RPI 2022 Off-season: Surely, We Deserve Better

[rpi82]

Kjellberg to northern Michigan.

Hmmm....another one that is a bit perplexing. Perhaps the UP reminds him of Sweden...........

[rpi82]

Probably just another method for the strong to get stronger. Some of the boys might be thought to have used their playing time at a lower rated school to demonstrate to the top tier schools that they are worthy enough. Sort of like playing in the minor leagues, doing really well, then get promoted to the majors.

I think this is absolutely true. The model for the big shot programs will be to continue recruiting their boat load of 4-5 star, 1st-3rd round draft picks that will stay for 1-3 years. They will fill holes in the roster and the need for veteran leadership by bringing in 23-24 year old grad students. Unlike basketball, where even at mid-majors no one seems to care whether the players graduate, a significant percentage of hockey rising "seniors" have already graduated (or could graduate with a few summer classes) because they entered as a 20 or even 21 year old with several years of community college or online credits. Last year we wondered why 21 year old "freshman" Jim McIsaac was at home in Alberta when the first years were supposed to be on campus. My bet is that he had enough credits to be classified as an academic sophomore and that class was supposed to be operating remotely for at least the fall term.

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 8 April 2022. There are 176 days until RPI's next game. There are 84 days (12 weeks) until RPI has a new president.


This is based upon 1 October 2022 for the start of next season and 1 July 2022 for the end of @#$%^.

[puckit717]

its been a long time but i have returned!! can we finally make it to placid next year?

[DrDemento]

I think this is absolutely true. The model for the big shot programs will be to continue recruiting their boat load of 4-5 star, 1st-3rd round draft picks that will stay for 1-3 years. They will fill holes in the roster and the need for veteran leadership by bringing in 23-24 year old grad students. Unlike basketball, where even at mid-majors no one seems to care whether the players graduate, a significant percentage of hockey rising "seniors" have already graduated (or could graduate with a few summer classes) because they entered as a 20 or even 21 year old with several years of community college or online credits. Last year we wondered why 21 year old "freshman" Jim McIsaac was at home in Alberta when the first years were supposed to be on campus. My bet is that he had enough credits to be classified as an academic sophomore and that class was supposed to be operating remotely for at least the fall term.

I had some second thoughts about making my original post. It galls me to even think that we have become a second tier hockey program that is being used as a training ground for some of the perennial top tier schools. I hope this is not now true and does not become so. I hope we could be one of the schools that picks the cherries from the portal. I have not yet seen enough to know. i do not in any way blame any of the boys as things have been changing in the hockey world. There are lots of boys who realize they are not going to be NHL or even AHL material and come to school for a quality education at a place where they can still play competitive top level hockey at the same time (and fulfill a dream of at least trying to further a hockey career). But there are others that the education is secondary and are simply trying to further a hockey career. For these boys time is of the essence as they have to make their impressions quickly with so much competition from non college players and the onslaught of European talent. They are forced to test the waters for opportunities and have to make their moves quickly. The higher echelon professional leagues are far more interested in younger players than 25 year old college graduates (perhaps with the exception of the goalie position). With the loss of time due to pandemic shutdowns, this has been greatly accentuated. At RPI we still retain the advantage of offering a first rate education and degree programs that players can fall back uon and call on for a successful career outside of hockey.

[rpi82]

Well Doc, I think we can still win under that system. A few years back some of the big boys tried to push through a change that would have reduced the eligibility threshold. Now you only lose time if you play juniors past your 21st birthday (and if IIRC you can even game that a little if they are enrolled in a CC so the player becomes a transfer using a redshirt year). They wanted to lower it. Watching Minnesota - Minnesota State last night the reason was clear - they don't want to see their prize 18 and 19 year old draft picks beaten by a well-coached team of older men. Not that we will be going back to the finals any time soon, but I happen to think that a guy like Coach Smith, whose teams play a pretty well structured game, is the kind that can take a group of mature, reasonably skilled players and make them into a solid program.

We need to find a combination of late bloomers (see Ture Linden, who played 2 1/2 years for the Kent School and scored a whopping 3 goals) and solid players that come in just below the big guys' radar. Then we can even use the transfer portal to our advantage to take some skilled players that just didn't mesh as the hot shot kids at their prior schools (see Zieky, Chase and Walsh, TJ) but may blossom in a new environment. To add a non-RPI example, one of the best performers for Mankato last night was a kid named Silye, who went scoreless in 17 games for Clarkson last season. Sure we may lose some of the graduating juniors I wrote about earlier to the big guys, but if we build a winning program there will be less incentive for that to happen. It would also help if we don't have a repeat of a once in a century pandemic combined with a, hopefully, once in a millennium administration.

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 9 April 2022. There are 175 days (25 weeks) until RPI's next game. There are 83 days until RPI has a new president.


This is based upon 1 October 2022 for the start of next season and 1 July 2022 for the end of @#$%^.

[DrDemento]

Well Doc, I think we can still win under that system. A few years back some of the big boys tried to push through a change that would have reduced the eligibility threshold. Now you only lose time if you play juniors past your 21st birthday (and if IIRC you can even game that a little if they are enrolled in a CC so the player becomes a transfer using a redshirt year). They wanted to lower it. Watching Minnesota - Minnesota State last night the reason was clear - they don't want to see their prize 18 and 19 year old draft picks beaten by a well-coached team of older men. Not that we will be going back to the finals any time soon, but I happen to think that a guy like Coach Smith, whose teams play a pretty well structured game, is the kind that can take a group of mature, reasonably skilled players and make them into a solid program.

We need to find a combination of late bloomers (see Ture Linden, who played 2 1/2 years for the Kent School and scored a whopping 3 goals) and solid players that come in just below the big guys' radar. Then we can even use the transfer portal to our advantage to take some skilled players that just didn't mesh as the hot shot kids at their prior schools (see Zieky, Chase and Walsh, TJ) but may blossom in a new environment. To add a non-RPI example, one of the best performers for Mankato last night was a kid named Silye, who went scoreless in 17 games for Clarkson last season. Sure we may lose some of the graduating juniors I wrote about earlier to the big guys, but if we build a winning program there will be less incentive for that to happen. It would also help if we don't have a repeat of a once in a century pandemic combined with a, hopefully, once in a millennium administration.

Agree almost totally as I had before. I only differ with the last statement. There is not a doubt in my mind that we will be seeing far worse medical issues spreading world wide (whether they want to call them pandemics or epidemics). Rapid air travel around the world will insure that spread is rapid and almost impossible to stop. Lack of restrictive borders with careful testing of all (no exceptions) who attempt to enter a country will also make this so likely as to be impossible to control. There are diseases and vectors for diseases that will make this last episode seem more like a minor inconvenience. But I do agree that this was a once in a lifetime administration which should never be repeated. As far as the portal system, Pandora's box has been opened. The long term consequences of this will not be known for some time but my experience in life has taught me that rarely if ever to things go back to the way they were in the past. We have been a highly academic institution that happens to have a historic Division I hockey program as opposed to many others who are better described as a top tier hockey preparatory program for the professional leagues that just happen to also be attached to a college or university. I have great respect for all of the boys who have come to play and get an education at RPI and also think that coach Smith has shown that he is a great asset to the program. But I understanding that it will be extremely difficult (but not impossible) for our program to compete for chances to play against the big boys in the NCAA tournament (at least for the near future) and that the events of the past 3 years have added to that difficulty. My signature has said it all for 59 years - I do bleed RPI Red.

[Engineers]

If umass and AIC can turn their program around to competing in the tournament almost every year and winning national championships (umass) then RPI can do the same. You need everyone buying in from the top down. We never had that obviously with saj. If we had the support the program deserves it would be a different story. Hopefully the new president understands how important RPI hockey is to the campus and community.

[jericho]

So I was thinking, with the potential of Utica going DI. Would the ECAC expand? Of course, to make the travel partner system work you'd want to take 2, so do you take Utica and RIT and either the travel partner pairing would be Utica/Colgate and Cornell/RIT or do you take Utica/RIT and LIU? The latter would make it tough for travel partners, but it could be done. In this scenario, maybe the travel partners are Clarkson/SLU, Harvard/Dartmouth, Brown/Yale, Princeton/LIU, Quinnipiac/RPI, Union/Cornell or RIT or Utica; Colgate/Cornell or RIT or Utica.

There wouldn't really be very many outliers with those travel partners in the second scenario. RPI/Quinnipiac is only 2:20 minutes. Union/RIT is 3:09. I do think taking Utica and LIU would be the best choice geographically, and would keep the travel partner integrity. It would also open up two more spots for Atlantic Hockey to take two teams.

[RPI67]

So I was thinking, with the potential of Utica going DI. Would the ECAC expand? Of course, to make the travel partner system work you'd want to take 2, so do you take Utica and RIT and either the travel partner pairing would be Utica/Colgate and Cornell/RIT or do you take Utica/RIT and LIU? The latter would make it tough for travel partners, but it could be done. In this scenario, maybe the travel partners are Clarkson/SLU, Harvard/Dartmouth, Brown/Yale, Princeton/LIU, Quinnipiac/RPI, Union/Cornell or RIT or Utica; Colgate/Cornell or RIT or Utica.

There wouldn't really be very many outliers with those travel partners in the second scenario. RPI/Quinnipiac is only 2:20 minutes. Union/RIT is 3:09. I do think taking Utica and LIU would be the best choice geographically, and would keep the travel partner integrity. It would also open up two more spots for Atlantic Hockey to take two teams.

I'd rather keep the ECAC as it is with the caliber of schools. No need to give the IVYs a reason to split.

[DavidNardolillo]

I'd rather keep the ECAC as it is with the caliber of schools. No need to give the IVYs a reason to split.

Agree. I also think Utica would not be first on the list of potential adds anyway, despite the fan support the program enjoys. I think the only reason you'll see a new team in the ECAC is if one of the current members leaves--ECAC really doesn't need more than 12 teams.

[DavidNardolillo]

It galls me to even think that we have become a second tier hockey program that is being used as a training ground for some of the perennial top tier schools. I hope this is not now true and does not become so.

It depends on how you define "first tier", but RPI's W/L record over the last 20 seasons is well below .500, and 10 of those seasons had over 20 losses. RPI is a good program that graduates a lot of kids, and in most seasons is competitive (if not ultimately successful) but it is clear it has been off the business end of the post-season scene for a while now.

[rpi82]

From my nephew at the game tonight:

[Ralph Baer]

Today is 10 April 2022. There are 174 days until RPI's next game. There are 82 days until RPI has a new president.


This is based upon 1 October 2022 for the start of next season and 1 July 2022 for the end of @#$%^.