UNH Hockey 2023 Off Season Thread Turn and Face the Strange

[Snively65]

JvR ...cool! And Lucic too? Imma gonna lose it lol

And, welcome back to Milan Lucic, whom should provide some toughness on the fourth line, and if I am not mistaken will be the only Bruin with his name on the SC if Bergeron and Krejci do not return, which sounds likely.

EDIT: oh, Brad Marchand was also on the 2010/11 Bruins SC team, at same 22-year-old age as Lucic.

[Chuck Murray]

I am happy for JvR getting at least one more season in the NHL, especially with the Bruins where I will be able to watch him on NESN. JvR is 54 NHL games played behind Rod Langway, although Langway has another 52 games played in the WHA. JvR reached his NRN of 300 goals this past season, and needs nine more assists to reach 300. Will be interesting to see who his line mates will be, and how much time he gets on the PP.

At this stage of his career, JvR is a bottom six forward who will get specialist time on one of the PP units.

If he's gonna be skating on one of the B's top two lines, they are in a world of hurt ...

[Snively65]

At this stage of his career, JvR is a bottom six forward who will get specialist time on one of the PP units.

If he's gonna be skating on one of the B's top two lines, they are in a world of hurt ...

I agree completely, as JvR has been a third-liner for several seasons now, as you have constantly noted. I would have liked to see JvR on a line centered by Charlie Coyle, but I suspect that Coyle may get moved up to the second line unless the Bruins trade one of their goalies and a D-man or two for a top-end center. I still like JvR’s willingness to take his lumps in the dirty areas of the ice, which Taylor Hall seemed unwilling to do.

[Chuck Murray]

I agree completely, as JvR has been a third-liner for several seasons now, as you have constantly noted. I would have liked to see JvR on a line centered by Charlie Coyle, but I suspect that Coyle may get moved up to the second line unless the Bruins trade one of their goalies and a D-man or two for a top-end center. I still like JvR’s willingness to take his lumps in the dirty areas of the ice, which Tyler Hall seemed unwilling to do.

I'm waiting for the dust to settle on the B's post-season activities, but so far it looks like it's gonna be a disaster. Taylor Hall seems to have been given away basically, to create some room under the cap to try to retain some of their more prominent free agents, but Orlov has already signed elsewhere ('Canes) and at least to this point, there is no indication that Bertuzzi is gonna sign either. Mike Reilly was bought out, and Clifton just signed a 3 year deal in Buffalo for $10.0M (crazy if you ask me). Incomings have been guys in their mid-30's like Lucic, JvR and Shattenkirk. If you're wondering, there's no indication Timmy Thomas is coming out of retirement, but the chasing of old guys who all seem to clearly be on the 17th tee of their careers seems a curious approach to rebuilding where Bergeron and Krejci seem to not be coming back, yet I still hear talk of a trade involving one of the goalies?!? I mean, at this point, why?!? Unless the B's are going to get both Tarasenko AND Bertuzzi (overrated in my mind as a DRW fan, even if he were to magically return to Detroit) ... what's left to keep them a serious Cup contender???

The Hall giveaway has to mean more than signing Morgan Geekie. Waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop ...

[Snively65]

I'm waiting for the dust to settle on the B's post-season activities, but so far it looks like it's gonna be a disaster. Taylor Hall seems to have been given away basically, to create some room under the cap to try to retain some of their more prominent free agents, but Orlov has already signed elsewhere ('Canes) and at least to this point, there is no indication that Bertuzzi is gonna sign either. Mike Reilly was bought out, and Clifton just signed a 3 year deal in Buffalo for $10.0M (crazy if you ask me). Incomings have been guys in their mid-30's like Lucic, JvR and Shattenkirk. If you're wondering, there's no indication Timmy Thomas is coming out of retirement, but the chasing of old guys who all seem to clearly be on the 17th tee of their careers seems a curious approach to rebuilding where Bergeron and Krejci seem to not be coming back, yet I still hear talk of a trade involving one of the goalies?!? I mean, at this point, why?!? Unless the B's are going to get both Tarasenko AND Bertuzzi (overrated in my mind as a DRW fan, even if he were to magically return to Detroit) ... what's left to keep them a serious Cup contender???

The Hall giveaway has to mean more than signing Morgan Geekie. Waiting for the proverbial other shoe to drop ...

And the Bruins also signed Patrick Brown, $1.6 mil for two years, who played 61 games with the Senators and Flyers last season, maybe to fill fourth line slot with Lucic.

[norbert]

JvR ...cool! And Lucic too? Imma gonna lose it lol

Which guy would you prefer

Games Goals Assists Points +/-
798 82 169 251 52
940 300 291 591 -73
349 60 62 122 -3


Pick a line and next stat will be part 2

[Chuck Murray]

Which guy would you prefer

Games Goals Assists Points +/-
798 82 169 251 52 Daniel Winnik
940 300 291 591 -73 JvR
349 60 62 122 -3 Warren Foegele

Pick a line and next stat will be part 2

Depends on when you're asking ... Winnik was a solid bottom four journeyman forward who stayed in the NHL mostly because his coaches could trust him (see +52 on his career plus/minus). He also played almost as many postseason games as JvR ... but interestingly, in 63 postseason games, Winnik never scored a goal, which is crazy for almost a season's worth of games for a forward (JvR scored 20 goals in 71 postseason tilts). Foegele can be a middle six forward with a lesser team, but he's basically been a 3rd line wing on two above-average teams so far in his career (Carolina and Edmonton). The jury is still out on him, but it looks like the Oilers are sticking with him into the third year of his contract, while offloading a guy like Yamamoto, so Kenny Holland appears to value him. But he's the only one of the three with a realistic shot at getting their name on the Cup, so that counts for something.

JvR was a very good (not great) NHL forward in his prime, but that's now in his rearview mirror. Winnik overachieved to stick in the league as long as he did, whilst Foegele can probably exceed Winnik's scoring stats, but it's probably 50-50 whether he matches Winnik's durability. JvR was (and still is) the most talented of the three, but there is still the sense that for a second overall draft pick, his career didn't quite live uo to the advanced hype, and his late move to Boston now feels like a "day late/dollar short" proposition.

From an NHL perspective, guys like Winnik and Foegele are a dime a dozen, while guys like JvR are (were) top of the lineup players who can make or break your franchise. Philly drafted him, and traded him after only three years, apparently thinking he underachieved, and then JvR blossomed in Toronto for 6 seasons, but when the rubber hit the road, after his top goal scoring season of his career, Toronto let him go to free agency, where the Flyers ran afould of the old "fool me once, shame on you ... fool me twice, shame on me" adage and rolled out the Brinks truck for another 5 years of JvR's good-but-not-great schtick. At the end of Year Five they literally couldn't give him away (which cost the Flyers' GM his job).

So with the benefit of ample hindsight, of the three, if I were an NHL GM I'd still choose JvR over the other two ... but he would be a 3rd liner for my team, and I wouldn't pay him more than $3MM-$4MM tops. If he's not accepting that, then I'm moving on and looking for other options, and if it comes down to paying Foegele $2.75M per OR JvR twice as much to basically be my 3rd line left wing, I'm taking Foegele as value for money.

[Felger]

Hey Snively

Not sure if you saw it but Seacoast Online did a story about Graham Bruder last week.

I was going to post the link but its behind a pay wall.

[norbert]

Depends on when you're asking ... Winnik was a solid bottom four journeyman forward who stayed in the NHL mostly because his coaches could trust him (see +52 on his career plus/minus). He also played almost as many postseason games as JvR ... but interestingly, in 63 postseason games, Winnik never scored a goal, which is crazy for almost a season's worth of games for a forward (JvR scored 20 goals in 71 postseason tilts). Foegele can be a middle six forward with a lesser team, but he's basically been a 3rd line wing on two above-average teams so far in his career (Carolina and Edmonton). The jury is still out on him, but it looks like the Oilers are sticking with him into the third year of his contract, while offloading a guy like Yamamoto, so Kenny Holland appears to value him. But he's the only one of the three with a realistic shot at getting their name on the Cup, so that counts for something.

JvR was a very good (not great) NHL forward in his prime, but that's now in his rearview mirror. Winnik overachieved to stick in the league as long as he did, whilst Foegele can probably exceed Winnik's scoring stats, but it's probably 50-50 whether he matches Winnik's durability. JvR was (and still is) the most talented of the three, but there is still the sense that for a second overall draft pick, his career didn't quite live uo to the advanced hype, and his late move to Boston now feels like a "day late/dollar short" proposition.

From an NHL perspective, guys like Winnik and Foegele are a dime a dozen, while guys like JvR are (were) top of the lineup players who can make or break your franchise. Philly drafted him, and traded him after only three years, apparently thinking he underachieved, and then JvR blossomed in Toronto for 6 seasons, but when the rubber hit the road, after his top goal scoring season of his career, Toronto let him go to free agency, where the Flyers ran afould of the old "fool me once, shame on you ... fool me twice, shame on me" adage and rolled out the Brinks truck for another 5 years of JvR's good-but-not-great schtick. At the end of Year Five they literally couldn't give him away (which cost the Flyers' GM his job).

So with the benefit of ample hindsight, of the three, if I were an NHL GM I'd still choose JvR over the other two ... but he would be a 3rd liner for my team, and I wouldn't pay him more than $3MM-$4MM tops. If he's not accepting that, then I'm moving on and looking for other options, and if it comes down to paying Foegele $2.75M per OR JvR twice as much to basically be my 3rd line left wing, I'm taking Foegele as value for money.

Correct. JVR was always more talented but agree that as a #2 pick you would have guessed better stats. Foegele doesn’t have the years so tough comparison on value but JVR earned to date $62M over 14 years and Winnik $13M.

[Darius]

So remember where you heard it first, Darius. ;-)

Twitter.

[Chuck Murray]

Correct. JVR was always more talented but agree that as a #2 pick you would have guessed better stats. Foegele doesn’t have the years so tough comparison on value but JVR earned to date $62M over 14 years and Winnik $13M.

I'm not so sure it's even a matter of "better stats", norbie. For all of the crap I've given him over his NHL career, stuff you can't contest includes the facts (1) he's never played in a single All-Star game, (2) he's never really lifted the teams he played on above the level of mediocre, (3) I'm pretty sure he's never worn a "C", (4) he's probably been more of a second line guy overall, and rarely a top line player (look at the rest of the guys on his teams), and (5) his stats have been juiced a little bit because he's become a PP specialist later in his career ... so the "third-line forward" criticism I've often leveled at him has admittedly been a slight exaggeration earlier in the prime of his career, but it fits like a glove now.

For a comparison to a guy that JvR might have become, had he been wired a little differently ... see Corey Perry, who like JvR is now winding his career down. He was drafted at the bottom of the first round (#28) in his draft year, so expectations for him weren't as high. If you look at his stats, he's not that different from JvR, as two guys who averaged roughly a goal every three games. But Perry had all the intangibles, lifted his teams earlier in his career, was a multiple-time All-Star, wore a "C" and won a Cup in Anaheim, has earned league-wide honors, and continues to be a sought after commodity in the NHL due to his intangibles. Despite being 3 years older than JvR, I'd say there's a pretty good chance Perry will still be in the league after JvR retires (or no longer earns an NHL contract) based on the non-stats things that Perry still does (check & hit).

Corey Perry Hockey Stats and Profile at hockeydb.com

You know for sure that once Perry retires, Anaheim puts on a night for him, and retires his jersey number.

That's just not gonna happen for JvR. He made a lot of money, no doubt - good for him. But I'd betcha he'd give back a few of those dollars to have what brother Trevor has - less (but comfortably enough) money, plus a Cup.

In other UNH NHL news ... Pittsburgh may be shopping soon-to-be 32 yr. old backup G Casey DeSmith ... stay tuned ...

[Chuck Murray]

Twitter.

* Yours truly posted it on here at 12:19 p.m. before it was a done deal, and before it hit Twitter

* Your post at 3:02 p.m. said the "B's welcomed him on Twitter an hour ago" (2:00 p.m.-ish?)

* My UNH sources have waned over the years, but my NHL sources are still razor sharp

* You're welcome ;-)

[Darius]

So remember where you heard it first, Darius. ;-)

* Yours truly posted it on here at 12:19 p.m. before it was a done deal, and before it hit Twitter

* Your post at 3:02 p.m. said the "B's welcomed him on Twitter an hour ago" (2:00 p.m.-ish?)

* My UNH sources have waned over the years, but my NHL sources are still razor sharp

* You're welcome ;-)

I first read it on Twitter about an hour after the Bs tweeted, came here to share the news, quoted your post to do so. Let's post excessively about where I read it first for a week or two. Not much else meaningful going on here.

The Bs also added BU alum Kevin Shattenkirk.

[Chuck Murray]

Interesting tidbit of info on UNH's former volunteer assistant goalie coach Ty Conklin in today's U-L, which otherwise focuses on Ty's golf game at his local track Breakfast Hill CC. Roger Brown does a nice job of burying the lede:

Conklin was working as UNH's volunteer goaltending coach — he and UNH head coach Mike Souza played together in college — but gave up that position midway through the 2022-23 season after he found that work was preventing him from getting to the rink as much as necessary.

Although many don't realize it, Conklin wasn't considered a prize recruit for UNH. He was a late bloomer who originally walked on at the University of Alaska-Anchorage before he returned to junior hockey. That's where he was discovered by former UNH assistant coach Brian McCloskey.

"I was on my visit right after Umile (former UNH coach Dick Umile) had his heart attack,"

Conklin said. "I don't even know if I met him. I was a guy who could come in maybe a little cheaper than some of the other guys. Top guys aren't getting recruited in April. They had Matile (goalie Sean Matile) and I came in the same year as (goalie) Matt Carney."

[Darius]

Interesting tidbit of info on UNH's former volunteer assistant goalie coach Ty Conklin in today's U-L, which otherwise focuses on Ty's golf game at his local track Breakfast Hill CC. Roger Brown does a nice job of burying the lede:

Um… it is a golf column. Thanks for posting. I would not have seen it otherwise :-) Full article was not behind a paywall for me: https://www.unionleader.com/sports/g...0559031a8.html