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UNH Hockey 2023 Off Season Thread Turn and Face the Strange

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  • Originally posted by Darius View Post
    College sports are transitioning to a pay the players model. Schools and programs need to figure out where they want to be when it all shakes out. I can envision a not to distant future with an NCAA structure similar to football where there are semi-pro (FBS) and traditional (FCS) divisions for many sports. It will not be pretty for many programs with great histories that are not Alabama football, UConn hoops, MN hockey, etc.
    I'd be interested to hear what differentiates smaller/non-Big10 teams like Minn-Duluth, St.Cloud State, Denver, WEstern Mich, Nebraska-Omaha, Merrimack and Lowell
    The Souza record:
    15-16 10th place
    16-17 10th place
    17-18 11th place
    18-19 8th place
    19-20 9th place
    20-21 10th place
    21-22 9th place
    22-23 10th place

    Comment


    • Again, thanks Norbert!
      My question is, since the facilities is such a big deal (yes, I absolutely feel that it is imp
      ortant) did you get any sense of the timing on this. A hoped for completion date?

      I believe that Watcher nailed it, problem identification is the easiest part of life, so what are you doing positively to sell the program in view of some of the short comings.

      Lastly, as Ref noted, we will score more this coming year. Comny Will made a real difference as the year goes on. These kids have way more heart than many give them credit for but the problem is that which teams are going to move over and let us rise? Having real trouble with this one.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
        I am curious..not arguing..about your general over all impressions of the past years? Is being in the bottom of HE going to be our norm and we should be accepting of that
        Not great, but with recent progress to at least being fun to watch. Possibly and no.

        Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
        Yeah most of us here do give a "the sky is falling" attitude but kindly tell me how we should be feeling...that said...I was very pleased with the second half of the season. And look for more improvement next...
        I can’t tell anyone how to feel. Personally, I try to avoid sports and relatively inconsequential things in life from exciting me to the point of frustration and stress. I too was pleased with the second half of the season (not the very end) and look forward to improvement next season.

        I will not be out cheered in my own building.

        Comment


        • Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post

          I'd be interested to hear what differentiates smaller/non-Big10 teams like Minn-Duluth, St.Cloud State, Denver, WEstern Mich, Nebraska-Omaha, Merrimack and Lowell
          If you mean their recent performance differentiated from each other and UNH, recruiting and coaching.

          Longer term and compared to larger/B1G teams, I don’t know what the future will bring. I can envision the NCAA going official with semi-pro/minor league top football and basketball divisions. Hopefully this does not fully trickle down to hockey. If it does, some schools will have hard decisions. UNH is in a better place to make those and other changing landscape decisions now than it was a few years ago.

          I will not be out cheered in my own building.

          Comment


          • Originally posted by After the Whistle View Post
            Again, thanks Norbert!
            My question is, since the facilities is such a big deal (yes, I absolutely feel that it is imp
            ortant) did you get any sense of the timing on this. A hoped for completion date?

            I believe that Watcher nailed it, problem identification is the easiest part of life, so what are you doing positively to sell the program in view of some of the short comings.

            Lastly, as Ref noted, we will score more this coming year. Comny Will made a real difference as the year goes on. These kids have way more heart than many give them credit for but the problem is that which teams are going to move over and let us rise? Having real trouble with this one.
            I believe it’s June 8th when the senate votes on the budget. Things could immediately start if funding is approved. I believe it will be done in phases so things can open and be in use. Field hockey will also get facilities as they play in front.

            Comment


            • Originally posted by After the Whistle View Post
              My question is, since the facilities is such a big deal (yes, I absolutely feel that it is imp
              ortant) did you get any sense of the timing on this. A hoped for completion date?
              https://www.unionleader.com/sports/c...290380aff.html

              “…the $8 million, along with an additional amount — at least $8 million the university is looking to raise through private donations — will be used to renovate the home and visiting locker rooms for the men’s and women’s hockey teams and to build both a new study and strength and conditioning area for student-athletes.”

              “The arena’s HVAC and sound systems will also be updated using entirely university funds…”

              “The HVAC and locker room renovations and building the strength and conditioning and study areas do not yet have a timetable for completion… will begin as soon as they possibly can. The sound system will be updated this spring after the hockey season.”


              I believe the Governor’s $8 million request was reduced to $7 million by the House. Earlier this month the Senate Finance Committee reduced the University System of New Hampshire’s appropriation for the next biennium by $6.4 million. I think the Whitt $ is separate from that. Not sure when the budget goes to the full Senate for approval.
              I will not be out cheered in my own building.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by norbert View Post

                I believe it’s June 8th when the senate votes on the budget. Things could immediately start if funding is approved. I believe it will be done in phases so things can open and be in use. Field hockey will also get facilities as they play in front.
                Thank you.

                The dreaded cross posting.

                I will not be out cheered in my own building.

                Comment


                • [QUOTE=Darius;n3811395]If you mean their recent performance differentiated from each other and UNH, recruiting and coaching.

                  Hopefully this does not fully trickle down to hockey. If it does, some schools will have hard decisions. UNH is in a better place to make those and other changing landscape decisions now than it was a few years ago.
                  You seem to be suggesting the Big 10 football schools will share their revenues with other departments like hockey. I'm skeptical that they will, as they'll always find another hottub that the football team needs.
                  But that was the premise to my question, which was that if we are already seeing the impact of these revenue differences, then (a) how do you explain the other non-big revenue teams still able to succeed, and (b) in your future scenario, the "haves" will really only be the big 10 schools, and BC/BU/North Dakota. Or should we expect UNH to fare worse than most of the other college programs?

                  The Souza record:
                  15-16 10th place
                  16-17 10th place
                  17-18 11th place
                  18-19 8th place
                  19-20 9th place
                  20-21 10th place
                  21-22 9th place
                  22-23 10th place

                  Comment


                  • Thank you both, Norbert and Darius.
                    in my experience with state dollars the budget often doesn’t get passed until long after the start of fiscal year - July 1 and no responsible entity will start until the money is real. But that said, if it is bid out, we could see some work fairly soon.

                    Comment


                    • I have a good friend who is a Trustee that I should see at a board meeting Monday so I will see if he knows anything about the budget and/or Whit renovations.

                      Not getting into the specifics of the conversations but willing to have those in person, a lot of what we discuss here is what I brought up Thursday. Fan engagement can go a long way. It will not change the outcome on the ice but for me it would at least show the department is at least trying. For example, if the STH got an email with the schedule a day before it is posted. Not an earth-shattering revelation but it is something. It goes to the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.

                      I think a lot of what happens moving forward falls on AD Rich and what she pushes for the program and lets MS7 implement. Only time will tell the story if true changes happen.

                      Willing to throw this out there, would anyone be interested in a STH gathering and see if we can get an open forum with some of those involved?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by norbert View Post
                        I have been as critical as anyone on this board, and you can call me soft now, but I have a different perspective on everything after yesterday. Don't get me wrong in that subpar records are ok and should not reflect on the staff. But I do honestly feel that the support for men's hockey administratively is not there.

                        Again I want to be respectful of the conversation yesterday but am willing to have a person conversation with anyone, just reach out.
                        If I'm being honest norbert, I'm left with no option but to think one of two things happened during your Thursday meeting with MS7. One, he charmed your socks off, and you let him direct the conversation into areas which allowed him to trot out his litany of excuses. Or two, being the nice guy that you are, and chatting with a fellow nice guy, your sense of politeness didn't allow you to dig deep and demand answers to the tough questions. No worries, though, it happens every day at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. ;-) But it sounds like the discussion you guys had the other day was one where you arguably would have been better off interviewing his boss.

                        I hope everyone on here read Dan's very insightful post (#895) a day or two ago. Hits the nail on the head, repeatedly.

                        And 'Ref, I too struggle with the comment, "Some of that is coaching and development so that is up for debate". No, actually when you are the Head Hockey Coach, that is THE mission - NOT the debate. Otherwise, what is the coach other than a well-paid facilities tour guide who dabbles in coaching a couple days per week? Are we to believe the difference between MS7 and Ben Barr (UMaine) is just down to really bad luck?? What does success look like in Mike Souza's eyes, and shouldn't at least a couple winning seasons have factored into the last eight seasons he's been significantly involved in?

                        Norb, sorry to be the guy who pizzed in the punchbowl ... but despite your best intentions, you let MS7 off the hook.
                        Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                        Montreal Expos Forever ...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post

                          If I'm being honest norbert, I'm left with no option but to think one of two things happened during your Thursday meeting with MS7. One, he charmed your socks off, and you let him direct the conversation into areas which allowed him to trot out his litany of excuses. Or two, being the nice guy that you are, and chatting with a fellow nice guy, your sense of politeness didn't allow you to dig deep and demand answers to the tough questions. No worries, though, it happens every day at 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. ;-) But it sounds like the discussion you guys had the other day was one where you arguably would have been better off interviewing his boss.

                          I hope everyone on here read Dan's very insightful post (#895) a day or two ago. Hits the nail on the head, repeatedly.

                          And 'Ref, I too struggle with the comment, "Some of that is coaching and development so that is up for debate". No, actually when you are the Head Hockey Coach, that is THE mission - NOT the debate. Otherwise, what is the coach other than a well-paid facilities tour guide who dabbles in coaching a couple days per week? Are we to believe the difference between MS7 and Ben Barr (UMaine) is just down to really bad luck?? What does success look like in Mike Souza's eyes, and shouldn't at least a couple winning seasons have factored into the last eight seasons he's been significantly involved in?

                          Norb, sorry to be the guy who pizzed in the punchbowl ... but despite your best intentions, you let MS7 off the hook.
                          There are a few things at play here. I had full intentions of going in guns blazing and our conversation was just that, a conversation. As I mentioned earlier it is hard to write how the conversation went. I have been one of the biggest critics and negative people on this message board especially from a performance aspect. And I still think he needs to put a team on the ice the performs, but it was also eye opening to the behind-the-scenes stuff that the program has to go through to get to that point.

                          I am trying to be as honest with this group and also respectful of MS7 who took almost 2 hours to talk with me that included Colin who came in an talked as well. I would love to have a conversation with with AD Rich as well to see what she has to say, but that is another barrier to cross.

                          I am not trying to be an apologist, but this is just more than getting guys in the door and having great talent. The things that everyone says are excuses are reality.

                          As mentioned, I wanted to go in and hammer the lack of performance, but it turned more into an information session. I really got an insight into the behind-the-scenes stuff that these coaches go through and it's not easy. We talked a lot about players, recruits, etc.

                          For example, MS7 wants to create a coach's club to allow fan access to have these conversations to engage with fans and also raise money but it seems like a struggle to get it to become a reality. There were some point blank questions asked about players coming in or leaving and the answers were all logical.

                          While I had hoped for more answers on Xs and Os along with where the program can go, a lot of the conversation ended up centered around fan engagement. Asses in the seats brings in more money, provides a better experience for the game, and also as a recruiting tool.

                          You can call the conversation anything you want, but I would rather have had the insight versus an adversarial 20 minutes.

                          I would love to get "the group" together and discuss. I would rather recap and talk this through in person than on a message board. plus again my word count is in Chuck territory which is frightening.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Darius View Post
                            Thanks again for meeting with Coach and sharing your thoughts. You are not soft, just realistic. I have a couple of friends who provide me with one/two degrees of separation from direct interaction with Coach Souza, the program and the athletic department. I have never had the impression that UNH Hockey was the house on fire, about to implode into nothingness, dysfunctional mess that this board would have us think. Is anyone happy with the current state of the program? No. Would everyone like improvement? Yes. Have positive changes that we cannot see occurred since the coaching transition? Yes.

                            College sports are transitioning to a pay the players model. Schools and programs need to figure out where they want to be when it all shakes out. I can envision a not to distant future with an NCAA structure similar to football where there are semi-pro (FBS) and traditional (FCS) divisions for many sports. It will not be pretty for many programs with great histories that are not Alabama football, UConn hoops, MN hockey, etc. UNH is aware, well positioned and adapting to continue meeting the athletic department's mission statement: https://unhwildcats.com/sports/2021/...statement.aspx

                            One thing I am curious about from your meeting, did you get any gut sense of Coach's perception of his future at UNH?
                            As for the future, the impression was optimistic but I also am not Nieve enough to think a head coach would say, yeah kids coming in won't help. I have not looked at the news, but I was told there are some kinds coming in that has not been released. I do know that Tyler will carry the bulk of the load in net this year so I think this could be good.

                            Comment


                            • Thanks for being engaged, Norbert. Your observations have added to the picture. Not sure it changes my conclusion, but its always good to have information, and you taking the time to do the leg work is great.
                              The Souza record:
                              15-16 10th place
                              16-17 10th place
                              17-18 11th place
                              18-19 8th place
                              19-20 9th place
                              20-21 10th place
                              21-22 9th place
                              22-23 10th place

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by norbert View Post
                                I have a good friend who is a Trustee that I should see at a board meeting Monday so I will see if he knows anything about the budget and/or Whit renovations.

                                Not getting into the specifics of the conversations but willing to have those in person, a lot of what we discuss here is what I brought up Thursday. Fan engagement can go a long way. It will not change the outcome on the ice but for me it would at least show the department is at least trying. For example, if the STH got an email with the schedule a day before it is posted. Not an earth-shattering revelation but it is something. It goes to the sum of the parts is greater than the whole.

                                I think a lot of what happens moving forward falls on AD Rich and what she pushes for the program and lets MS7 implement. Only time will tell the story if true changes happen.

                                Willing to throw this out there, would anyone be interested in a STH gathering and see if we can get an open forum with some of those involved?
                                We (STH) often do get the schedule ahead of others...at least that's what I remember from years past. Not that it's a huge deal but always wonder why UNH seems to out its schedule out later than others but that's how they do it.
                                The HE schedule is out...(well, according to the schedules thread UMass seems to have it but it doesn't really come out til late in the summer in its entirety)

                                I will say this...if Mike Souza really wants a "Coaches Club" then make it happen. I really wonder if he does but like I have already mentioned there is a group who has met with like minded fans. This group you speak of would prob talk concerns not glorifying the coach...(With hopefully useful solutions)

                                We all support UNH hockey in our own way. If you rock the boat tho I'm not sure you'd get an invite..but that remains to be seen.

                                Chuck I took the time to read Dans info..it was eye opening. I do agree that having decent facilities matter as I've said but there's a whole lot more.

                                Next time you meet with him (if you do) ask what is the selling point (other than UNH is an excellent place to get an education which it certainly is).

                                As I was told once "you can't rest on your laurels forever"
                                which is not to discount the past legacy of UNH Hockey program success. I learned alot from that sage advice.
                                Last edited by HockeyRef; 05-14-2023, 10:05 AM.
                                Here we go 'Cats!!

                                Comment

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