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UNH Men's Hockey 2022 Off Season Thread- Goodbye Lake Whitt!

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  • Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post

    P.S. to Mon Dieu - this would be an added bonus, if you can find it in Your heart to make it happen.

    I do not wish to be gluttonous, but if this falls within Your plan, don't let me stop You.

    (signed) Chuck Murray
    Self-appointed WIS President-for-Life (behind You of course)
    ....but would we still lose to UConn most of the time...lol Somehow, I can picture your prayers being said in this fashion....
    Here we go 'Cats!!

    Comment


    • Originally posted by sigx15 View Post
      he's a monster recruiter
      Is he? Do you have any evidence of this beyond BC landing top talent and liking Mike Ayers? BC was a recruiting wagon long before Ayers was on staff, continued to be during his early years as second assistant and will be long after he leaves. If anything they've slipped from a results perspective since he's taken a larger role on the staff. Perhaps more of the recruiting credit goes to the constant (Jerry York)...

      First, its high time we move past this antiquated notion that HC's aren't - or don't need to be - their program's best recruiter (Earth to Umile!). Its not the 1970's where assistants take two month road trips through western Canada to unearth talent. You don't think Jerry York can make it to an NTDP/USHL camp or showcase? Even if he couldn't, every game at every recruitable level is available via online stream and identifying talent takes moments. In home visits - especially during an era of early recruiting - may still happen on occasion, but they're not an integral or regular part of recruiting. You don't think York can pick up a phone? Schedule a zoom call? Meet with a prospect on an unofficial visit? The actually act selling recruits can happen in any number of ways - and the message, regardless of who's delivering it can be set, managed and constructed by anyone within the organization (or the organization itself).

      This is the same story we heard about Mike Souza - including posters in this thread insisting he deserve credit as a top recruiter because he was a personable guy and UConn had talent. Even when quotes from players themselves listed Cavanaugh as the decisive recruiter we were told we were being negative for not giving the credit to Souza. Being a nice guy and being on staff doesn't make you an impactful recruiter.

      In an MSU thread I followed (not on USCHO), someone made a great point about their supposed pursuit of Adam Nightingale (Noted great guy, assumed great recruiter because of likeability alone). The point was simple: who else would hire him and would he be a realistic MSU candidate if he had graduated from any other school. The answer is clearly no. Just as the reality around Souza was clear then - and more clear now; He would not have made even preliminary UNH HC discussions had he not been an alum and liked by Umile/Admin/Fans. The results have proven that and speak for themselves...

      Ayers certainly has more experience and a better track record - and has one thing Souza has never had, success and exposure with a winning culture/program - but would he be a name in consideration at UNH if he wasn't a former All-American in Durham? Doubtful. Where else is he a legitimate candidate? Certainly not at BC. Their fan base would be extremely disappointed if he was hired to replace York, and many seem as if they'd be happy to see him move on from his assistant job, to be quite honest.

      The recruiting hype and media coverage that surrounded guys like Jerry Keefe and Ben Barr was significant and included outside sources, peer evaluations and concrete examples of landing players. Has any of that existed around Ayers? Or is this simply a discussion based on that fact that we like him, so recruits clearly would (furthermore, in what world does liking a recruiter necessarily indicate a commitment. I'd bet my life savings that most of the kids who have said no to Souza like him just fine)...

      When the UNH jobs opens, I have no issue for Ayers to be considered - but there is no way he should be clamored for and he's certainly not a favorite. He'd have A LOT to prove in an interview and he'd have to win the job. If an AD is not asking significant questions about his role in recruiting to BC and/or how he would be able to recruit disconnected from the BC recruiting machine they're involved in wishful thinking and abdicating responsibility.

      Everywhere he went, HC's and players gave Barr major recruiting kudos - media ran with these stories based on first hand accounts. He did it at multiple schools for multiple HC's. None of that ever existed for Souza, despite many trying insinuate it had. If I'm wrong, please point me in the direction where this exists for Ayers? No anecdotes. Proven examples.

      If a UNH alum is the fit, fantastic - but it's an entirely irrelevant line on the resume and often a lazy way to float potential connections and candidates. Ask yourself why you'd clamor for Ayers at UNH, but not as York's replacement or as a candidate for the BC job. And then ask yourself why that might be...
      Last edited by Dan; 04-14-2022, 10:58 AM.
      Live Free or Die!!
      Miami University '03

      Comment


      • Here's an article in the Union Leader (was able to read without a paywall) about the rink shrink thing. Interesting actual quotes about how 'high profile defensemen commits didn't want to come to UNH because of the rink size". Anyway, if it's really going to help with recruiting, I guess that will remain to be seen and I hope it does pan out for everyone's sake.

        EDIT: I see a pay wall shows up with this link, but here's the verbiage about commits (not saying that's NOT true and maybe there were players who didn't want to play for UNH because of the size of the ice)


        Having a closer-to-NHL-size rink will benefit UNH in recruiting and better its chances to host an NCAA regional if the NCAA eventually moves back to using college sites for that round of the tournament, Scarano said.


        The big sheet was a deterrent to some high-profile defensemen UNH tried to recruit over the years, Scarano said.


        Scarano said the smaller width should also make for a better game, especially on the women’s side. (HR's comment: the size of the ice was not a deterrent when we hosted the women's Frozen Four a few seasons back?? And, women can't skate that ice sheet?)


        Last edited by HockeyRef; 04-14-2022, 10:57 AM.
        Here we go 'Cats!!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
          Here's an article in the Union Leader (was able to read without a paywall) about the rink shrink thing. Interesting actual quotes about how 'high profile defensemen commits didn't want to come to UNH because of the rink size". Anyway, if it's really going to help with recruiting, I guess that will remain to be seen and I hope it does pan out for everyone's sake.

          EDIT: I see a pay wall shows up with this link, but here's the verbiage about commits (not saying that's NOT true and maybe there were players who didn't want to play for UNH because of the size of the ice)


          Having a closer-to-NHL-size rink will benefit UNH in recruiting and better its chances to host an NCAA regional if the NCAA eventually moves back to using college sites for that round of the tournament, Scarano said.


          The big sheet was a deterrent to some high-profile defensemen UNH tried to recruit over the years, Scarano said.


          Scarano said the smaller width should also make for a better game, especially on the women’s side. (HR's comment: the size of the ice was not a deterrent when we hosted the women's Frozen Four a few seasons back?? And, women can't skate that ice sheet?)

          I mean absolutely no offense to you Ref (just personal frustration with UNH's continued accountability free messaging), but I don't find that an interesting quote at all - it would be interesting if it was quoted and attributed to the actual defenseman. It would be interesting if we knew the entire story of that defenseman's recruiting and the entirety of how/why they made their decision. It might be interesting if we knew where that defenseman ended up and why. It would be interesting if there weren't hundreds of other defensemen in every recruiting class.

          No, that's a generic, anecdotal, excuse driven justification for shrinking the rink and nothing more. Would the rink size have mattered to that defenseman if UNH had a different HC? Was winning?

          Kids don't make their decisions based on one factor alone - ever - with the possible exception of money. So pretending the decision was based solely on rink size is nothing a way to pat yourself on the back, rationalize the result, duck accountability and self-evaluation, and give yourself a pass for losing a prospect because it was all out of your hands...

          EDIT - Im much more on board with the skepticism in your edits!
          Last edited by Dan; 04-14-2022, 11:06 AM.
          Live Free or Die!!
          Miami University '03

          Comment


          • Originally posted by Dan View Post
            This is the same story we heard about Mike Souza - including posters in this thread insisting he deserve credit as a top recruiter because he was a personable guy and UConn had talent. Even when quotes from players themselves listed Cavanaugh as the decisive recruiter we were told we were being negative for not giving the credit to Souza. Being a nice guy and being on staff doesn't make you an impactful recruiter.
            I'm sorry, I must have missed the battle for credit to the "talent" at U.Conn recruited by Souza/Cavanaugh.
            U.CONN 2013-2015
            8/7/2013 Will Golonka 13-0-0-0
            9/4/2013 Miles Gendron 126-10-2333
            9/29/2013 Jeff Wight 62-6-7-13
            10/11/2013 Ben Freeman 135-25-52-77
            10/15/2013 Liam Murphy DNP
            10/22/2013 Corey Ronan 133-19-24-43
            11/18/2013 Kasperi Ojantakanen 127-13-32-45
            1/29/2014 Will Garin DNP
            1/30/2014 Spencer Naas 143-49-28-77
            2/9/2014 Johnny Austin 127-8-36-44
            2/26/2014 Marco Richter 21-1-0-1
            3/26/2014 Tyson McLellan DNP
            4/29/2014 David Drake 124-4-21-25
            7/27/2014 Tage Thompson 70-33-31-64
            11/27/2014 Connor Mayer DNP
            2/3/2015 Tanner Creel 21 Games
            2/9/2015 Mike Young DNP
            3/23/2015 Adam Karashik 119-5-19-24
            4/6/2015 Evan Wisocky 48-0-15-15
            4/22/2015 Max Kalter 135-19-41-60
            I think you must be remembering Tage Thompson, the one high profile kid they got. (Curiously, U.Conn's recruiting picked up noticeably after Souza left.)

            The greatest trick the devil played was convincing Umile he could recruit.
            Last edited by NCAA watcher; 04-14-2022, 11:10 AM.
            The Umile legacy:
            14-15 8th place,
            15-16 10th place
            16-17 10th place
            17-18 11th place
            18-19 8th place
            19-20 9th place
            20-21 10th place
            21-22 9th place

            Comment


            • Originally posted by NCAA watcher View Post

              I'm sorry, I must have missed the battle for credit to the "talent" at U.Conn recruited by Souza/Cavanaugh.

              I think you must be remembering Tage Thompson, the one high profile kid they got. (Curiously, U.Conn's recruiting picked up noticeably after Souza left.)
              You must have - because there was quite a commotion about how it was Souza who led the charge for top UConn kids, how the disagreeable were uninformed and unnecessarily negative, and how it was Souza alone who opened up the UConn to Minnesota pipeline (despite said Minnesota recruit directly contributing his attendance to the head coach in print media). I don't remember the recruit or I'd search for article...

              I argued at the time that the talent wasn't even any good (the point you make now) and how the recruits themselves indicated Cavanaugh was leading the process - but UNH posters in UNH threads ABSOLUTELY tried to make the case that UConn was landing significant talent - and that it was primarily due to Souza...

              I don't disagree with your point - at all - but that battle WAS waged.
              Last edited by Dan; 04-14-2022, 11:15 AM.
              Live Free or Die!!
              Miami University '03

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Dan View Post

                I mean absolutely no offense to you Ref (just personal frustration with UNH's continued accountability free messaging), but I don't find that an interesting quote at all - it would be interesting if it was quoted and attributed to the actual defenseman. It would be interesting if we knew the entire story of that defenseman's recruiting and the entirety of how/why they made their decision. It might be interesting if we knew where that defenseman ended up and why. It would be interesting if there weren't hundreds of other defensemen in every recruiting class.

                No, that's a generic, anecdotal, excuse driven justification for shrinking the rink and nothing more. Would the rink size have mattered to that defenseman if UNH had a different HC? Was winning?

                Kids don't make their decisions based on one factor alone - ever - with the possible exception of money. So pretending the decision was based solely on rink size is nothing a way to pat yourself on the back, rationalize the result, duck accountability and self-evaluation, and give yourself a pass for losing a prospect because it was all out of your hands...

                EDIT - Im much more on board with the skepticism in your edits!
                Hey Dan no offense taken; I am being skeptical about the quotes being just straight up facts as they just throw that out, that's the 'interesting' part of it and I should have qualified that! Thing is, if players only used ice size as THE determining factor or, at best, a top 3 determining factor, who would skate for the successful programs who DO use the Olympic ice sheet...We've had these convos before, but it's just "interesting" it still gets trotted out as a BIG reason UNH isn't hanging a banner... And since I always qualify what I say, sure, there's prob kids who didn't skate for UNH because of that reason (not the banner lol). Somehow, I doubt we'd ever find out or would it be known that a player didn't skate (a high profile one, esp) because of that. Shucks, these days we don't even get decent media coverage or pressers like we used to ha! Seems to me if you can't stand the heat don't go in the kitchen...
                Last edited by HockeyRef; 04-14-2022, 02:09 PM.
                Here we go 'Cats!!

                Comment


                • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                  ....but would we still lose to UConn most of the time...lol Somehow, I can picture your prayers being said in this fashion....
                  Actually, I can show you a quick video of me practicing my prayers this morning before posting ...
                   
                  Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                  Montreal Expos Forever ...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by cavbim View Post
                    isn't it UNH's modus operandi that if your coach leverages a large state school head coaching job you give them a lifetime contract with a huge raise
                    Fair point. Although my understanding of "leverage" involves fomenting strife between two or more parties over an object or service that would be a highly desirous target of acquisition for all parties, so I'm not sure if MS7's modest string of (mostly) Top Ten finishes in HEA would suffice? At least Captain Turtleneck could wave a winning record and a decade's worth of his program's ascent to what were by then two trips to the FF as the bait; whereas the current leveragor (sp?) would likely finish a distant second in a "Which mediocrity should we hire?" contest with the immortal Paul Pooley.

                    Not a good start. But apparently he is still tight with Umile, so maybe MS7 can develop the supersonic speedy squeaky voice stylings of his mentor, and maybe the rubes up here will start to take him seriously - especially with the local paisan detector leaving soon for Upstate New York??

                    That's what I would do, but no one's asking me, so I'll keep praying for MS7's safe passage to Storrs.
                    Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                    Montreal Expos Forever ...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Dan View Post
                      You must have - because there was quite a commotion about how it was Souza who led the charge for top UConn kids, how the disagreeable were uninformed and unnecessarily negative, and how it was Souza alone who opened up the UConn to Minnesota pipeline (despite said Minnesota recruit directly contributing his attendance to the head coach in print media). I don't remember the recruit or I'd search for article...

                      I argued at the time that the talent wasn't even any good (the point you make now) and how the recruits themselves indicated Cavanaugh was leading the process - but UNH posters in UNH threads ABSOLUTELY tried to make the case that UConn was landing significant talent - and that it was primarily due to Souza...

                      I don't disagree with your point - at all - but that battle WAS waged.
                      Dan, I agree with 99.9% of what you've posted today. I don't remember any large-scale commotion or battles over "credit" due to MS7 over Luce for what was then (arguably still is?) a mediocre UConn hockey program, though. But I do remember you were on the winning side of the discussion (not sure who your opposition was?). Maybe it was only a "skirmish"?? ;-)
                      Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                      Montreal Expos Forever ...

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by HockeyRef View Post
                        Here's an article in the Union Leader (was able to read without a paywall) about the rink shrink thing. Interesting actual quotes about how 'high profile defensemen commits didn't want to come to UNH because of the rink size". Anyway, if it's really going to help with recruiting, I guess that will remain to be seen and I hope it does pan out for everyone's sake.

                        EDIT: I see a pay wall shows up with this link, but here's the verbiage about commits (not saying that's NOT true and maybe there were players who didn't want to play for UNH because of the size of the ice)

                        Having a closer-to-NHL-size rink will benefit UNH in recruiting and better its chances to host an NCAA regional if the NCAA eventually moves back to using college sites for that round of the tournament, Scarano said.

                        The big sheet was a deterrent to some high-profile defensemen UNH tried to recruit over the years, Scarano said.

                        Scarano said the smaller width should also make for a better game, especially on the women's side. (HR's comment: the size of the ice was not a deterrent when we hosted the women's Frozen Four a few seasons back?? And, women can't skate that ice sheet?)
                        You beat me to this one today, HR (glad to see you reading the UL!). Funny thing is, I dismissed the "we missed out on recruit X" for the same reasons Dan outlined in detail already. I frankly overlooked Blue Skies' potentially sexist comments, because I'd stumbled onto a factoid in the article that runs counter to what one or two other posters have posted here recently, to wit:

                        Along with reducing the width of the ice, the $6 million renovations also include installing new glass, more forgiving NHL-style boards and a new sound system. The arena’s ice compressors were upgraded two years ago.

                        My recollection for justification of moving forward with the project was because (1) "we need to upgrade the ice compressors ASAP, and (2) while we're at it, let's do the rest of the "shrink-the-rink" project to "save on costs" of doing some work twice.

                        Turns out, the compressor work was apparently done 2 years ago?!? Talk about "burying the lede" ...
                        Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                        Montreal Expos Forever ...

                        Comment


                        • Dan is right. Because Souza's actual record was wafer thin, we were all parsing any clues to find a basis for the claim that he was a master recruiter. In that search, there were a couple of apologists who looked at Tage Thompson, an NHL first rounder, and Connor Mayer, a higher regarded Minnesotan, and tried to find the source of their commitment to U.Conn from their generic "I liked the coaches" quotes.

                          I was not forgetting the debate, just pointing out that at the time, and with the benefit of hindsight, the early U.Conn recruiting was pretty meh. I certainly picked up after Souza left, and they brought in last year's senior class of NHL picks like Firstov, Kondalek, the Islander second pick Ruslan something, the Russian defenseman, and Evans/Turnbull.
                          They now have clearly surpassed UNH, with Tverberg, Wood, an NHL first rounder, and even Jake Richards, a kid who has played well in the USHL. Must be nice to have a program on the rise.

                          It remains remarkable to me reading the 2015 hiring stories B.S. about how Souza was likely the top guy but he had to earn it - "if things go as expected...blah blah blah." Nine years later and he's never gotten better than an incomplete, a couple of C minus/D plus' and we're still waiting for accountability. The good news is we're at 328 days until the next HE bottom feeder play-in game, after which.....



                          edit: The debate was with Mr. Smith (UNH1932?)

                          We never did quite finish that discussion. Let's count Thompson, a first rounder, as his. The other "top players" were Masonius, who came to U.Conn from UNH after Souza left, and Letunov, who also fell into U.Conn's lap after Souza left. Leaving aside the seniors who Souza did not recruit (Pauly and Kirkland), and you're really left with defenseman Miles Gendron, an NHL pick who had a nice freshman year.

                          Is Mr. Smith referring to recruits who have not set foot on campus. Adam Karashuk, who is a good prospect in the USHL (better than his teammate Corson Green), but hardly a blue chippah. Is he counting Evan Wisocky, who is a pretty decent prospect, but had 5 points his rookie USHL season, sort of like Eric Esposito? Again, hardly a blue chippah. So, in actuality, he recruited one top player, and the other two came after he left. He has a couple decent prospects, but none that would warrant the conclusion "Mike Souza is a great recruiter as he essentially beat UNH out for 4 of the best players on the UConn team. I know some will give all the credit to Cavanaugh but they were not his recruits. They started beating us out for the top players that BC/BU/now Prov did not pursue wholeheartedly and Northeastern has beaten us out for some top players."

                          If you want to go back to his two years at Brown, there's nothing that screams "great recruiter."

                          Last thought. Bazin and Lowell have shown that the "late bloomer" lightly recruited player model can work. It is a very hard needle to thread, and lots of team have shown it doesnt work.
                          SEE LESS | GO TO POST
                          Last edited by NCAA watcher; 09-11-2016, 10:11 AM.
                          Last edited by NCAA watcher; 04-14-2022, 02:58 PM.
                          The Umile legacy:
                          14-15 8th place,
                          15-16 10th place
                          16-17 10th place
                          17-18 11th place
                          18-19 8th place
                          19-20 9th place
                          20-21 10th place
                          21-22 9th place

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post

                            You beat me to this one today, HR (glad to see you reading the UL!). Funny thing is, I dismissed the "we missed out on recruit X" for the same reasons Dan outlined in detail already. I frankly overlooked Blue Skies' potentially sexist comments, because I'd stumbled onto a factoid in the article that runs counter to what one or two other posters have posted here recently, to wit:

                            Along with reducing the width of the ice, the $6 million renovations also include installing new glass, more forgiving NHL-style boards and a new sound system. The arena’s ice compressors were upgraded two years ago.

                            My recollection for justification of moving forward with the project was because (1) "we need to upgrade the ice compressors ASAP, and (2) while we're at it, let's do the rest of the "shrink-the-rink" project to "save on costs" of doing some work twice.

                            Turns out, the compressor work was apparently done 2 years ago?!? Talk about "burying the lede" ...
                            Actually, I don't read the UL....do you really think this bleeding heart of a liberal would read that paper?? Saw the article on Twitter and was surprised I could read it as there's normally a pay wall up. I used to read the seacoast/concordmonitor esp when my daughter was writing for them and still catch UNH hockey news on seacoastonline when there is some...sorry to get your hopes up :-) And yes, make the game more fun to watch, especially for the women's program UGH.

                            ps..nice touch with the Holy Grail clip...never gets old!
                            Last edited by HockeyRef; 04-14-2022, 03:01 PM.
                            Here we go 'Cats!!

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Chuck Murray View Post

                              You beat me to this one today, HR (glad to see you reading the UL!). Funny thing is, I dismissed the "we missed out on recruit X" for the same reasons Dan outlined in detail already. I frankly overlooked Blue Skies' potentially sexist comments, because I'd stumbled onto a factoid in the article that runs counter to what one or two other posters have posted here recently, to wit:

                              Along with reducing the width of the ice, the $6 million renovations also include installing new glass, more forgiving NHL-style boards and a new sound system. The arena’s ice compressors were upgraded two years ago.

                              My recollection for justification of moving forward with the project was because (1) "we need to upgrade the ice compressors ASAP, and (2) while we're at it, let's do the rest of the "shrink-the-rink" project to "save on costs" of doing some work twice.

                              Turns out, the compressor work was apparently done 2 years ago?!? Talk about "burying the lede" ...
                              Compressors are not the issue being addressed with the rework of the ice-side plumbing.
                              Signature line intentionally left blank.

                              Comment


                              • Quick fun trip in the WIS Way-Back Machine for the following clip of a very recent interview with Mike Milbury. Go to 11:40 on the player for his recollection of the Count Cedorchuk Era and its aftermath, which of course led to the fateful hiring of Coach York.

                                Gives me goosebumps. Oh, for the good ol' days ...

                                Mike Milbury does not like Bruce Cassidy calling out players publicly - The Greg Hill Show - Omny.fm
                                Sworn Enemy of the Perpetually Offended
                                Montreal Expos Forever ...

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