, bathrooms (upper and lower) are available and parking is never a problem for the size crowds that Union hockey attracts. It also doesn’t look good at all for the college to put on hockey games at an off campus casino. Union should stick with Messa until they can afford to put up a better arena on campus.
                You defeat your argument within the post. If Messa is not a D-1 rink, then how do you expect Union to compete on a national stage with an inferior building? You will have major problems attracting talent w/o a first-class facility even with athletic scholarships.

                Also, why keep Messa as a practice facility when Union is making a financial commitment to the new facility for practice and games? Do you want to pay double for practices? The new rink will supposedly be steps away from campus. How is that a problem? Bright Landry is across the Charles River in Allston, a healthy trek down from the Harvard campus for some of our players. That hasn't been a problem for us.

                I do agree that 2200 is too small especially if you are building a new facility that is expected to attract other events. Go big or go home.

                And with the proposed hotel space as part of the plan, you guys could host a holiday tournament or other winter tournament and draw teams from outside the region. Bringing in more business to Schenectady. Just sayin'.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Skate79 View Post

                  You defeat your argument within the post. If Messa is not a D-1 rink, then how do you expect Union to compete on a national stage with an inferior building? You will have major problems attracting talent w/o a first-class facility even with athletic scholarships.

                  Also, why keep Messa as a practice facility when Union is making a financial commitment to the new facility for practice and games? Do you want to pay double for practices? The new rink will supposedly be steps away from campus. How is that a problem? Bright Landry is across the Charles River in Allston, a healthy trek down from the Harvard campus for some of our players. That hasn't been a problem for us.

                  I do agree that 2200 is too small especially if you are building a new facility that is expected to attract other events. Go big or go home.

                  And with the proposed hotel space as part of the plan, you guys could host a holiday tournament or other winter tournament and draw teams from outside the region. Bringing in more business to Schenectady. Just sayin'.
                  Messa rink is substandard. Period. It doesn't come close to today's standards for ADA compliance or building code, not to mention creature comforts.

                  I have not read anywhere that Messa will be kept as an ice sheet for practices, once the new arena is built. Given that new exercise and training facilities will be included in the new rink, I don't believe that is the plan. From the release: "...Also, shifting the hockey programs from Messa will free up valuable space in the Achilles Center for other athletic uses. As a result, the facility will now be enjoyed by more members of the Union community, enhancing the student experience for all at the College."

                  https://unionathletics.com/news/2024...wk-harbor.aspx

                  As the press release notes, the capacity for non-hockey would be 3,600 (with seating on the ice surface area). Which is plenty big enough for concerts and other events. Also, a hotel at the site already exists ..I don't recall reading that they are planning for or need to build another one.

                  What folks aren't taking into consideration is the perilous fiscal circumstances that small northeastern liberal arts colleges face. The headwinds they face are real given the shrinking population / demographics in the northeast. Union is better shape than many of them, but just this week there was an article detailing Moody's down grade of its bond rating forecast for Union: "... expectations of ongoing multi-year operating deficits requiring the use of reserves, resulting in weakening financial reserve levels relative to peers.”

                  https://www.timesunion.com/education...t-18684810.php

                  What the arena lease arrangement gives the school is cost certainty in the form of the annual lease payments. They avoid financing a huge construction project AND they avoid the operational and maintenance costs (known and unknown) associated with ownership. Both the men's and women's ice hockey programs will receive brand new facilities that will only strengthen their recruiting efforts. I guarantee you that the coaches are beyond thrilled with this decision. It's a no-brainer.
                  Last edited by Wicked Slappaahs; 03-01-2024, 08:33 AM.
                  ""Ralph is the Chuck Norris of this board. Ralph doesnt sleep he just waits." - fishcore12

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Wicked Slappaahs View Post
                    As the press release notes, the capacity for non-hockey would be 3,600 (with seating on the ice surface area). Which is plenty big enough for concerts and other events. Also, a hotel at the site already exists ..I don't recall reading that they are planning for or need to build another one.

                    What the arena lease arrangement gives the school is cost certainty in the form of annual lease payments. They avoid financing a huge construction project AND they avoid the operational and maintenance costs (known and unknown) associated with ownership. Both the men's and women's ice hockey programs will receive brand-new facilities that will only strengthen their recruiting efforts. I guarantee you that the coaches are beyond thrilled with this decision. It's a no-brainer.
                    I wasn't concerned about the capacity for non-hockey. My point was hockey attendance only and building an arena today for only 2200 makes little sense unless their studies show that 2200 capacity will not be exceeded repeatedly. Certainly, you'll have trouble attracting NCAA regionals. 3000 would have been better.

                    I don't think you're right about the operational and maintenance costs of the rink. The lease payments will have to cover those costs because that is the only source of incoming funds when the rink is operational. For concerts and other events, they can cover those costs through renting the space, ticket revenue, booth rentals, signage, etc... Hockey doesn't generate that type of income flow so the lease payments are pretty much what will cover 'time on ice'. Unless they sell ad space along the boards.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by Wicked Slappaahs View Post

                      What folks aren't taking into consideration is the perilous fiscal circumstances that small northeastern liberal arts colleges face. The headwinds they face are real, given the shrinking population/demographics in the northeast. Union is in better shape than many of them. Still, just this week there was an article detailing Moody's down grade of its bond rating forecast for Union: "... expectations of ongoing multi-year operating deficits requiring the use of reserves, resulting in weakening financial reserve levels relative to peers.”

                      https://www.timesunion.com/education...t-18684810.php
                      I hope someone in the administration has done their homework and fully understands where our attendance for home games came from and whether they will travel the added distance and inconvenience to our new rink. I am not sure you can compare Harvard's Bright as there is a very large local working-class following of College hockey in Boston with its easy public transit. I don't see many students at Harvard at their home games. There is excellent parking. I don't know if the new rink will be a win. Will it attract new Schenectady Fans? Different types of fans? Possibly. How much will season tickets cost? Who will set the price? What will the concessions be like? Will the improved parking bring more distant fans?

                      Harvard Business School Professor Clayton Christensen consistently turned heads in higher education by predicting that 50% of colleges and universities will close or go bankrupt in the next decade (by 2030). The prediction arose out of an observation that the business model of traditional colleges and universities was broken. https://www.christenseninstitute.org...e-next-decade/ Many are already closing or merging with other colleges and universities.

                      Most of the decline in student population is due to fewer young men pursuing college. About 1 million fewer young men are in college, but only 0.2 million fewer young women. As a result, men make up 44% of young college students today, down from 47% in 2011, according to newly released U.S. Census Bureau data. Men are heading for the trades where they can earn good money immediately without incurring the suffocating debt of college loans. Many college graduates already work at the trades and many others are underemployed. The only thing a college degree gets you is more debt.

                      Top tier liberal arts schools like Colgate, Williams, Amherst, with very loyal alumni and big endowments should do ok. Engineering Universities like RPI will be ok. Not clear to me that Union will make it. Then, the hockey team will not matter.
                      DUTCHMEN HOCKEY
                      DANGER - MEN AT WORK

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                      • #41
                        UNION will finish 5-8 and have home ice for the first round. This is much better than what I expedted at the year's start. Numbers 3 & 4 were there for the taking down the stretch, and it looks like Dartmouth and Colgate grabbed them. Looks like UNION will play either RPI or Brown.
                        DUTCHMEN HOCKEY
                        DANGER - MEN AT WORK

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                        • #42
                          Brown Union playoff game should be a good one. The rivalry has been there since U went DI. First game at Achilles this year was a toss up, both teams playing well. Second one was interesting, Brown controlling until costly injury to Scott and incredible effort by U to prevail. If Brown has some of its injured players back (played Harvard with a depleted roster), will be a close game and maybe even if not if Lawton stays hot.

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                          • #43
                            In the past ten seasons, Union is 8-7-4 against Brown. Four of those Brown wins have occurred in Schenectady. In the last ten matchups since 2019, Brown is 5-3-2.
                            DUTCHMEN HOCKEY
                            DANGER - MEN AT WORK

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by Skate79 View Post

                              I wasn't concerned about the capacity for non-hockey. My point was hockey attendance only and building an arena today for only 2200 makes little sense unless their studies show that 2200 capacity will not be exceeded repeatedly. Certainly, you'll have trouble attracting NCAA regionals. 3000 would have been better.

                              I don't think you're right about the operational and maintenance costs of the rink. The lease payments will have to cover those costs because that is the only source of incoming funds when the rink is operational. For concerts and other events, they can cover those costs through renting the space, ticket revenue, booth rentals, signage, etc... Hockey doesn't generate that type of income flow so the lease payments are pretty much what will cover 'time on ice'. Unless they sell ad space along the boards.
                              The 2,200 capacity for hockey is the same as Messa, which hovers around 80% average capacity. Attendance peaked at ~90% in the title contending era, so this seems like a decent number for hockey; my understanding is that there was a strong desire to avoid a larger but often empty rink, given it what that does to game atmosphere. (One of the best things about Messa is that it is frequently pretty full, a sounds and feels it.)

                              I think there are pros and cons to the slightly-off-campus location. They probably lose a little student attendance, but gain a little local attendance now that parking will not be horrific.

                              Huge benefit to recruiting. They’ve put lipstick on it several times, but Messa is still a dump, especially at a day-to-day facility level.

                              And for finances, it’s basically a wash; the ~$1M a year in lease payments is about the same it would have cost to upgrade and maintain Messa at a “barely functioning” level for the foreseeable future. Union sheds the need to finance a major rink project, and eliminates any downside risk below it’s lease number. Messa will not continue to operate as a rink; it will become an indoor practice and locker room facility for other teams, which is big benefit to the football, lacrosse, soccer, and other teams.

                              So, it’s a no-brainer. Achilles is a super cool old rink with lots of charm and history, but it’s a money pit and problem in recruiting. A 6,000 person facility on campus would be cool, but it would never be filled, and would cost Union way too much. What we’re getting is a great result.

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                              • #45
                                We will face off against Brown in Schenectady tonight. If we get by them, which is not certain, by any means, we could possibly face off against Colgate. This might bring back memories of March 13, 2011.
                                No. 4/4 Union falls 4-3 in overtime to Colgate in the deciding game of the ECAC Quarterfinals.
                                Colgate was at the time 11-26-3, and only 4-15-3 in the ECAC and the Dutchmen were 26-9-4, and 17-3-2 in the ECAC and heading for the NCAA Tournament. This was a shocker of a loss and a complete upset. We lost to Minnesota Duluth, the eventual National Champions, in the first round.

                                DUTCHMEN HOCKEY
                                DANGER - MEN AT WORK

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