UNH Hockey 2023 Off Season Thread Turn and Face the Strange

[JB]

If I'm being honest norbert, I'm left with no option but to think one of two things happened during your Thursday meeting with MS7. One, he charmed your socks off, and you let him direct the conversation into areas which allowed him to trot out his litany of excuses. Or two, being the nice guy that you are, and chatting with a fellow nice guy, your sense of politeness didn't allow you to dig deep and demand answers to the tough questions. ...

... but despite your best intentions, you let MS7 off the hook.

Chuck I have know Norbert in the real world for 20+ years and I would not call him a "nice guy". More of a straight shooter who also understands you sometimes get more letting it come to you. I do feel like MS7 poured a little honey in his ear... at the same time I trust it was the best to let the conversation happen and turn 15-20 minutes of what would have been stonewalling into 2 hours of conversational insight.

For example, MS7 wants to create a coach's club to allow fan access to have these conversations to engage with fans and also raise money but it seems like a struggle to get it to become a reality.

This is where I get on MS7. A struggle to become reality is an excuse. Some of this stuff needs a force of will to make it happen. If he truly wants it to happen, he finds his way through hard work to bring it to life. Victim thinking "it is hard, bad things happen to me, it is others fault"... Accountability thinking "what can I do?"... This is an example of MS7 making excuses and being a victim and that in itself explains a lot about the state of the hockey program. I HATE the facilities excuses (see Dan's post and the excellent Miami-Ohio example) and at the same time I understand those upgrades, all that money is outside of MS7 control. Creating a coaches club, freaking figure it out, that is in his control.

[Darius]

You seem to be suggesting the Big 10 football schools will share their revenues with other departments like hockey. I'm skeptical that they will, as they'll always find another hottub that the football team needs.
But that was the premise to my question, which was that if we are already seeing the impact of these revenue differences, then (a) how do you explain the other non-big revenue teams still able to succeed, and (b) in your future scenario, the "haves" will really only be the big 10 schools, and BC/BU/North Dakota. Or should we expect UNH to fare worse than most of the other college programs?

I can envision the NCAA, thinking it will apply to football and basketball, letting schools pay players, but paying is allowed for any sport. It is easy for the B1G - all conference teams can pay in all sports or an agreed to subset of sports. Schools in the other conferences that compete with B1G teams have to figure it out. The conferences themselves would find agreement from member teams difficult. In HEA, BC (ACC) is paying football and basketball players so paying hockey players is not a big leap. State funded schools like UNH, UMO, etc. find it very difficult if not impossible impossible to pay. They will have to be creative (NIL?) and perhaps face very difficult decisions such as whether to remain in what is currently Division I. UNH is in a better place than it was a few years ago to make these creative and difficult decisions. Many teams will be caught in the middle. BU has plenty of dough, but what do they want their athletics program to be? Providence (already paying basketball players?) might find it easier. Bottom line, it will be a mess across a sport like hockey and within some conferences. The haves will have more, the others will have less. I don't think UNH will fare worse than most other programs. They will have lots of company.

edit: As far as explaining other non-big revenue teams still able to succeed, I get it. No one, myself included, is happy with the team's performance over the past few years. The coaching staff has to own that.

[Darius]

For example, MS7 wants to create a coach's club to allow fan access to have these conversations to engage with fans and also raise money but it seems like a struggle to get it to become a reality.

I will say this...if Mike Souza really wants a "Coaches Club" then make it happen. I really wonder if he does but like I have already mentioned there is a group who has met with like minded fans. This group you speak of would prob talk concerns not glorifying the coach...(With hopefully useful solutions)

I wonder how it would be received if a fan approached AD Rich and Coach Souza and said they would like to work with UNH to create and help run a Coaches Club to support the program. The vision is an organization that is structured, works with and is supported by UNH as the football 'cat Club is. "We are preliminarily organized, have lots of people who would pay a yearly membership fee. We also have a core group willing to volunteer their time to help organize, help create bylaws and if desired by the U and elected by the members, serve agreed to terms as organization officers."

[HockeyRef]

I w
I wonder how it would be received if a fan approached AD Rich and Coach Souza and said they would like to work with UNH to create and help run a Coaches Club to support the program. The vision is an organization that is structured, works with and is supported by UNH as the football 'cat Club is. "We are preliminarily organized, have lots of people who would pay a yearly membership fee. We also have a core group willing to volunteer their time to help organize, help create bylaws and if desired by the U and elected by the members, serve agreed to terms as organization officers."

I wonder as well how that would be received; wonder if that group who has met a couple of times has done that? From the names I've heard most are former FOH members. So if Coach Souza
really wants this to come to fruition, and it seems he is interested in doing just that according to Norbert...then let him be the one to initiate it. When I joined the former group, it was for
one reason only; to support the program. I really didn't know much about Dick Umile other than the basics of who he was, and his past accomplishments.

The last thing I'd join any group would be to have sole interest in the coach...it wasn't about that then, and it wouldn't be about that now. Seems to me, he (Coach) has a lot on
his plate this season...lets see if this actually happens and if he is the one that brings it about...

Are there other groups besides this football group doing anything formal like you mention? I'd think UNH has guidelines in place for such group formation (formal that is).

[Chuck Murray]

Chuck I have know Norbert in the real world for 20+ years and I would not call him a "nice guy". More of a straight shooter who also understands you sometimes get more letting it come to you. I do feel like MS7 poured a little honey in his ear... at the same time I trust it was the best to let the conversation happen and turn 15-20 minutes of what would have been stonewalling into 2 hours of conversational insight.

To be clear, I don't mean to sound unappreciative, and unless norbert is a professional interviewer/interrogator, then it's not an easy task to pull off as an amateur. Definitely one of those "harder than it looks" things for sure. Due to the nature of my day job, I'm a little more comfortable with dealing in adversarial terms than most folks are. JB, your point is well taken and accurate - sometimes you do get more out of listening and letting your subject lead the discussion. But here's the thing ... let's say you listen for 90+ minutes and let your subject touch on all of his points ... wouldn't the subject be left somewhat hesitant - out of a sense of fairness - to shut down that final section of the discussion where you DO ask some frank, potentially difficult questions? I mean, you let him go for 90 minutes ... and he can't give you some run for a final 15-20 minutes???

Maybe the argument then is, were the final 15-20 minutes of hard questioning worth ending the chance of future discussions? In this instance, I'm not sure norbert had any expectations for future discussions? I don't know how he got the opportunity, and I don't know if there were any ground rules going in? It didn't seem like there were any ground rules, other than decency (and that's typical/fine). If there was no expectation of any further discussions ... what do you lose then by "going hard" the final 15-20 minutes, after letting your subject lead his guided tour for 90 minutes? Nothing, right?? Unless you have developed an expectation that, just maybe, this might turn into more than a one-off thing? And then you may indeed be hesitant to interrogate your subject at the end as I've suggested, in what may very well have turned into a very fluid situation.

But if you never get around to asking the tough questions - be it the first time, second time, or the last time - you basically become a glorified stenographer for your subject.

norbert did a good job of collecting information on a lot of different off-the-ice issues, I don't want to overlook that. But as far as on-ice issues, he has to get an incomplete. norbert - do you think you'll get a second bite of the apple?

[Chuck Murray]

I wonder how it would be received if a fan approached AD Rich and Coach Souza and said they would like to work with UNH to create and help run a Coaches Club to support the program. The vision is an organization that is structured, works with and is supported by UNH as the football 'cat Club is. "We are preliminarily organized, have lots of people who would pay a yearly membership fee. We also have a core group willing to volunteer their time to help organize, help create bylaws and if desired by the U and elected by the members, serve agreed to terms as organization officers."

Why do we have to pussyfoot around and call it "Coaches Club"? Why not just call it "Friends of UNH Hockey"??

[HockeyRef]

Why do we have to pussyfoot around and call it "Coaches Club"? Why not just call it "Friends of UNH Hockey"??

Bingo. But just some info, there were a few 'tiers' of the former FOH one could join, depending on the $$ you wanted to spend. The
former 'coaches club' was one step up from the basic membership (if I have that right) which got you into just about all of the
events. If you wanted to spend more $$, you got invites to more 'exclusive' events like 'senior night' etc...

I doubt I'd join a new group if it were 'coach centric'....

[Chuck Murray]

In retrospect, I think a question that could have lent insight into how MS7 views the relative importance of facilities can/should be framed in the future this way:

"Coach Souza, when you were a player, you were part of the second recruiting class to matriculate as frosh players at a brand-new Whittemore Center ('96/'97). What role did those brand-new facilities play in your decision as a then-18 yr. old kid coming to Durham? Who recruited you for UNH, and what did they sell you on? How much weight did you give to the program's tradition, as well as their current status back then as an annual NCAA contender? How much weight did you put on the coaching staff's ability to advance your career to the next level, where you'd be drafted in the 3rd round of the NHL Draft at the end of your freshman year? Did other schools compete to recruit you as a player, and how did you arrive at your decision to come to UNH?"

There's a lot of compelling details to be pulled from that line of questioning to apply to how he recruits as a coach now.

[Snively65]

I am sorry, but I am now thinking that MS7 is even more of a fraud as a coach and recruiter than I thought he was. I am just not buying any of what MS7 is trying to sell us through Norbert.

“Coach’s Club”? Come on, get real, MS7. There is a reason why the mainstream media are no longer interested in talking to you about the hockey program; the answer lies in the past eight years of your record, and the previous two years of your predecessor’s.

The past decade has been much worse than the mediocrity of the previous decade following our run that essentially ended after 2003. I would be happy with some mediocrity at this point. Perpetual 9th, 10th, and 11th place finishes in HEA and south of 30 in Div 1 PWR year after year is sub-mediocrity.

[HockeyRef]

This just hit me...when has Ben Barr ever mentioned his facilities as a stumbling block..checks notes they finished where.in HE this season???

Instead...he (Barr) sends his fans a heartfelt note thanking them for their support and it was more than obvious he has a special affinity for his players.

Not saying the same needed to happen on our end but gee alittle outward news other than "I can't win because my facility" would be a start..

Ps...and I have been guilty of this axiom "blame is the surest way to stay stuck in a situation"

[Sean Pickett]

For example, MS7 wants to create a coach's club to allow fan access to have these conversations to engage with fans and also raise money but it seems like a struggle to get it to become a reality.

I've been reading about the demise of the UNH Friends of Hockey here and it reminds me very much of what happened to the BU Friends of Hockey. After Coach Parker retired BU took over the FOH and it ended as an actual organization. All benefits that used to be offered were stopped, the FOH room was shut down and it was nothing other than a fund-raising arm of the university (although under Coach O'Connell the FOH room was reopened for most(?) games). Furthermore, Coach Quinn created a Coach's Cabinet which in reality is an exclusive (BU's word) fund-raising version of the FOH as the minimum buy-in is $3,000. BU also offers premium seats, which are completely separate from both FOH and the Coach's Cabinet, but at least does give you some game day perks (parking; elevator direct from the garage to the concourse; pre-game dinner; club room access).

Before games BU FOH used to offer a pre-game meal (if you paid for it) and after the games you could met the players and their families. When she was young my daughter used to wait for the players to enter, aong with the other young children of families and Friends. FOH also used to organize an away trip every season, an annual pre-game parent's night dinner and a claim bake with lobster pre-game once a season. These and other FOH organized events, which used to foster friendship and getting to know other FOH members and player's families are all long gone.

Sean

[Darius]

Why do we have to pussyfoot around and call it "Coaches Club"? Why not just call it "Friends of UNH Hockey"??

I dunno. Ask Norbert or Mike. If it were up to me it would be called the Friendly Coach’s Club That Worships Darius The All Exultant Grand Imperial Mega Posting Wizard.

Club.

[HockeyRef]

I dunno. Ask Norbert or Mike. If it were up to me it would be called the Friendly Coach’s Club That Worships Darius The All Exultant Grand Imperial Mega Posting Wizard.

Club.

Now there's an org I can get behind. I'll be a charter member...

[Chuck Murray]

If it were up to me it would be called the Friendly Coach's Club That Worships Darius The All Exultant Grand Imperial Mega Posting Wizard.

Club.

That's FCCTWDTAEGIMPW(C) for "short". Or just The Grand Wizard between all of us pals on the UNH thread ...

[HockeyRef]

Foegele!